Question:

Well said Richard Cheri

<snipped> – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->In the midst of one particularly nasty flame war, one little obnoxious >pimple arose … much like you:  an accomplished shit stirrer with no >other agenda than to create stink.  One of our members, an elder >statesman of the group as it were, finally pulled it all into >perspective.  He addressed the pimple, and said, simply: >"fuck off, turdboy" ™ >What else is there to say, really?  So Joe, I say to you:  fuck off, >turdboy. >Richard >(tm) Jeff Tiedrich, 1997 or thereabouts

Response:

> "fuck off, turdboy" ™ > What else is there to say, really?  So Joe, I say to you:  fuck off, > turdboy.

Lol, had to say that while I was eating brekky

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Halflike I stumbled on asd by accdident and when i said h, I was >welcomeed with open eyes,  I dnt read peoples tag liens.  If somene is >offended by mine that is there problem,   >Good attitude! >As to the wisdom ot it, it is >my wisdom and that I live with my conscience and thereforem as long as I >feel I am doing rignt in my heart, then I know I am doing right. >I welcome all new people and constantly asj lurkers to come out wherever >they are.  Forgetting the garbage of the trolls, this group is >supportive as evidenced in all the troll attak and it is full of >information for all who want it,  I hope I contribute to that info but I >know my strong point is support. >Please come in and learn how to deal and handle this disease.  Perhaps >we can help control your diabetes becausew we cannot control trolls and >the hate they spew. >Fine sentiments, spoiled by an aggressive banner that screams "This is >a Jewish/American clique, enter at your own peril" >jl

That might be the case if EVERYONE in here sported that message.  But it is just ONE person!  Other people quote Monty Python, David Letterman,  some one was quoting Descartes and even Dave Berry, we have had John Denver quoted.  I seem to remember someone putting up a quote which was a clear poke of fun at a former vice president.   You are dramatizing this fully out of proportion. Do you go to a buffet and throw a snickey because they put ham on a buffet and there might be muslims present?  PULEEEEZE

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >In another short word. Baloney!!!! Sort of a far fetched assumption over a >simple sig line, don’t you think? >Cheri ><snipped> >Fine sentiments, spoiled by an aggressive banner that screams "This is >a Jewish/American clique, enter at your own peril" >jl

No, it’s how many non-Americans will see this. I’m trying to think of an illustration about lurking in a foreign group, and wanting to break the ice and ask a question, but this sig line keeps popping up everywhere saying that this group is somehow not welcoming of outsiders. That’s not quite right. Say I was fluent in Indonesian, and I tried to join an RI group but there was this message about Australia helping free East Timor. Maybe I would have second thoughts about asking a question. Of course none of these examples come close because this situation is unique. But I hope you can imagine how many foreigners might see this sig. I also wonder what the intent of posting it is. What is Loretta wanting to say to the rest of the World? jl

Response:

What is Loretta > wanting to say to the rest of the World? > jl

Loretta is saying she is Proud to be an American and of Jewish decent. Are you not proud of your heritage? I know I am proud of mine which is Cherokee/Irish/English and since I am a Child of God that makes me a little of Jewish decent too, and I am very proud of that. Have a good day and God Bless Diana

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >Halflike I stumbled on asd by accdident and when i said h, I was > >welcomeed with open eyes,  I dnt read peoples tag liens.  If somene is > >offended by mine that is there problem, > Good attitude! > >As to the wisdom ot it, it is > >my wisdom and that I live with my conscience and thereforem as long as I > >feel I am doing rignt in my heart, then I know I am doing right. > >I welcome all new people and constantly asj lurkers to come out wherever > >they are.  Forgetting the garbage of the trolls, this group is > >supportive as evidenced in all the troll attak and it is full of > >information for all who want it,  I hope I contribute to that info but I > >know my strong point is support. > >Please come in and learn how to deal and handle this disease.  Perhaps > >we can help control your diabetes becausew we cannot control trolls and > >the hate they spew. > Fine sentiments, spoiled by an aggressive banner that screams "This is > a Jewish/American clique, enter at your own peril" > jl >What an accomplished shit-stirrer you are!  I suspect that you just like >the smell.  Not what I would wish to be known for, but everyone has >their talents I suppose, and this one appears to be yours.  

If the shit wasn’t supplied, I wouldn’t have anything to stir. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I used to frequent another group, where occasionally some protracted >argument would break out, as has happened here.  Inevitably, there would >be those who would attempt reason, forgetting that reasoning with a >troll is like fighting for peace.  Others would attempt persuasion, or >appeal to emotion, and so forth. >All of it was for naught.  There is no reasoning or persuasion with your >sort of ilk.  It is a complete waste of time.  Ignoring it is best, but >that obviously hasn’t worked out. >In the midst of one particularly nasty flame war, one little obnoxious >pimple arose … much like you:  an accomplished shit stirrer with no >other agenda than to create stink.  One of our members, an elder >statesman of the group as it were, finally pulled it all into >perspective.  He addressed the pimple, and said, simply: >"fuck off, turdboy" ™ >What else is there to say, really?  So Joe, I say to you:  fuck off, >turdboy. >Richard >(tm) Jeff Tiedrich, 1997 or thereabouts

Offensive insult noted. Your reasoning is overwhelming. Why do you keep responding to me, I wonder, do you like the smell of the shit I’m accused of stirring? jl

Response:

> Offensive insult noted. Your reasoning is overwhelming. > Why do you keep responding to me, I wonder, do you like the smell of > the shit I’m accused of stirring? > jl

Actually no. He is the tidy bowl man. Diana — In tribute to the United States of America and the State of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and terrorism

Response:

>> Why do you keep responding to me, I wonder, do you like the smell of > the shit I’m accused of stirring? > jl >Actually no. He is the tidy bowl man. >Diana

LMAO!!!!!  Like, would someone please FLUSH already?!?!?!? Bev Remove the "SpamFree" for email, please.  

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My best guess is she is wanting to say exactly what her sig line says.  "In tribute to the United States of America and the State   of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and   terrorism." I personally agree with her sig line, but even if I didn’t, I wouldn’t take her to task for her beliefs. I am proud to be an American, and I’ll be damned if I will apologize to you, or any other country in the world, for being proud of who and what I am. If it offends you, and the rest of the world, tough! Cheri – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >I also wonder what the intent of posting it is. What is Loretta >wanting to say to the rest of the World? >jl

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> >What an accomplished shit-stirrer you are!  I suspect that you just like >the smell.  Not what I would wish to be known for, but everyone has >their talents I suppose, and this one appears to be yours. > If the shit wasn’t supplied, I wouldn’t have anything to stir.

Geez, not so long ago (in the early days of your intro to usenet) you said if you see a dog turd you go round it.  Are there different types of shit? One that begs to be stirred and one that you step around?

Response:

In another short word. Baloney!!!! Sort of a far fetched assumption over a simple sig line, don’t you think? Cheri

<snipped> – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Fine sentiments, spoiled by an aggressive banner that screams "This is >a Jewish/American clique, enter at your own peril" >jl

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Halflike I stumbled on asd by accdident and when i said h, I was >welcomeed with open eyes,  I dnt read peoples tag liens.  If somene is >offended by mine that is there problem, > Good attitude! >As to the wisdom ot it, it is >my wisdom and that I live with my conscience and thereforem as long as I >feel I am doing rignt in my heart, then I know I am doing right. >I welcome all new people and constantly asj lurkers to come out wherever >they are.  Forgetting the garbage of the trolls, this group is >supportive as evidenced in all the troll attak and it is full of >information for all who want it,  I hope I contribute to that info but I >know my strong point is support. >Please come in and learn how to deal and handle this disease.  Perhaps >we can help control your diabetes becausew we cannot control trolls and >the hate they spew. > Fine sentiments, spoiled by an aggressive banner that screams "This is > a Jewish/American clique, enter at your own peril" > jl

What an accomplished shit-stirrer you are!  I suspect that you just like the smell.  Not what I would wish to be known for, but everyone has their talents I suppose, and this one appears to be yours.   I used to frequent another group, where occasionally some protracted argument would break out, as has happened here.  Inevitably, there would be those who would attempt reason, forgetting that reasoning with a troll is like fighting for peace.  Others would attempt persuasion, or appeal to emotion, and so forth. All of it was for naught.  There is no reasoning or persuasion with your sort of ilk.  It is a complete waste of time.  Ignoring it is best, but that obviously hasn’t worked out. In the midst of one particularly nasty flame war, one little obnoxious pimple arose … much like you:  an accomplished shit stirrer with no other agenda than to create stink.  One of our members, an elder statesman of the group as it were, finally pulled it all into perspective.  He addressed the pimple, and said, simply: "fuck off, turdboy" ™ What else is there to say, really?  So Joe, I say to you:  fuck off, turdboy. Richard ™ Jeff Tiedrich, 1997 or thereabouts

Response:

Please, if the argument must go on, keep it confined to the big argument thread.  Please.

Response:

Halflike I stumbled on asd by accdident and when i said h, I was welcomeed with open eyes,  I dnt read peoples tag liens.  If somene is offended by mine that is there problem,  As to the wisdom ot it, it is my wisdom and that I live with my conscience and thereforem as long as I feel I am doing rignt in my heart, then I know I am doing right. I welcome all new people and constantly asj lurkers to come out wherever they are.  Forgetting the garbage of the trolls, this group is supportive as evidenced in all the troll attak and it is full of information for all who want it,  I hope I contribute to that info but I know my strong point is support. Please come in and learn how to deal and handle this disease.  Perhaps we can help control your diabetes becausew we cannot control trolls and the hate they spew. Loretta >>>>>>I want to throw out the welcome mat to *all* lurkers here. Please

ignore the very unusual (for this group) tirades going on at the moment. They will pass. If you are under the grips of diabetes, and want to share and learn, we will help you. All of us. In tribute to the United States of America and the State of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and terrorism.

Response:

>>>>I admire those with strong convictions.  What I don’t admire is those >>>who think that only *their* conviction deserves air time. > Like Loretta with her sig? >Not at all, you can have your own sig as well.

But I don’t think an inflammatory sig is netiquette in a group like this. Why would I want one? >>I haven’t seen that Loretta or anyone else here (excluding obvious >>trolls) that has demonstrated such a stance. > Repeatedly waving the provcative lie in that sig? >A sig is repeated in every post. If you don’t wish to see it don’t read >her posts.

But I’m worried about scaring off folk who might be intimidated by such sabre rattling "placards" on a support group >>Loretta’s sig line states her support for the USA and Israel, nothing >>more. > You’re blind, then. >And you are an asshole.

Your gratuitous insult is noted. Thankyou. > Do you want a sig?  fine… Otherwise understand >everyone has an opinion and the right to post it as long as their ISP >finds it within their TOS.

Well maybe they don’t. Can you imagine what a Palestinian diabetic might think about posting here when that is flaunted every day? >>She does not wish violence or terrorism on anyone, quite the opposite, >>actually. > Well she has said if she could kill people like that, she would. But the > sig is an aggressive threat to anyone who has been persecuted and > displaced and otherwise hurt by this bullying duumvirate. Why must it be > flaunted here? Move it to a suitable venue and argue its merits all you > like. >For the same reason you can flaunt your shit here. It is USENET, if you >don’t like the medium don’t use it.

I don’t think anyone should "flaunt their shit" as you so quaintly put it on a support newsgroup. Consideration for everyone should be the maxim. jl

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>Halflike I stumbled on asd by accdident and when i said h, I was >welcomeed with open eyes,  I dnt read peoples tag liens.  If somene is >offended by mine that is there problem,  

Good attitude! >As to the wisdom ot it, it is >my wisdom and that I live with my conscience and thereforem as long as I >feel I am doing rignt in my heart, then I know I am doing right. >I welcome all new people and constantly asj lurkers to come out wherever >they are.  Forgetting the garbage of the trolls, this group is >supportive as evidenced in all the troll attak and it is full of >information for all who want it,  I hope I contribute to that info but I >know my strong point is support. >Please come in and learn how to deal and handle this disease.  Perhaps >we can help control your diabetes becausew we cannot control trolls and >the hate they spew.

Fine sentiments, spoiled by an aggressive banner that screams "This is a Jewish/American clique, enter at your own peril" jl

Response:

>>>I admire those with strong convictions.  What I don’t admire is those >>who think that only *their* conviction deserves air time. > Like Loretta with her sig?

Not at all, you can have your own sig as well. >I haven’t seen that Loretta or anyone else here (excluding obvious >trolls) that has demonstrated such a stance. > Repeatedly waving the provcative lie in that sig?

A sig is repeated in every post. If you don’t wish to see it don’t read her posts. >Loretta’s sig line states her support for the USA and Israel, nothing >more. > You’re blind, then.

And you are an asshole.  Do you want a sig?  fine… Otherwise understand everyone has an opinion and the right to post it as long as their ISP finds it within their TOS. >She does not wish violence or terrorism on anyone, quite the opposite, >actually. > Well she has said if she could kill people like that, she would. But the > sig is an aggressive threat to anyone who has been persecuted and > displaced and otherwise hurt by this bullying duumvirate. Why must it be > flaunted here? Move it to a suitable venue and argue its merits all you > like.

For the same reason you can flaunt your shit here. It is USENET, if you don’t like the medium don’t use it.

Response:

> What concerns me is wondering how this all affects lurkers and those > who might want to delurk and ask questions.  After reading those posts > today I had to ask myself, "how would I feel if I was a secular > Palestinian engineer with diabetes instead of a secular American > engineer with diabetes?  After reading the diatribes in that thread, > would I feel welcome to delurk and ask some questions?

George, This is not the first time and I doubt it will be the last.  As I said to Loretta, whenever a strong opinion regarding politics or religion  or nationality, that is merely an invite to all those with opposing views to object. I admire those with strong convictions.  What I don’t admire is those who think that only *their* conviction deserves air time.  This then becomes a form of censorship.  I’ve seen that happen in newsgroups and forums as well. — Marilyn Who usually never reads sig lines once she knows the person

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>I admire those with strong convictions.  What I don’t admire is those who >think that only *their* conviction deserves air time.

I haven’t seen that Loretta or anyone else here (excluding obvious trolls) that has demonstrated such a stance. Loretta’s sig line states her support for the USA and Israel, nothing more. She does not wish violence or terrorism on anyone, quite the opposite, actually. I generally pay very little attention to sig lines.  However, when someone posts a sig line that invokes violence or glorifies terrorisem upon ANYONE, it should be addressed. I’m really getting sick of Loretta’s tag line being made out to be evil and inflammatory.  It’s neither.  And putting it in the same category as some of the "responding" sig lines is absurd. I don’t like censorship.  I also don’t like threats of violence and people who seek to invoke fear and create a climate of hate with their words.  It’s easy to determine from the posts of both sides over these months who falls where. Bev Remove the "SpamFree" for email, please.  

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>>I admire those with strong convictions.  What I don’t admire is those who >think that only *their* conviction deserves air time.

Like Loretta with her sig? >I haven’t seen that Loretta or anyone else here (excluding obvious trolls) that >has demonstrated such a stance.

Repeatedly waving the provcative lie in that sig? >Loretta’s sig line states her support for the USA and Israel, nothing more.

You’re blind, then. >She does not wish violence or terrorism on anyone, quite the opposite, >actually.

Well she has said if she could kill people like that, she would. But the sig is an aggressive threat to anyone who has been persecuted and displaced and otherwise hurt by this bullying duumvirate. Why must it be flaunted here? Move it to a suitable venue and argue its merits all you like. >I generally pay very little attention to sig lines.  

I pay attention to the novel and humorous. The obnoxious I comment about. As apparently do many others. >However, when someone >posts a sig line that invokes violence or glorifies terrorisem upon ANYONE, it >should be addressed.

This sig can be seen by many to do just that. That is my point. >I’m really getting sick of Loretta’s tag line being made out to be evil and >inflammatory.  It’s neither.  

In your opinion, but in the opinion of many others, it is most inflammatory. >And putting it in the same category as some of >the "responding" sig lines is absurd.

Haven’t seen any responding sig lines. >I don’t like censorship.  I also don’t like threats of violence and people who >seek to invoke fear and create a climate of hate with their words.  It’s easy >to determine from the posts of both sides over these months who falls where.

Well lets examine Loretta’s sig line, if you insist. "In tribute to the United States of America and the State of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and terrorism." As these two states are amongst the most violent, war-mongering, terrorist states on the face of the Earth today, it seems curious to see the two linked together seeing that the bigger one massively subsidises the smaller in aid and weapons of mass destruction. The signal that its constant parading on this forum and wherever else it is crossposted says, to many people of the Muslim faith (nearly a quarter of the World’s population) is that they may be persecuted by the American/Israel machine, and labeled as possible enemies — as so many have already suffered. I believe netiquette demands that it not be used in this international forum. What would be wrong with something along the lines of "In memory of the many innocent lives lost on September 11, WTC,  RIP" The other is just sabre-rattling in the eyes of so many. jl

Response:

I’ve been watching for 5 years or so and learning and skipping lots of the "OTs" and "anti-spam" (plus anti-anti-spammers" vitriol.  Also skip lots of insulin/needle info as it doesn’t apply to me.   I really doubt that most diabetics, intelligent enough to want to learn, would be stopped by one person’s signature slogan or another person’s objection to it.   Quite correct Richard. Nan Type 2

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Guy probably said it best some time back, and I am gonna paraphrase it > very roughly, but here was the idea:  Some topics in a group like this > are, by their very nature, divisive.  It is best to recognize that and > avoid those topics, because they have the potential to rip apart the > supportive fabric of the group.  Of course, not many folks paid much > attention to him. > Richard > Ever since joining this group a few months ago I have been impressed > with how we all throw out the welcome mat for any new posters (often, > long time lurkers) who come in to contribute about diabetes and ask > sincere questions about their (our) disease.  I posted about this a > few weeks ago. > I have to say that today, I am disappointed. > I personally am almost 100% immune to advertising (websites, print, > TV, you name it), and after nearly two decades on usenet, basically > 100% immune to sigs.  I just don’t see them, anymore than I see the > adverts on cnn.com. > But now, with all of this rage going on in the thread about Loretta’s > sigs I am disconcerted.  Not about anybody’s particular political > views as they have nothing to do with the care and treatment of our > disease. > What concerns me is wondering how this all affects lurkers and those > who might want to delurk and ask questions.  After reading those posts > today I had to ask myself, "how would I feel if I was a secular > Palestinian engineer with diabetes instead of a secular American > engineer with diabetes?  After reading the diatribes in that thread, > would I feel welcome to delurk and ask some questions? > It is not Loretta’s sig that bothers me (although now  I question the > wisdom of it) as I know her to be compassionate in the extreme.  It is > the virulence of the posts.  Despite the clear lack of tact on the > part of the original poster, one would have to be in pretty heavy > denial to say that there is not a great deal of nationalistic fervor > and emotion getting in the mix. > Diabetes is an indiscriminate murderer.  It is a terrorist of the > worst, silent, deadliest kind.  It couldn’t care less if you are > Turkish, Chinese, American, Jewish or Palestinian.  If it has you by > the short hairs, and if you don’t fight back, it will murder you in > cold blood. > I want to throw out the welcome mat to *all* lurkers here.  Please > ignore the very unusual (for this group) tirades going on at the > moment.  They will pass.  If you are under the grips of diabetes, and > want to share and learn, we will help you.  All of us.

Well said Halflife, I for one have read the differant posts and ignore the ones that have political overtones. They don’t bother me "click". I was diag. Dec. 2000 and if were not for this group for support I would have went bonkers.  There is so much to learn and every day there is something new. When the chips were down and I was getting rather worried, everyone here gave their whole hearted support. This is a very nice group and we all get carried away with our emotions at times.  Welcome to the lurkers and new diabetics. We are all here at differant stages of this desease. Ira Metformin 500mg twice a day and in control.

Response:

>  nd emotion getting in the mix. > Diabetes is an indiscriminate murderer.  It is a terrorist of the > worst, silent, deadliest kind.  It couldn’t care less if you are > Turkish, Chinese, American, Jewish or Palestinian.  If it has you by > the short hairs, and if you don’t fight back, it will murder you in > cold blood.

Excellent! > I want to throw out the welcome mat to *all* lurkers here.  Please > ignore the very unusual (for this group) tirades going on at the > moment.  They will pass.  If you are under the grips of diabetes, and > want to share and learn, we will help you.  All of us.

They will, pass. — Dave – 1:41:51 PM T2 – 8/98 Glucophage, U & H A 4th generation Diabetic Visit: http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org – Davors Daily Aphorism: A library is an arsenal of liberty. — —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

Guy probably said it best some time back, and I am gonna paraphrase it very roughly, but here was the idea:  Some topics in a group like this are, by their very nature, divisive.  It is best to recognize that and avoid those topics, because they have the potential to rip apart the supportive fabric of the group.  Of course, not many folks paid much attention to him. Richard – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Ever since joining this group a few months ago I have been impressed > with how we all throw out the welcome mat for any new posters (often, > long time lurkers) who come in to contribute about diabetes and ask > sincere questions about their (our) disease.  I posted about this a > few weeks ago. > I have to say that today, I am disappointed. > I personally am almost 100% immune to advertising (websites, print, > TV, you name it), and after nearly two decades on usenet, basically > 100% immune to sigs.  I just don’t see them, anymore than I see the > adverts on cnn.com. > But now, with all of this rage going on in the thread about Loretta’s > sigs I am disconcerted.  Not about anybody’s particular political > views as they have nothing to do with the care and treatment of our > disease. > What concerns me is wondering how this all affects lurkers and those > who might want to delurk and ask questions.  After reading those posts > today I had to ask myself, "how would I feel if I was a secular > Palestinian engineer with diabetes instead of a secular American > engineer with diabetes?  After reading the diatribes in that thread, > would I feel welcome to delurk and ask some questions? > It is not Loretta’s sig that bothers me (although now  I question the > wisdom of it) as I know her to be compassionate in the extreme.  It is > the virulence of the posts.  Despite the clear lack of tact on the > part of the original poster, one would have to be in pretty heavy > denial to say that there is not a great deal of nationalistic fervor > and emotion getting in the mix. > Diabetes is an indiscriminate murderer.  It is a terrorist of the > worst, silent, deadliest kind.  It couldn’t care less if you are > Turkish, Chinese, American, Jewish or Palestinian.  If it has you by > the short hairs, and if you don’t fight back, it will murder you in > cold blood. > I want to throw out the welcome mat to *all* lurkers here.  Please > ignore the very unusual (for this group) tirades going on at the > moment.  They will pass.  If you are under the grips of diabetes, and > want to share and learn, we will help you.  All of us.

Response:

Ever since joining this group a few months ago I have been impressed with how we all throw out the welcome mat for any new posters (often, long time lurkers) who come in to contribute about diabetes and ask sincere questions about their (our) disease.  I posted about this a few weeks ago. I have to say that today, I am disappointed. I personally am almost 100% immune to advertising (websites, print, TV, you name it), and after nearly two decades on usenet, basically 100% immune to sigs.  I just don’t see them, anymore than I see the adverts on cnn.com.   But now, with all of this rage going on in the thread about Loretta’s sigs I am disconcerted.  Not about anybody’s particular political views as they have nothing to do with the care and treatment of our disease. What concerns me is wondering how this all affects lurkers and those who might want to delurk and ask questions.  After reading those posts today I had to ask myself, "how would I feel if I was a secular Palestinian engineer with diabetes instead of a secular American engineer with diabetes?  After reading the diatribes in that thread, would I feel welcome to delurk and ask some questions? It is not Loretta’s sig that bothers me (although now  I question the wisdom of it) as I know her to be compassionate in the extreme.  It is the virulence of the posts.  Despite the clear lack of tact on the part of the original poster, one would have to be in pretty heavy denial to say that there is not a great deal of nationalistic fervor and emotion getting in the mix. Diabetes is an indiscriminate murderer.  It is a terrorist of the worst, silent, deadliest kind.  It couldn’t care less if you are Turkish, Chinese, American, Jewish or Palestinian.  If it has you by the short hairs, and if you don’t fight back, it will murder you in cold blood. I want to throw out the welcome mat to *all* lurkers here.  Please ignore the very unusual (for this group) tirades going on at the moment.  They will pass.  If you are under the grips of diabetes, and want to share and learn, we will help you.  All of us.

Response: