Question:

Q – I’ve read all the responses to you, and I know it’s exactly what you don’t want to hear… but you do have to seek medical attention. The one thing no one has asked you is:  What are you doing to get insurance? You say you won’t be dx’d until you have it… so what is your plan for getting some? What steps have you taken? Where have you sought help? What programs have you looked into? You can and must be proactive on this matter.  You have to fight for yourself and your health the way you would for someone you loved.  You have to make calls and research on the net to find out all your insurance options.   And you have to do it now. So.  What will you do? And what can we do to help? Jennifer

Response:

> You don’t get it > he HAS to see a doctor > There are NO excuses

I didn’t think I was making excuses … but that could be a matter of opinion or point of view. as is the line just above, however coercive it appears to me. > I am not about to give any advice to anyone who won’t seek medical > advice.

"won’t seek medical advice" ??? Would you please not make false conclusions on my behalf? Do you ever get even the slightest bit uncomfortable when you encroach on other people’s autonomy? > Unlike you Brits, LOTS of us in the US do not have insurance – it is > expensive to see a doctor, and we may have trouble paying for it.

Thank you for understanding. > BUT, he has to.  cutting out the crap he is scarfing down would help pay > for it.

"crap he is scarfing down" ??? Read it again … not IS but WAS, I quote: "stopped now" … Disregarding the negatively connoted semantically loaded: "scarfing  down" and "crap"  - Logic won’t support your statement. My existing supplies were purchased long before I had a clue about having diabetes. Stores don’t take back opened bottles, so there is no way to "help pay for it." by cutting out the crap. Thanks again for the understanding Quirque whoever takes umbrage when none was intended … is a fool. whoever takes umbrage when it was intended … is a STUPID fool. (just my opinion)

Response:

> I guess what would irritate most americans if they knew about it was > that you almost had an "NHS" style system very similar to what we > have here but it fell foul of the political system at the time, i > think it was bush senior who poopooed the idea.

Actually, universal health care was one of the coverages that was to be enacted by the Social Security Act on August 14, 1935 during the first term of FDR. There is very little new under the sun. Regards, James the Elder PS: Folks, try to be more attentive to TRIMMING posts you reply to!

Response:

Snipped just for ya I guess if you stick around long enough everything new is just something old given new clothes, a kick around the spin factory and marketed as the latest and greatest way of doing  things ….. I still think that anyone in any country is entitiled to basic medical care provided for by the state.

Response:

here is a link to the american diabetes associations web site. http://www.diabetes.org/homepage.jsp

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I waded thru all the postings that my server had stored for AHD and ASD and > MHD … close to 2000 … mostly from ASD … took me 4 days, almost > nonstop, sticks about every 2 hrs, eating something as often  ,,, was like > being inside a cross between a cloths dryer and a kaleidoscope !!! I’m spin > dizzy and comfrused. > I hope it is OK to post this to all three (this one time) … As I will > probably lurk in all of them. I don’t plan on revealing much about myself as > I am very poor, have not been diagnosed, and do not want to be diagnosed > until I can find some insurance. (and if I have learned anything from the > past 4 days about SOME of the people in here … what I just said is enough > to start a Dresden style fire storm along the lines of YOU MUST GO TO A > DOC… etc;.) Before you even start … > (1) Do try to have some compassion for a unique individual, (me), and even > though I may be totally misguided … YOU do NOT have the RIGHT to dictate > to me … so unless you believe in coercion … please don’t tell me that I > SHOULD or MUST or OUGHT etc. to do ‘this’ or ‘that’ … I will NOT respond > … If you try too hard … I will tell NewsRover to block you without even > informing you. I DO respond to logical argument and reasoning and gentle > persuasion, when I perceive it is done with caring/affection/concern/love > AND it meshes with MY conscience. > BTW: (a quick aside) Lord Acton coined a Diction, which I rewrote (I’m a > ghost and technical writer, freelance, and need more work, so …. please > … ) … anyhow the revised version goes like this: The FALSE belief that > one person can or does have POWER over another person or persons … > CORRUPTS the person holding said belief … And, if said belief includes > ABSOLUTE POWER, its holder IS CORRUPTED ABSOLUTELY !!! > (2) Do respect my privacy, as if it were you own most heart held possession. > I have no idea what you all can find out about me, (but I have a clue from > some of your anti-spammers’ recent posts) … I haven’t the skill to even > try to hide or confuse what my OS (win98) or news reader (NewsRover) makes > available to you. So I just have to trust you from the get-go, I hope you’re > up to it. > I know that almost all of the above is ‘ground rules’ instead of ‘on topic’ > … but I HAD to say it (I am scared, vulnerable, confused and alone except > for my cat) … NOW: do I understand correctly that questions of a > medical/tech nature should be made to AHD and supportive/social items should > be posted to ASD ??? Then what’s to be posted to MHD? > My sister is type 2, 10 days ago, she fed me lavishly, I downed about 3 > cokes, ice cream sandwiches for desert… the about an hour later said "I > think you are diabetic, here, let me test you." Worst part was she had to > explain a lot of things, especially what 475 mg/dL means and what normal is > supposed to be. Honestly, I didn’t go into denial, but I did pull my head in > and re-evaluate REALITY and incidentally myself image for several days. > I am male, 54′, 260 lbs, Caucasian (is race a factor? – there: my first > question), after that first stick I’ve had a low reading of 145 once (it had > to be false … I’ve since learned that squeezing the finger tip to get the > blood out puts out more plasma and gives false low reading) and a high of > 375. in the last 18 hrs: 269, 281, 294, 364, 335, 294, 248, 231, & 240. > yesterday a high of 338 2 hrs after breakfast, and a low of 221 before > dinner, the rest all over in between (ave 260) … the 3 days before > slightly higher but getting generally lower, with some spikes. about 8+ > sticks a day. eat a little of this … see what happens … eat a little of > that … see what happens … try to keep each 2 hr meal under about 15 > carbs, no raw sugars/starches, up to about 200 calories (x12/day = about > 2400+/-) reading a lot of labels and looking a lot of things up. my #s > indicate to me that I’m in serious trouble and I hope and pray that I got > the wake up call in time. > passing no ketones, but passing 100-1000 mg/dL glucose about 6 times a day > (no pattern to the up/down). I have always drank at least a gallon of water > a day, do a pass a lot of water. I don’t seem to be particularly continually > thirsty … tested that … lots of saliva after 6 hours with no liquid. > Switched to weak Lipton green tea with 1oz lemon juice per 1/2 gal (that’s > my drinking jug size), no sweetener/no sugar, (conscience or intuition and > slim facts moved me to this switch to green tea as a > antioxidant/diuretic/purgative??? I’ll try it for a while, unless you all > give me reason otherwise)… does anybody know if Lipton green tea has > caffeine? how much? (would check with Lipton if was day) (is caffeine > contraindicated?) > have been taking wide and detailed vitamins, minerals, and herbals every day > for almost ever (several months at a time, skip a month ( reality check ), > go at it again … ) stopped now to eliminate any effect they may have been > having (one was ginseng, and a little of EVERYTHING conceivable else, but > not an excessive amount of anything) … > BP mid 130s over mid 80s almost al the time, been that way since I was 19 > and in college … at that time was diagnosed (unofficially) hypoglycemia > after a 4 hr glucose tolerance test. not severe, friend doc said eat every 3 > hours until I started registering hunger on a regular basis. bought a alarm > wrist watch and ate every 3 hrs for couple of years. gradually lost interest > as all seemed normal. night sweats mild and seldom … > have mild sleeping apnea … better since I quit smoking about 3 months ago > … cold turkey … had been smoking slightly less than a pack a day of > ultra lights for about 25 yrs. > minor itching in between toes and bottom of toes and balls of feet … using > Micatin and Scholl foot powder to eliminate the possibility of it being > athelete’s foot ( I hope it is ). will know in another 2 weeks according to > the directions. > no change in vision in years, far sighted slightly, not quite mild > astigmatism almost vertical axis (from reading in the dark as a kid, I’m > told ???), > Last full physical about 3 yrs ago was told all well except what I was doing > to myself : A. lose weight (285 at that time), B. stop smoking, C. exercise. > Now (started a week ago) 15 minutes a day on a stair stepper (make sure Bg > is less that 300) reasonable starting workout, sweat at 5 min. winded at 15. > will work it up to 30 min 6 days/week. and  now at lowest toughness level of > 3 will wind up at toughest level and max min in about 6 months. > Only been testing daily and often since Bayer sent me a new meter which > arrived on the 17th. Sis had an old Bayer lancet machine and meter but the > meter didn’t work right and Bayer was nice enough to send me a new newer one > and instructions (sis didn’t have them) and a case and a box of disks and a > bag of lancets and calibrating solution. the latter three have not arrived > yet. So I am using disks (test strips) that are a year expired, but checking > against sis’s other type of meter with current strips seems to indicate that > I’m getting reasonably accurate readings. it will be nice to calibrate the > meter and run a current disk thru it. How I’m going to afford disks when I > run out I don’t know … but I will find a way !!! Yes, the 3 day rethink > exited with among other things RESOLVE.  And I acknowledge that I neeeed > help: at least information and ideas and options, and hopefully > acquaintances and friends. > Gotta plan on the exercise. Trying not to stress  (BP would indicate I’m > reasonably OK) I think that I am in glucose toxicity. I think that I need to > get my #s down to ?normal? or near, to get out of toxicity, so that the > numbers will mean something more real, so that I quit passing Gl. so that I > can get to a place where I can build a more permanent plan. Please correct > me if I’m wrong. Thoughts, questions, suggestions, comments welcome. Oh, > BTW, I’ve got thick skin literally and figuratively … sticks barely hurt > and I hope you can’t push any of my ‘emote’ buttons. > thanks in advance, > quique

Response:

I guess that’s the real issue, without knowing a little more about his circumstance and general location there isn’t much any of us can do except utter the usual phrases, and going to the doctors is always going to be foremost amongst them. I guess what would irritate most americans if they knew about it was that you almost had an "NHS" style system very similar to what we have here but it fell foul of the political system at the time, i think it was bush senior who poopooed the idea. Whilst i think our system has flaws, and i do agree that there should be private and public health care, i would not like to live in a place where the only treatment available was one i had to pay up front for. Patrick

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> There are a few important things. > I feel that it is important NOT to let someone think that they can treat > themselves without medical help. > ANY encouragement in that regard is dangerous. > With some medical advice (and someone who can write prescriptions) > treatment becomes the diabetics responsibility, and most of us here will > be overjoyed to try to help. > No amount of advice here is going to spot a macular bleed which can > steal his sight. > Advice here MAY spot kidney failure, but can’t do a whole lot about it. > With the exception of the few Endo’s one the group, none of us can > prescribe medicine (and they would not without seeing the person) > There are LOTS of good things we CAN do, including advice on how to save > money, and to minimize medical expense,  but a member of your team MUST > be a doctor if you want to live very long, and with any quality of life. > The situation in the US for us uninsured is very rough – we get charged > over twice as much as insurance companies pay for the same care.  Except > in true emergencies, we have to pay cash in advance before anyone will > see us, and it can be hard to find a doctor who will see you at all. > I sympathize with anyone who is TRYING to avoid going to a doctor.  It > may take 3-4 months to get an appointment, if you are not already a > patient, and you don’t have insurance.  THEN, it will cost at LEAST $150 > for a first visit, and you will have to argue with the doctor not to run > THOUSANDS of dollars in tests, and lots of revisits.  THEN you will get > a scrip for about $300+ per month in meds, and they will probably try to > get you to see a dietitian, Endo, Cardiologist, and Opthomologist.  No > wonder the poor guy doesn’t want to see a doctor. > BUT, with work and help, he CAN do better.  He will have to learn to say > the the hospitals "I am sorry, I am a self employed self pay, and I > can’t afford to pay much"  HARD to do, and many hospitals will NOT be > interested, but some may be very helpful. > I walked into a hospital once, for a necessary operation, and, after > admitting told me the cost, and asked for a check, I just went into > shock, and babbled something like "There seems to be a mistake, I don’t >   need that operation, sorry to take up your time"  The admitting clerk > wouldn’t let me leave, and called the surgeon.  She then said " I have a > special fund for uninsured diabetics, they will pay for it". > RARE, but it does happen, and you have to learn to swallow a little > pride and let them know. > He also has to learn to tell his doctor "How much does that drug cost – > is there a cheaper one" and "I can’t afford that, what other options do > I have" > If he is willing to say where he is.  Possibly some of us know about > some programs he can use. > I don’t have insurance either Ted, even though i am british. We have an > health system of sorts. I don’t think he was in any doubt as to whether he > should or should not see a doctor, he asked for advice and information first > and foremost which seems to be what he’s got. > As it happens, i think you’re right, and i guess that our friend knows we’re > all right as well in that he has to see a doctor.  That responsibility lies > with him, but in the meantime any help and advice we can offer is surely > worthwhile:) >>You don’t get it >>he HAS to see a doctor >>There are NO excuses >>I am not about to give any advice to anyone who won’t seek medical >>advice.  It is the same as malpractice. >>Unlike you brits, LOTS of us in the US do not have insurance – it is >>expensive to see a doctor, and we may have trouble paying for it. >>BUT, he has to.  cutting out the crap he is scarfing down would help pay >>for it. >>>Yeah but you must agree that he asked for help, he knows he needs to see > a >>>doctor, that wasn’t the issue that he asked for help with. I can > understand >>>that, and we know nothing of his background nor where he comes from > ……. >>>so that being the case, offering as much help as possible would seem to > be >>>the way forward >>>>It doesn’t matter >>>>If you wait till SOMEDAY >>>>then you die >>>>Almost NO ONE at his age can get or afford non-group insurance., and >>>>group insurance is not underwritten >>>>Why should he expect to get insurance tomorrow, and not today. >>>>>I get the impression that the reason he’s not done that is because he >>>needs >>>>>insurance to pay for the treatment, if you go to the doctor and get >>>>>diagnosed before you get insurance then you won’t get insurance, or not >>>at >>>>>the same price! However that doesn’t make it any less important that he >>>gets >>>>>to see a doctor as soon as he can. >>>>>>cc’d by email >>>>>>sigh >>>>>>You are on a newsgroup – you better get a little less shy if you want > to >>>>>>get the most out of it >>>>>>1) You HAVE to go to a doctor – no choice. >>>>>>a) check your local papers for ads for programs looking for diabetics >>>>>>to study – they will provide, at a minimum,  free medical visits and >>>labs >>>>>>b) Check your local health department and the local hospitals. >>>>>>SOMETIMES there are free, or very low cost diabetic screening > programs. >>>>>>c) look for both on the internet >>>>>>2) Stop wasting your money and endangering yourself with phony "herbs" >>>>>>and "supplements" You can NOT afford those scams, and, they are > usually >>>>>>bad for diabetics. >>>>>>3) After you get a prescription, either post on the NG, or email me >>>>>>privately.  I know LOTS of ways to get cheap or free meds. – you are > NOT >>>>>>the only uninsured person in the US. >>>>>>4) Good thing stopping smoking >>>>>>5) You HAVE to have regular eye exams, from an opthomologist – or, one >>>>>>day SOON you will wake up blind.  Again  there are lots of options > which >>>>>>might get you free, or reduced cost care. >>>>>>People who get flamed on the groups are people who come on to a >>>>>>newsgroup of long time diabetics and TELL us what WE should do, > because >>>>>>they (newbie, troll, scammers, or spammers) know EVERYTHING. (or want > to >>>>>>get rich off of us) >>>>>>People who try and learn will usually get a number of points of view > and >>>>>>possibly useful answers. >>>>>>We can be a bit rough – and you may run into trolls like the Chung, > the >>>>>>Watchtroll, or one of Momma Betty’s Aspartame trolls, and spammers > like >>>>>>herb pushers, BioDeath, Manatech, or their ilk – but they pass. But, > we >>>>>>hope you stay, and that we can be of help to you >>>>>>>I waded thru all the postings that my server had stored for AHD and > ASD >>>>>and >>>>>>>MHD … close to 2000 … mostly from ASD … took me 4 days, almost >>>>>>>nonstop, sticks about every 2 hrs, eating something as often  ,,, was >>>>>like >>>>>>>being inside a cross between a cloths dryer and a kaleidoscope !!! > I’m >>>>>spin >>>>>>>dizzy and comfrused. >>>>>>>I hope it is OK to post this to all three (this one time) … As I > will >>>>>>>probably lurk in all of them. I don’t plan on revealing much about >>>>>myself as >>>>>>>I am very poor, have not been diagnosed, and do not want to be >>>diagnosed >>>>>>>until I can find some insurance. (and if I have learned anything from >>>>>the >>>>>>>past 4 days about SOME of the people in here … what I just said is >>>>>enough >>>>>>>to start a Dresden style fire storm along the lines of YOU MUST GO TO > A >>>>>>>DOC… etc;.) Before you even start … >>>>>>>(1) Do try to have some compassion for a unique individual, (me), and >>>>>even >>>>>>>though I may be totally misguided … YOU do NOT have the RIGHT to >>>>>dictate >>>>>>>to me … so unless you believe in coercion … please don’t tell me >>>>>that I >>>>>>>SHOULD or MUST or OUGHT etc. to do ‘this’ or ‘that’ … I

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Response:

Ground rules??? you might want to rethink your attitude if you expect help from everyone here who has something to offer you.  Not everyone is going to handle you with kid gloves.  I certainly won’t.  I believe in "tough love" just like Dr. Phil.  If you don’t want help, don’t ask.  If you do, state your questions and sit back and wait for some answers. Threatening to silently plonk is rather juvenile.  Do you think we are all sitting at our pc’s quaking in fear?  If you want to plonk, be man enough to let the person know, so that they won’t waste time with you. dave

snip the ground rules…

Response:

There are a few important things. I feel that it is important NOT to let someone think that they can treat themselves without medical help. ANY encouragement in that regard is dangerous. With some medical advice (and someone who can write prescriptions) treatment becomes the diabetics responsibility, and most of us here will be overjoyed to try to help. No amount of advice here is going to spot a macular bleed which can steal his sight. Advice here MAY spot kidney failure, but can’t do a whole lot about it. With the exception of the few Endo’s one the group, none of us can prescribe medicine (and they would not without seeing the person) There are LOTS of good things we CAN do, including advice on how to save money, and to minimize medical expense,  but a member of your team MUST be a doctor if you want to live very long, and with any quality of life. The situation in the US for us uninsured is very rough – we get charged over twice as much as insurance companies pay for the same care.  Except in true emergencies, we have to pay cash in advance before anyone will see us, and it can be hard to find a doctor who will see you at all. I sympathize with anyone who is TRYING to avoid going to a doctor.  It may take 3-4 months to get an appointment, if you are not already a patient, and you don’t have insurance.  THEN, it will cost at LEAST $150 for a first visit, and you will have to argue with the doctor not to run THOUSANDS of dollars in tests, and lots of revisits.  THEN you will get a scrip for about $300+ per month in meds, and they will probably try to get you to see a dietitian, Endo, Cardiologist, and Opthomologist.  No wonder the poor guy doesn’t want to see a doctor. BUT, with work and help, he CAN do better.  He will have to learn to say the the hospitals "I am sorry, I am a self employed self pay, and I can’t afford to pay much"  HARD to do, and many hospitals will NOT be interested, but some may be very helpful. I walked into a hospital once, for a necessary operation, and, after admitting told me the cost, and asked for a check, I just went into shock, and babbled something like "There seems to be a mistake, I don’t   need that operation, sorry to take up your time"  The admitting clerk wouldn’t let me leave, and called the surgeon.  She then said " I have a special fund for uninsured diabetics, they will pay for it". RARE, but it does happen, and you have to learn to swallow a little pride and let them know. He also has to learn to tell his doctor "How much does that drug cost – is there a cheaper one" and "I can’t afford that, what other options do I have" If he is willing to say where he is.  Possibly some of us know about some programs he can use. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I don’t have insurance either Ted, even though i am british. We have an > health system of sorts. I don’t think he was in any doubt as to whether he > should or should not see a doctor, he asked for advice and information first > and foremost which seems to be what he’s got. > As it happens, i think you’re right, and i guess that our friend knows we’re > all right as well in that he has to see a doctor.  That responsibility lies > with him, but in the meantime any help and advice we can offer is surely > worthwhile:) >You don’t get it >he HAS to see a doctor >There are NO excuses >I am not about to give any advice to anyone who won’t seek medical >advice.  It is the same as malpractice. >Unlike you brits, LOTS of us in the US do not have insurance – it is >expensive to see a doctor, and we may have trouble paying for it. >BUT, he has to.  cutting out the crap he is scarfing down would help pay >for it. >>Yeah but you must agree that he asked for help, he knows he needs to see > a >>doctor, that wasn’t the issue that he asked for help with. I can > understand >>that, and we know nothing of his background nor where he comes from > ……. >>so that being the case, offering as much help as possible would seem to > be >>the way forward >>>It doesn’t matter >>>If you wait till SOMEDAY >>>then you die >>>Almost NO ONE at his age can get or afford non-group insurance., and >>>group insurance is not underwritten >>>Why should he expect to get insurance tomorrow, and not today. >>>>I get the impression that the reason he’s not done that is because he >>needs >>>>insurance to pay for the treatment, if you go to the doctor and get >>>>diagnosed before you get insurance then you won’t get insurance, or not >>at >>>>the same price! However that doesn’t make it any less important that he >>gets >>>>to see a doctor as soon as he can. >>>>>cc’d by email >>>>>sigh >>>>>You are on a newsgroup – you better get a little less shy if you want > to >>>>>get the most out of it >>>>>1) You HAVE to go to a doctor – no choice. >>>>>a) check your local papers for ads for programs looking for diabetics >>>>>to study – they will provide, at a minimum,  free medical visits and >>labs >>>>>b) Check your local health department and the local hospitals. >>>>>SOMETIMES there are free, or very low cost diabetic screening > programs. >>>>>c) look for both on the internet >>>>>2) Stop wasting your money and endangering yourself with phony "herbs" >>>>>and "supplements" You can NOT afford those scams, and, they are > usually >>>>>bad for diabetics. >>>>>3) After you get a prescription, either post on the NG, or email me >>>>>privately.  I know LOTS of ways to get cheap or free meds. – you are > NOT >>>>>the only uninsured person in the US. >>>>>4) Good thing stopping smoking >>>>>5) You HAVE to have regular eye exams, from an opthomologist – or, one >>>>>day SOON you will wake up blind.  Again  there are lots of options > which >>>>>might get you free, or reduced cost care. >>>>>People who get flamed on the groups are people who come on to a >>>>>newsgroup of long time diabetics and TELL us what WE should do, > because >>>>>they (newbie, troll, scammers, or spammers) know EVERYTHING. (or want > to >>>>>get rich off of us) >>>>>People who try and learn will usually get a number of points of view > and >>>>>possibly useful answers. >>>>>We can be a bit rough – and you may run into trolls like the Chung, > the >>>>>Watchtroll, or one of Momma Betty’s Aspartame trolls, and spammers > like >>>>>herb pushers, BioDeath, Manatech, or their ilk – but they pass.  But, > we >>>>>hope you stay, and that we can be of help to you >>>>>>I waded thru all the postings that my server had stored for AHD and > ASD >>>>and >>>>>>MHD … close to 2000 … mostly from ASD … took me 4 days, almost >>>>>>nonstop, sticks about every 2 hrs, eating something as often  ,,, was >>>>like >>>>>>being inside a cross between a cloths dryer and a kaleidoscope !!! > I’m >>>>spin >>>>>>dizzy and comfrused. >>>>>>I hope it is OK to post this to all three (this one time) … As I > will >>>>>>probably lurk in all of them. I don’t plan on revealing much about >>>>myself as >>>>>>I am very poor, have not been diagnosed, and do not want to be >>diagnosed >>>>>>until I can find some insurance. (and if I have learned anything from >>>>the >>>>>>past 4 days about SOME of the people in here … what I just said is >>>>enough >>>>>>to start a Dresden style fire storm along the lines of YOU MUST GO TO > A >>>>>>DOC… etc;.) Before you even start … >>>>>>(1) Do try to have some compassion for a unique individual, (me), and >>>>even >>>>>>though I may be totally misguided … YOU do NOT have the RIGHT to >>>>dictate >>>>>>to me … so unless you believe in coercion … please don’t tell me >>>>that I >>>>>>SHOULD or MUST or OUGHT etc. to do ‘this’ or ‘that’ … I will NOT >>>>respond >>>>>>… If you try too hard … I will tell NewsRover to block you > without >>>>even >>>>>>informing you. I DO respond to logical argument and reasoning and >>gentle >>>>>>persuasion, when I perceive it is done with >>>>caring/affection/concern/love >>>>>>AND it meshes with MY conscience. >>>>>>BTW: (a quick aside) Lord Acton coined a Diction, which I rewrote > (I’m >>a >>>>>>ghost and technical writer, freelance, and need more work, so …. >>>>please >>>>>>… ) … anyhow the revised version goes like this: The FALSE belief >>>>that >>>>>>one person can or does have POWER over another person or persons … >>>>>>CORRUPTS the person holding said belief … And, if said belief >>includes >>>>>>ABSOLUTE POWER, its holder IS CORRUPTED ABSOLUTELY !!! >>>>>>(2) Do respect my privacy, as if it were you own most heart held >>>>possession. >>>>>>I have no idea what you all can find out about me, (but I have a clue >>>>from >>>>>>some of your anti-spammers’ recent posts) … I haven’t the skill to >>>>even >>>>>>try to hide or confuse

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Response:

Since you have a meter, start out with Jennifer’s advice to newbies. She’ll be along with it soon, or you can find it at Ratty’s Site www.flyingrat.net. Try to get those numbers down while you’re waiting for your insurance, though at your age, most health insurers will want a physical since you are not buying into group insurance. I hope you succeed in obtaining it. Good luck. — Cheri – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >I hope it is OK to post this to all three (this one time) … As I will >probably lurk in all of them. I don’t plan on revealing much about myself as >I am very poor, have not been diagnosed, and do not want to be diagnosed >until I can find some insurance. (and if I have learned anything from the >past 4 days about SOME of the people in here … what I just said is enough >to start a Dresden style fire storm along the lines of YOU MUST GO TO A >DOC… etc;.) Before you even start …

Response:

quiqhi, what do you want to hear,  That yes you are definitely a diabetic,  with tose numbers there is no doubvt, do you want us to say cotinue as you are going,  I dont want your death or severe illness at the least to be on my head.  You know it cost me to bury someone than to go to the doctor,  What are your options,  I am sure there are plenty of clinics you can go to,  It is no shame to being poor,  Have you applied for medicaid .  You really need to reevaluate your priorities. The cost of the food you are eating must be high otherwise you probably would not weigh    260. Diabetes is a life changing experience, one that I find is for the better,  I have never been healthier,  My lipids are great, my bgs are low and I feel great,  Before diagnosis, I was 40 pounds heavier, couldnt breathe , felt sick all the time, This is your life and you can do what you wish,  You absolutely sound depressed and could  benefit with professional help to see why you are on a path of destruction I am sure you wont like this response, but I have to tell it like it is to live with myself. I hope you do start the fight to get this disease under control,  You needs meds of some kind, I am sure you know te complications. Loretta — In tribute to the United States of America and the State of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and terrorism.

Response:

> I waded thru all the postings that my server had stored for AHD and ASD and > MHD … close to 2000 … mostly from ASD … took me 4 days, almost > nonstop, sticks about every 2 hrs, eating something as often  ,,, was like > being inside a cross between a cloths dryer and a kaleidoscope !!! I’m spin > dizzy and comfrused.

Hi there quirque, First of all, let me say welcome to the group.  I’ll try to answer your questions, and give you as much support as I can. I’m sure there are many others here who will try to do the same. I guess I’m not surprised that you are feeling dizzy and confused, after reading all that info and trying to take it all in, as well as coming to terms with the shock and alarm of discovering you have high blood glucose (bg) readings. May I suggest you visit our web page and read Jennifer’s advice to newbies?  It will give you a good idea of how to start working out a suitable diet to meet your own metabolism and personal tastes in foods. The URL is; http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org There are other good ideas and info about diabetes to be found there.   Additionally, check out your local library for recent books on the subject, and various sites on the internet – just use a brouser like Google and search under "diabetes". > I hope it is OK to post this to all three (this one time) … As I will > probably lurk in all of them. I don’t plan on revealing much about myself as > I am very poor, have not been diagnosed, and do not want to be diagnosed > until I can find some insurance. (and if I have learned anything from the > past 4 days about SOME of the people in here … what I just said is enough > to start a Dresden style fire storm along the lines of YOU MUST GO TO A > DOC… etc;.) Before you even start …

Cross-posting is not usually encouraged, but this seems like a good time for an exception, since your post is of the nature of an introduction. I personally don’t mind.  You may notice that I am only replying from this group, however, to avoid confusion. I’m very sorry you are in the situation of having to delay seeing a doctor, for financial reasons. Because you may find it very difficult to manage your diabetes and any other related health conditions without their help. Still, I DO hope that some of the suggestions you get from us may at least get you started, and assist you to some extent. > (1) Do try to have some compassion for a unique individual, (me),

More than compassion (which IS important), my goal is to have RESPECT for you, and your right to be who you are, and hold your own beliefs, even if we should disagree about some things.  I sincerely hope you will grant us the same. > and even > though I may be totally misguided … YOU do NOT have the RIGHT to dictate > to me … so unless you believe in coercion … please don’t tell me that I > SHOULD or MUST or OUGHT etc. to do ‘this’ or ‘that’ … I will NOT respond > … If you try too hard … I will tell NewsRover to block you without even > informing you. I DO respond to logical argument and reasoning and gentle > persuasion, when I perceive it is done with

caring/affection/concern/love > AND it meshes with MY conscience.

Of course. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> BTW: (a quick aside) Lord Acton coined a Diction, which I rewrote (I’m a > ghost and technical writer, freelance, and need more work, so …. please > … ) … anyhow the revised version goes like this: The FALSE belief that > one person can or does have POWER over another person or persons … > CORRUPTS the person holding said belief … And, if said belief includes > ABSOLUTE POWER, its holder IS CORRUPTED ABSOLUTELY !!! > (2) Do respect my privacy, as if it were you own most heart held possession. > I have no idea what you all can find out about me, (but I have a clue from > some of your anti-spammers’ recent posts) … I haven’t the skill to even > try to hide or confuse what my OS (win98) or news reader (NewsRover) makes > available to you. So I just have to trust you from the get-go, I hope you’re > up to it.

I can only speak for myself (see above comments re respect). However this is an open forum, and anyone can post to it. Advertising (spam) is not allowed under newsgroup protocol, and any offenders can be reported to their relevant ISP’s.  But it still happens.  So does other offensive behavior and unpleasant posts. You are free to do whatever works for you about it.  I usually either "killfile" the offending poster or mark arguments or things I am not interested in etc as "read", and just skip over them. > I know that almost all of the above is ‘ground rules’ instead of ‘on topic’ > … but I HAD to say it (I am scared, vulnerable, confused and alone except > for my cat) …

I think you’ll find that many of us are in the same boat – scared, vulnerable, confused and alone.  Here’s hoping we can lessen the degree of any of those conditions to some extent.  It won’t be overnight, but as you learn more about your illness (diabetes), and start to gain knowledge and confidence about managing it, those feelings should lessen.  As for being alone, it’s not quite the same as being lonely.  Internet friendships can be very rewarding, and kind of safe for retiring types of  personalities. So I’d recommend you take your time, take what helps and leave the rest. NOW: do I understand correctly that questions of a > medical/tech nature should be made to AHD and supportive/social items should > be posted to ASD ??? Then what’s to be posted to MHD?

Originally, the distinctions were pretty clearly set out, but over time, they’ve tended to drift.  So you may find that these days, the lines are blurred.  MHD was originally limited to posts of a scientific/medical nature. > My sister is type 2, 10 days ago, she fed me lavishly, I downed about 3 > cokes, ice cream sandwiches for desert… the about an hour later said "I > think you are diabetic, here, let me test you." Worst part was she had to > explain a lot of things, especially what 475 mg/dL means and what normal is > supposed to be. Honestly, I didn’t go into denial, but I did pull my head in > and re-evaluate REALITY and incidentally myself image for several days.

Your sister sounds like a very smart, very caring person.  She drew your attention to a serious health condition, and got you to think about it, without offending your sense of self determination. Have you thanked her?  I’d lay odds she’s been worried about you for some time. > I am male, 54′, 260 lbs, Caucasian (is race a factor? – there: my first > question),

Some races do seem to be more genetically susceptible to T2 diabetes, but all races are known to suffer from it.  Additionally, some races seem also to have a tendency to develop diabetic complications of a particular type more often, but again, that’s no safeguard that someone of a different culture won’t get that particular complication.  Because high bg levels and the metabolic syndrome can lead to anyone developing complications, or have higher than normal risk of heart disease and strokes. One of the major goals of this group is to encourage and help people attain as close to non-diabetic numbers as they can manage, for that very reason.  You’ll also see a lot of posts about how to attempt to reduce the risk for other things that seem to accompany diabetes, (the metabolic syndrome). – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> after that first stick I’ve had a low reading of 145 once (it had > to be false … I’ve since learned that squeezing the finger tip to get the > blood out puts out more plasma and gives false low reading) and a high of > 375. in the last 18 hrs: 269, 281, 294, 364, 335, 294, 248, 231, & 240. > yesterday a high of 338 2 hrs after breakfast, and a low of 221 before > dinner, the rest all over in between (ave 260) … the 3 days before > slightly higher but getting generally lower, with some spikes. about 8+ > sticks a day. eat a little of this … see what happens … eat a little of > that … see what happens … try to keep each 2 hr meal under about 15 > carbs, no raw sugars/starches, up to about 200 calories (x12/day = about > 2400+/-) reading a lot of labels and looking a lot of things up. my #s > indicate to me that I’m in serious trouble and I hope and pray that I got > the wake up call in time. > passing no ketones, but passing 100-1000 mg/dL glucose about 6 times a day > (no pattern to the up/down).

My conclusion from that information is that you are in serious trouble.  Your bg levels are dangerously high, and spilling sugar in your urine is a bad sign.  I’m not trying to frighten you, but instead am indicating that I am very worried about you.  Without medical help, it’s going to be difficult to bring those levels down. BUT NOT impossible.  One of my concerns is that without medical help, it is almost impossible to determine if your condition is that of a late developing T1, or a T2.   They can be very difficult to distinguish, even when medical tests ARE carried out, until or unless a T1 situation becomes critically (and dangerously) obvious. If at any time, you find your ketones suddenly increase, don’t delay, but get to the ER as soon as you can.  Your life may depend on it. In the meantime, I guess we’ll just have to go with the assumption that you are a T2 diabetic.   Many doctors do the same. > I have always drank at least a gallon of water > a day, do a pass a lot of water. I don’t seem to be particularly continually > thirsty … tested that … lots of saliva after 6 hours with no

liquid. In my humble opinion (IMHO), drinking lots of water sounds like a good idea.  It is helping you to flush out some of that excess glucose, and keep the ketones down.  It may also be helping your kidneys.  I think you’ll find that most experts recommend staying well hydrated is always a good idea. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Switched to weak Lipton green tea with 1oz lemon juice per 1/2 gal

… read more »

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I waded thru all the postings that my server had stored for AHD and ASD and > MHD … close to 2000 … mostly from ASD … took me 4 days, almost > nonstop, sticks about every 2 hrs, eating something as often  ,,, was like > being inside a cross between a cloths dryer and a kaleidoscope !!! I’m spin > dizzy and comfrused. > I hope it is OK to post this to all three (this one time) … As I will > probably lurk in all of them. I don’t plan on revealing much about myself as > I am very poor, have not been diagnosed, and do not want to be diagnosed > until I can find some insurance. (and if I have learned anything from the > past 4 days about SOME of the people in here … what I just said is enough > to start a Dresden style fire storm along the lines of YOU MUST GO TO A > DOC… etc;.) Before you even start … > (1) Do try to have some compassion for a unique individual, (me), and even > though I may be totally misguided … YOU do NOT have the RIGHT to dictate > to me … so unless you believe in coercion … please don’t tell me that I > SHOULD or MUST or OUGHT etc. to do ‘this’ or ‘that’ … I will NOT respond > … If you try too hard … I will tell NewsRover to block you without even > informing you. I DO respond to logical argument and reasoning and gentle > persuasion, when I perceive it is done with caring/affection/concern/love > AND it meshes with MY conscience. > BTW: (a quick aside) Lord Acton coined a Diction, which I rewrote (I’m a > ghost and technical writer, freelance, and need more work, so …. please > … ) … anyhow the revised version goes like this: The FALSE belief that > one person can or does have POWER over another person or persons … > CORRUPTS the person holding said belief … And, if said belief includes > ABSOLUTE POWER, its holder IS CORRUPTED ABSOLUTELY !!! > (2) Do respect my privacy, as if it were you own most heart held possession. > I have no idea what you all can find out about me, (but I have a clue from > some of your anti-spammers’ recent posts) … I haven’t the skill to even > try to hide or confuse what my OS (win98) or news reader (NewsRover) makes > available to you. So I just have to trust you from the get-go, I hope you’re > up to it. > I know that almost all of the above is ‘ground rules’ instead of ‘on topic’ > … but I HAD to say it (I am scared, vulnerable, confused and alone except > for my cat) … NOW: do I understand correctly that questions of a > medical/tech nature should be made to AHD and supportive/social items should > be posted to ASD ??? Then what’s to be posted to MHD? > My sister is type 2, 10 days ago, she fed me lavishly, I downed about 3 > cokes, ice cream sandwiches for desert… the about an hour later said "I > think you are diabetic, here, let me test you." Worst part was she had to > explain a lot of things, especially what 475 mg/dL means and what normal is > supposed to be. Honestly, I didn’t go into denial, but I did pull my head in > and re-evaluate REALITY and incidentally myself image for several days. > I am male, 54′, 260 lbs, Caucasian (is race a factor? – there: my first > question), after that first stick I’ve had a low reading of 145 once (it had > to be false … I’ve since learned that squeezing the finger tip to get the > blood out puts out more plasma and gives false low reading) and a high of > 375. in the last 18 hrs: 269, 281, 294, 364, 335, 294, 248, 231, & 240. > yesterday a high of 338 2 hrs after breakfast, and a low of 221 before > dinner, the rest all over in between (ave 260) … the 3 days before > slightly higher but getting generally lower, with some spikes. about 8+ > sticks a day. eat a little of this … see what happens … eat a little of > that … see what happens … try to keep each 2 hr meal under about 15 > carbs, no raw sugars/starches, up to about 200 calories (x12/day = about > 2400+/-) reading a lot of labels and looking a lot of things up. my #s > indicate to me that I’m in serious trouble and I hope and pray that I got > the wake up call in time. > passing no ketones, but passing 100-1000 mg/dL glucose about 6 times a day > (no pattern to the up/down). I have always drank at least a gallon of water > a day, do a pass a lot of water. I don’t seem to be particularly continually > thirsty … tested that … lots of saliva after 6 hours with no liquid. > Switched to weak Lipton green tea with 1oz lemon juice per 1/2 gal (that’s > my drinking jug size), no sweetener/no sugar, (conscience or intuition and > slim facts moved me to this switch to green tea as a > antioxidant/diuretic/purgative??? I’ll try it for a while, unless you all > give me reason otherwise)… does anybody know if Lipton green tea has > caffeine? how much? (would check with Lipton if was day) (is caffeine > contraindicated?) > have been taking wide and detailed vitamins, minerals, and herbals every day > for almost ever (several months at a time, skip a month ( reality check ), > go at it again … ) stopped now to eliminate any effect they may have been > having (one was ginseng, and a little of EVERYTHING conceivable else, but > not an excessive amount of anything) … > BP mid 130s over mid 80s almost al the time, been that way since I was 19 > and in college … at that time was diagnosed (unofficially) hypoglycemia > after a 4 hr glucose tolerance test. not severe, friend doc said eat every 3 > hours until I started registering hunger on a regular basis. bought a alarm > wrist watch and ate every 3 hrs for couple of years. gradually lost interest > as all seemed normal. night sweats mild and seldom … > have mild sleeping apnea … better since I quit smoking about 3 months ago > … cold turkey … had been smoking slightly less than a pack a day of > ultra lights for about 25 yrs. > minor itching in between toes and bottom of toes and balls of feet … using > Micatin and Scholl foot powder to eliminate the possibility of it being > athelete’s foot ( I hope it is ). will know in another 2 weeks according to > the directions. > no change in vision in years, far sighted slightly, not quite mild > astigmatism almost vertical axis (from reading in the dark as a kid, I’m > told ???), > Last full physical about 3 yrs ago was told all well except what I was doing > to myself : A. lose weight (285 at that time), B. stop smoking, C. exercise. > Now (started a week ago) 15 minutes a day on a stair stepper (make sure Bg > is less that 300) reasonable starting workout, sweat at 5 min. winded at 15. > will work it up to 30 min 6 days/week. and  now at lowest toughness level of > 3 will wind up at toughest level and max min in about 6 months. > Only been testing daily and often since Bayer sent me a new meter which > arrived on the 17th. Sis had an old Bayer lancet machine and meter but the > meter didn’t work right and Bayer was nice enough to send me a new newer one > and instructions (sis didn’t have them) and a case and a box of disks and a > bag of lancets and calibrating solution. the latter three have not arrived > yet. So I am using disks (test strips) that are a year expired, but checking > against sis’s other type of meter with current strips seems to indicate that > I’m getting reasonably accurate readings. it will be nice to calibrate the > meter and run a current disk thru it. How I’m going to afford disks when I > run out I don’t know … but I will find a way !!! Yes, the 3 day rethink > exited with among other things RESOLVE.  And I acknowledge that I neeeed > help: at least information and ideas and options, and hopefully > acquaintances and friends. > Gotta plan on the exercise. Trying not to stress  (BP would indicate I’m > reasonably OK) I think that I am in glucose toxicity. I think that I need to > get my #s down to ?normal? or near, to get out of toxicity, so that the > numbers will mean something more real, so that I quit passing Gl. so that I > can get to a place where I can build a more permanent plan. Please correct > me if I’m wrong. Thoughts, questions, suggestions, comments welcome. Oh, > BTW, I’ve got thick skin literally and figuratively … sticks barely hurt > and I hope you can’t push any of my ‘emote’ buttons. > thanks in advance, > quique

I’ll actually try to contribute something instead of only asking questions for a change… I’m in a similar position of not being able to afford the disease and not having any insurance, and of having neglected my health for much of the past six years that I’ve been type 1 diabetic.  I’m glad that you came to the group making a statement and asking questions when you did because, regardless of how good or bad you feel, running with numbers like that is doing tremendous damage to your body and one day it’s a fair bet that it’s going to crash on you.  It’s a tough thing to control, and I’m still working at getting my own health under control, but it is doable, if only difficult. That being said, there’s LOTS of help out there.  In advice, from this group.  Financially and medically, check around your local area to see if there is a charity hospital or some sort of state or federal aid. There are long waits and some decidedly shady characters around you, but there’s also medical advice and prescriptions at cost, if you qualify. Just know that after that first time, they’re going to want to see you pretty frequently until things are under control.  This is something that I’m struggling with myself because of my distrust of the medical community and unease with going to medical institutions, but my fiancee (a *nurse*–yeah, I know, odd ain’t it?) and my common sense have convinced me that in the end it would be better to keep all the appointments.  Good news is that as time goes by, they’ll want to see you less and less frequently. Having been someone who recently rubbed some people in this group the wrong way with a natural alternative vs. artificial sweetener … read more »

Response:

I don’t have insurance either Ted, even though i am british. We have an health system of sorts. I don’t think he was in any doubt as to whether he should or should not see a doctor, he asked for advice and information first and foremost which seems to be what he’s got. As it happens, i think you’re right, and i guess that our friend knows we’re all right as well in that he has to see a doctor.  That responsibility lies with him, but in the meantime any help and advice we can offer is surely worthwhile:)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> You don’t get it > he HAS to see a doctor > There are NO excuses > I am not about to give any advice to anyone who won’t seek medical > advice.  It is the same as malpractice. > Unlike you brits, LOTS of us in the US do not have insurance – it is > expensive to see a doctor, and we may have trouble paying for it. > BUT, he has to.  cutting out the crap he is scarfing down would help pay > for it. > Yeah but you must agree that he asked for help, he knows he needs to see a > doctor, that wasn’t the issue that he asked for help with. I can understand > that, and we know nothing of his background nor where he comes from …… > so that being the case, offering as much help as possible would seem to be > the way forward >>It doesn’t matter >>If you wait till SOMEDAY >>then you die >>Almost NO ONE at his age can get or afford non-group insurance., and >>group insurance is not underwritten >>Why should he expect to get insurance tomorrow, and not today. >>>I get the impression that the reason he’s not done that is because he > needs >>>insurance to pay for the treatment, if you go to the doctor and get >>>diagnosed before you get insurance then you won’t get insurance, or not > at >>>the same price! However that doesn’t make it any less important that he > gets >>>to see a doctor as soon as he can. >>>>cc’d by email >>>>sigh >>>>You are on a newsgroup – you better get a little less shy if you want to >>>> get the most out of it >>>>1) You HAVE to go to a doctor – no choice. >>>>a) check your local papers for ads for programs looking for diabetics >>>>to study – they will provide, at a minimum,  free medical visits and > labs >>>>b) Check your local health department and the local hospitals. >>>>SOMETIMES there are free, or very low cost diabetic screening programs. >>>>c) look for both on the internet >>>>2) Stop wasting your money and endangering yourself with phony "herbs" >>>>and "supplements" You can NOT afford those scams, and, they are usually >>>>bad for diabetics. >>>>3) After you get a prescription, either post on the NG, or email me >>>>privately.  I know LOTS of ways to get cheap or free meds. – you are NOT >>>>the only uninsured person in the US. >>>>4) Good thing stopping smoking >>>>5) You HAVE to have regular eye exams, from an opthomologist – or, one >>>>day SOON you will wake up blind.  Again  there are lots of options which >>>>might get you free, or reduced cost care. >>>>People who get flamed on the groups are people who come on to a >>>>newsgroup of long time diabetics and TELL us what WE should do, because >>>>they (newbie, troll, scammers, or spammers) know EVERYTHING. (or want to >>>>get rich off of us) >>>>People who try and learn will usually get a number of points of view and >>>>possibly useful answers. >>>>We can be a bit rough – and you may run into trolls like the Chung, the >>>>Watchtroll, or one of Momma Betty’s Aspartame trolls, and spammers like >>>>herb pushers, BioDeath, Manatech, or their ilk – but they pass.  But, we >>>>hope you stay, and that we can be of help to you >>>>>I waded thru all the postings that my server had stored for AHD and ASD >>>and >>>>>MHD … close to 2000 … mostly from ASD … took me 4 days, almost >>>>>nonstop, sticks about every 2 hrs, eating something as often  ,,, was >>>like >>>>>being inside a cross between a cloths dryer and a kaleidoscope !!! I’m >>>spin >>>>>dizzy and comfrused. >>>>>I hope it is OK to post this to all three (this one time) … As I will >>>>>probably lurk in all of them. I don’t plan on revealing much about >>>myself as >>>>>I am very poor, have not been diagnosed, and do not want to be > diagnosed >>>>>until I can find some insurance. (and if I have learned anything from >>>the >>>>>past 4 days about SOME of the people in here … what I just said is >>>enough >>>>>to start a Dresden style fire storm along the lines of YOU MUST GO TO A >>>>>DOC… etc;.) Before you even start … >>>>>(1) Do try to have some compassion for a unique individual, (me), and >>>even >>>>>though I may be totally misguided … YOU do NOT have the RIGHT to >>>dictate >>>>>to me … so unless you believe in coercion … please don’t tell me >>>that I >>>>>SHOULD or MUST or OUGHT etc. to do ‘this’ or ‘that’ … I will NOT >>>respond >>>>>… If you try too hard … I will tell NewsRover to block you without >>>even >>>>>informing you. I DO respond to logical argument and reasoning and > gentle >>>>>persuasion, when I perceive it is done with >>>caring/affection/concern/love >>>>>AND it meshes with MY conscience. >>>>>BTW: (a quick aside) Lord Acton coined a Diction, which I rewrote (I’m > a >>>>>ghost and technical writer, freelance, and need more work, so …. >>>please >>>>>… ) … anyhow the revised version goes like this: The FALSE belief >>>that >>>>>one person can or does have POWER over another person or persons … >>>>>CORRUPTS the person holding said belief … And, if said belief > includes >>>>>ABSOLUTE POWER, its holder IS CORRUPTED ABSOLUTELY !!! >>>>>(2) Do respect my privacy, as if it were you own most heart held >>>possession. >>>>>I have no idea what you all can find out about me, (but I have a clue >>>from >>>>>some of your anti-spammers’ recent posts) … I haven’t the skill to >>>even >>>>>try to hide or confuse what my OS (win98) or news reader (NewsRover) >>>makes >>>>>available to you. So I just have to trust you from the get-go, I hope >>>you’re >>>>>up to it. >>>>>I know that almost all of the above is ‘ground rules’ instead of ‘on >>>topic’ >>>>>… but I HAD to say it (I am scared, vulnerable, confused and alone >>>except >>>>>for my cat) … NOW: do I understand correctly that questions of a >>>>>medical/tech nature should be made to AHD and supportive/social items >>>should >>>>>be posted to ASD ??? Then what’s to be posted to MHD? >>>>>My sister is type 2, 10 days ago, she fed me lavishly, I downed about 3 >>>>>cokes, ice cream sandwiches for desert… the about an hour later said >>>"I >>>>>think you are diabetic, here, let me test you." Worst part was she had >>>to >>>>>explain a lot of things, especially what 475 mg/dL means and what > normal >>>is >>>>>supposed to be. Honestly, I didn’t go into denial, but I did pull my >>>head in >>>>>and re-evaluate REALITY and incidentally myself image for several days. >>>>>I am male, 54′, 260 lbs, Caucasian (is race a factor? – there: my first >>>>>question), after that first stick I’ve had a low reading of 145 once > (it >>>had >>>>>to be false … I’ve since learned that squeezing the finger tip to get >>>the >>>>>blood out puts out more plasma and gives false low reading) and a high >>>of >>>>>375. in the last 18 hrs: 269, 281, 294, 364, 335, 294, 248, 231, & 240. >>>>>yesterday a high of 338 2 hrs after breakfast, and a low of 221 before >>>>>dinner, the rest all over in between (ave 260) … the 3 days before >>>>>slightly higher but getting generally lower, with some spikes. about 8+ >>>>>sticks a day. eat a little of this … see what happens … eat a > little >>>of >>>>>that … see what happens … try to keep each 2 hr meal under about 15 >>>>>carbs, no raw sugars/starches, up to about 200 calories (x12/day = > about >>>>>2400+/-) reading a lot of labels and looking a lot of things up. my #s >>>>>indicate to me that I’m in serious trouble and I hope and pray that I >>>got >>>>>the wake up call in time. >>>>>passing no ketones, but passing 100-1000 mg/dL glucose about 6 times a >>>day >>>>>(no pattern to the up/down). I have always drank at least a gallon of >>>water >>>>>a day, do a pass a lot of water. I don’t seem to be particularly >>>continually >>>>>thirsty … tested that … lots of saliva after 6 hours with no > liquid. >>>>>Switched to weak Lipton green tea with 1oz lemon juice per 1/2 gal >>>(that’s >>>>>my drinking jug size), no sweetener/no sugar, (conscience or intuition >>>and

… read more »

Response:

> > What does your doctor say? What Rxs did s/he give? > I guess the following wasn’t explicit enough … > I am very poor, have not been diagnosed, and do not want to be diagnosed > until I can find some insurance. > Therefore, I clarify: (1) I don’t have a doctor. (2) I haven’t been > diagnosed. (3) I have not been Rx’ed.

I encourage you to check with your local teaching hospital and see what kind of programs they have. I was poor and uninsured when I had cancer, so I know these programs are out there. (I’m assuming that you’re a single man with no dependents, and not eligible for most state/federal programs. Might check into state/federal help anyway!) I don’t want to scare the crap out of you, but your numbers are too high to continue without some sort of medical intervention. No, you’re not going to drop dead tomorrow, and you’re not guaranteeing yourself future misery, but it is best to get treatment as soon as possible. It sounds as though you are working hard on your own, but it sounds as though you need some medical help. In the meantime, you might consider cutting out bread, sugared soda, beer, crackers, etc – any food with a high carbohydrate content until you get medical attention. Please do ask any teaching hospital in your area what kind of programs they have. > And your BP should be a little lower; it is recommended that diabetics > have lower BP than "normals." > Thank you for the suggestion.. How low should it be, ideally? What would be > a good way to get it there?

i’m sorry, I don’t remember the exact numbers, except that mine is below it (I’ve always had low BP). — "Did Father shoot him? I will eat Grandfather for dinner." – Helen Keller, on learning of the death of her grandfather

Response:

> (1) Do try to have some compassion for a unique individual, (me), and > even though I may be totally misguided … YOU do NOT have the RIGHT > to dictate to me … so unless you believe in coercion … please > don’t tell me that I SHOULD or MUST or OUGHT etc. to do ‘this’ or > ‘that’ … I will NOT respond

If you don’t wish to benefit from the accumulated knowledge of the groups, why bother asking for assistance here? As someone who shares a great deal in common with you (I’m also a writer, similar age, race, etc., etc.) my first reaction is that, rather than being a "private" person, you come across as simply being hard-headed. So, the first thing I’ll say to you that will rub you the wrong way is, GET THEE TO A DOCTOR! Can’t afford it? Check out one of the innumerable studies being conducted by the major pharmacos, e.g. http://www.diabetes-study.com/About.asp, http://www.slu.edu/readstory/newslink/3131, http://diabetes.niddk.nih.gov/statistics/index.htm > If you try too hard … I will tell > NewsRover to block you without even informing you. I DO respond to > logical argument and reasoning and gentle persuasion, when I perceive > it is done with caring/affection/concern/love AND it meshes with MY > conscience.

I suggest you quickly develop a thicker skin, this is USENET, not your very own support group. > I know that almost all of the above is ‘ground rules’ instead of ‘on > topic’ … but I HAD to say it (I am scared, vulnerable, confused and > alone except for my cat) … NOW: do I understand correctly that > questions of a medical/tech nature should be made to AHD and > supportive/social items should be posted to ASD ??? Then what’s to be > posted to MHD?

MHD appears to be more for technical issues than AHD, and is visited by many Type Is with insulin, syringe, pump questions. > My sister is type 2, 10 days ago, she fed me lavishly, I downed about > 3 cokes, ice cream sandwiches for desert… the about an hour later > said "I think you are diabetic, here, let me test you." Worst part > was she had to explain a lot of things, especially what 475 mg/dL > means and what normal is supposed to be. Honestly, I didn’t go into > denial, but I did pull my head in and re-evaluate REALITY and > incidentally myself image for several days.

A reading of 475 AT ANY TIME is sufficient to diagnose that you’re a diabetic! You need to seek professional help. Don’t give us a bunch of excuses why you can’t or won’t see a physician, you NEED to be evaluated in order to determine if you require some medications to assist your gaining control of your BG levels. > have been taking wide and detailed vitamins, minerals, and herbals > every day for almost ever (several months at a time, skip a month ( > reality check ), go at it again … ) stopped now to eliminate any > effect they may have been having (one was ginseng, and a little of > EVERYTHING conceivable else, but not an excessive amount of anything)

A total waste of time and money at thid point. All you’re doing is changing the flowers in the vases on the Titanic! > have mild sleeping apnea … better since I quit smoking about 3 > months ago … cold turkey … had been smoking slightly less than a > pack a day of ultra lights for about 25 yrs.

Good for you! Wish I could quit. > minor itching in between toes and bottom of toes and balls of feet > … using Micatin and Scholl foot powder to eliminate the possibility > of it being athelete’s foot ( I hope it is ). will know in another 2 > weeks according to the directions.

But, it could be something worse than athlete’s foot, in which case waiting two weeks is sheer folly. > And I > acknowledge that I neeeed help: at least information and ideas and > options, and hopefully acquaintances and friends.

Some of us believe in "tough love", you won’t always get responses wrapped in a ribbon and tied in a bow. Find a teaching hospital, sit yourself in the waiting room and SEE A DOCTOR! Regards, James the Elder

Response:

You don’t get it he HAS to see a doctor There are NO excuses I am not about to give any advice to anyone who won’t seek medical advice.  It is the same as malpractice. Unlike you brits, LOTS of us in the US do not have insurance – it is expensive to see a doctor, and we may have trouble paying for it. BUT, he has to.  cutting out the crap he is scarfing down would help pay for it. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Yeah but you must agree that he asked for help, he knows he needs to see a > doctor, that wasn’t the issue that he asked for help with. I can understand > that, and we know nothing of his background nor where he comes from …… > so that being the case, offering as much help as possible would seem to be > the way forward >It doesn’t matter >If you wait till SOMEDAY >then you die >Almost NO ONE at his age can get or afford non-group insurance., and >group insurance is not underwritten >Why should he expect to get insurance tomorrow, and not today. >>I get the impression that the reason he’s not done that is because he > needs >>insurance to pay for the treatment, if you go to the doctor and get >>diagnosed before you get insurance then you won’t get insurance, or not > at >>the same price! However that doesn’t make it any less important that he > gets >>to see a doctor as soon as he can. >>>cc’d by email >>>sigh >>>You are on a newsgroup – you better get a little less shy if you want to >>> get the most out of it >>>1) You HAVE to go to a doctor – no choice. >>>a) check your local papers for ads for programs looking for diabetics >>>to study – they will provide, at a minimum,  free medical visits and > labs >>>b) Check your local health department and the local hospitals. >>>SOMETIMES there are free, or very low cost diabetic screening programs. >>>c) look for both on the internet >>>2) Stop wasting your money and endangering yourself with phony "herbs" >>>and "supplements" You can NOT afford those scams, and, they are usually >>>bad for diabetics. >>>3) After you get a prescription, either post on the NG, or email me >>>privately.  I know LOTS of ways to get cheap or free meds. – you are NOT >>>the only uninsured person in the US. >>>4) Good thing stopping smoking >>>5) You HAVE to have regular eye exams, from an opthomologist – or, one >>>day SOON you will wake up blind.  Again  there are lots of options which >>>might get you free, or reduced cost care. >>>People who get flamed on the groups are people who come on to a >>>newsgroup of long time diabetics and TELL us what WE should do, because >>>they (newbie, troll, scammers, or spammers) know EVERYTHING. (or want to >>>get rich off of us) >>>People who try and learn will usually get a number of points of view and >>>possibly useful answers. >>>We can be a bit rough – and you may run into trolls like the Chung, the >>>Watchtroll, or one of Momma Betty’s Aspartame trolls, and spammers like >>>herb pushers, BioDeath, Manatech, or their ilk – but they pass.  But, we >>>hope you stay, and that we can be of help to you >>>>I waded thru all the postings that my server had stored for AHD and ASD >>and >>>>MHD … close to 2000 … mostly from ASD … took me 4 days, almost >>>>nonstop, sticks about every 2 hrs, eating something as often  ,,, was >>like >>>>being inside a cross between a cloths dryer and a kaleidoscope !!! I’m >>spin >>>>dizzy and comfrused. >>>>I hope it is OK to post this to all three (this one time) … As I will >>>>probably lurk in all of them. I don’t plan on revealing much about >>myself as >>>>I am very poor, have not been diagnosed, and do not want to be > diagnosed >>>>until I can find some insurance. (and if I have learned anything from >>the >>>>past 4 days about SOME of the people in here … what I just said is >>enough >>>>to start a Dresden style fire storm along the lines of YOU MUST GO TO A >>>>DOC… etc;.) Before you even start … >>>>(1) Do try to have some compassion for a unique individual, (me), and >>even >>>>though I may be totally misguided … YOU do NOT have the RIGHT to >>dictate >>>>to me … so unless you believe in coercion … please don’t tell me >>that I >>>>SHOULD or MUST or OUGHT etc. to do ‘this’ or ‘that’ … I will NOT >>respond >>>>… If you try too hard … I will tell NewsRover to block you without >>even >>>>informing you. I DO respond to logical argument and reasoning and > gentle >>>>persuasion, when I perceive it is done with >>caring/affection/concern/love >>>>AND it meshes with MY conscience. >>>>BTW: (a quick aside) Lord Acton coined a Diction, which I rewrote (I’m > a >>>>ghost and technical writer, freelance, and need more work, so …. >>please >>>>… ) … anyhow the revised version goes like this: The FALSE belief >>that >>>>one person can or does have POWER over another person or persons … >>>>CORRUPTS the person holding said belief … And, if said belief > includes >>>>ABSOLUTE POWER, its holder IS CORRUPTED ABSOLUTELY !!! >>>>(2) Do respect my privacy, as if it were you own most heart held >>possession. >>>>I have no idea what you all can find out about me, (but I have a clue >>from >>>>some of your anti-spammers’ recent posts) … I haven’t the skill to >>even >>>>try to hide or confuse what my OS (win98) or news reader (NewsRover) >>makes >>>>available to you. So I just have to trust you from the get-go, I hope >>you’re >>>>up to it. >>>>I know that almost all of the above is ‘ground rules’ instead of ‘on >>topic’ >>>>… but I HAD to say it (I am scared, vulnerable, confused and alone >>except >>>>for my cat) … NOW: do I understand correctly that questions of a >>>>medical/tech nature should be made to AHD and supportive/social items >>should >>>>be posted to ASD ??? Then what’s to be posted to MHD? >>>>My sister is type 2, 10 days ago, she fed me lavishly, I downed about 3 >>>>cokes, ice cream sandwiches for desert… the about an hour later said >>"I >>>>think you are diabetic, here, let me test you." Worst part was she had >>to >>>>explain a lot of things, especially what 475 mg/dL means and what > normal >>is >>>>supposed to be. Honestly, I didn’t go into denial, but I did pull my >>head in >>>>and re-evaluate REALITY and incidentally myself image for several days. >>>>I am male, 54′, 260 lbs, Caucasian (is race a factor? – there: my first >>>>question), after that first stick I’ve had a low reading of 145 once > (it >>had >>>>to be false … I’ve since learned that squeezing the finger tip to get >>the >>>>blood out puts out more plasma and gives false low reading) and a high >>of >>>>375. in the last 18 hrs: 269, 281, 294, 364, 335, 294, 248, 231, & 240. >>>>yesterday a high of 338 2 hrs after breakfast, and a low of 221 before >>>>dinner, the rest all over in between (ave 260) … the 3 days before >>>>slightly higher but getting generally lower, with some spikes. about 8+ >>>>sticks a day. eat a little of this … see what happens … eat a > little >>of >>>>that … see what happens … try to keep each 2 hr meal under about 15 >>>>carbs, no raw sugars/starches, up to about 200 calories (x12/day = > about >>>>2400+/-) reading a lot of labels and looking a lot of things up. my #s >>>>indicate to me that I’m in serious trouble and I hope and pray that I >>got >>>>the wake up call in time. >>>>passing no ketones, but passing 100-1000 mg/dL glucose about 6 times a >>day >>>>(no pattern to the up/down). I have always drank at least a gallon of >>water >>>>a day, do a pass a lot of water. I don’t seem to be particularly >>continually >>>>thirsty … tested that … lots of saliva after 6 hours with no > liquid. >>>>Switched to weak Lipton green tea with 1oz lemon juice per 1/2 gal >>(that’s >>>>my drinking jug size), no sweetener/no sugar, (conscience or intuition >>and >>>>slim facts moved me to this switch to green tea as a >>>>antioxidant/diuretic/purgative??? I’ll try it for a while, unless you >>all >>>>give me reason otherwise)… does anybody know if Lipton green tea has >>>>caffeine? how much? (would check with Lipton if was day) (is caffeine >>>>contraindicated?) >>>>have been taking wide and detailed vitamins, minerals, and herbals > every >>day >>>>for almost ever (several months at a time, skip a month ( reality >>check ), >>>>go at it again … ) stopped now to eliminate any effect they may have >>been >>>>having (one was ginseng, and a little of EVERYTHING conceivable else, >>but >>>>not an excessive amount of anything) … >>>>BP mid 130s over mid 80s almost al the time, been that way since I was >>19 >>>>and in college … at that time was diagnosed (unofficially) >>hypoglycemia >>>>after a 4 hr glucose tolerance test. not severe, friend doc said eat >>every 3 >>>>hours until I started registering hunger on a regular basis. bought a >>alarm >>>>wrist watch and ate every 3 hrs for couple of years. gradually lost >>interest

… read more »

Response:

Yeah but you must agree that he asked for help, he knows he needs to see a doctor, that wasn’t the issue that he asked for help with. I can understand that, and we know nothing of his background nor where he comes from …… so that being the case, offering as much help as possible would seem to be the way forward

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> It doesn’t matter > If you wait till SOMEDAY > then you die > Almost NO ONE at his age can get or afford non-group insurance., and > group insurance is not underwritten > Why should he expect to get insurance tomorrow, and not today. > I get the impression that the reason he’s not done that is because he needs > insurance to pay for the treatment, if you go to the doctor and get > diagnosed before you get insurance then you won’t get insurance, or not at > the same price! However that doesn’t make it any less important that he gets > to see a doctor as soon as he can. >>cc’d by email >>sigh >>You are on a newsgroup – you better get a little less shy if you want to >>  get the most out of it >>1) You HAVE to go to a doctor – no choice. >>a) check your local papers for ads for programs looking for diabetics >>to study – they will provide, at a minimum,  free medical visits and labs >>b) Check your local health department and the local hospitals. >>SOMETIMES there are free, or very low cost diabetic screening programs. >>c) look for both on the internet >>2) Stop wasting your money and endangering yourself with phony "herbs" >>and "supplements" You can NOT afford those scams, and, they are usually >>bad for diabetics. >>3) After you get a prescription, either post on the NG, or email me >>privately.  I know LOTS of ways to get cheap or free meds. – you are NOT >>the only uninsured person in the US. >>4) Good thing stopping smoking >>5) You HAVE to have regular eye exams, from an opthomologist – or, one >>day SOON you will wake up blind.  Again  there are lots of options which >>might get you free, or reduced cost care. >>People who get flamed on the groups are people who come on to a >>newsgroup of long time diabetics and TELL us what WE should do, because >>they (newbie, troll, scammers, or spammers) know EVERYTHING. (or want to >>get rich off of us) >>People who try and learn will usually get a number of points of view and >>possibly useful answers. >>We can be a bit rough – and you may run into trolls like the Chung, the >>Watchtroll, or one of Momma Betty’s Aspartame trolls, and spammers like >>herb pushers, BioDeath, Manatech, or their ilk – but they pass.  But, we >>hope you stay, and that we can be of help to you >>>I waded thru all the postings that my server had stored for AHD and ASD > and >>>MHD … close to 2000 … mostly from ASD … took me 4 days, almost >>>nonstop, sticks about every 2 hrs, eating something as often  ,,, was > like >>>being inside a cross between a cloths dryer and a kaleidoscope !!! I’m > spin >>>dizzy and comfrused. >>>I hope it is OK to post this to all three (this one time) … As I will >>>probably lurk in all of them. I don’t plan on revealing much about > myself as >>>I am very poor, have not been diagnosed, and do not want to be diagnosed >>>until I can find some insurance. (and if I have learned anything from > the >>>past 4 days about SOME of the people in here … what I just said is > enough >>>to start a Dresden style fire storm along the lines of YOU MUST GO TO A >>>DOC… etc;.) Before you even start … >>>(1) Do try to have some compassion for a unique individual, (me), and > even >>>though I may be totally misguided … YOU do NOT have the RIGHT to > dictate >>>to me … so unless you believe in coercion … please don’t tell me > that I >>>SHOULD or MUST or OUGHT etc. to do ‘this’ or ‘that’ … I will NOT > respond >>>… If you try too hard … I will tell NewsRover to block you without > even >>>informing you. I DO respond to logical argument and reasoning and gentle >>>persuasion, when I perceive it is done with > caring/affection/concern/love >>>AND it meshes with MY conscience. >>>BTW: (a quick aside) Lord Acton coined a Diction, which I rewrote (I’m a >>>ghost and technical writer, freelance, and need more work, so …. > please >>>… ) … anyhow the revised version goes like this: The FALSE belief > that >>>one person can or does have POWER over another person or persons … >>>CORRUPTS the person holding said belief … And, if said belief includes >>>ABSOLUTE POWER, its holder IS CORRUPTED ABSOLUTELY !!! >>>(2) Do respect my privacy, as if it were you own most heart held > possession. >>>I have no idea what you all can find out about me, (but I have a clue > from >>>some of your anti-spammers’ recent posts) … I haven’t the skill to > even >>>try to hide or confuse what my OS (win98) or news reader (NewsRover) > makes >>>available to you. So I just have to trust you from the get-go, I hope > you’re >>>up to it. >>>I know that almost all of the above is ‘ground rules’ instead of ‘on > topic’ >>>… but I HAD to say it (I am scared, vulnerable, confused and alone > except >>>for my cat) … NOW: do I understand correctly that questions of a >>>medical/tech nature should be made to AHD and supportive/social items > should >>>be posted to ASD ??? Then what’s to be posted to MHD? >>>My sister is type 2, 10 days ago, she fed me lavishly, I downed about 3 >>>cokes, ice cream sandwiches for desert… the about an hour later said > "I >>>think you are diabetic, here, let me test you." Worst part was she had > to >>>explain a lot of things, especially what 475 mg/dL means and what normal > is >>>supposed to be. Honestly, I didn’t go into denial, but I did pull my > head in >>>and re-evaluate REALITY and incidentally myself image for several days. >>>I am male, 54′, 260 lbs, Caucasian (is race a factor? – there: my first >>>question), after that first stick I’ve had a low reading of 145 once (it > had >>>to be false … I’ve since learned that squeezing the finger tip to get > the >>>blood out puts out more plasma and gives false low reading) and a high > of >>>375. in the last 18 hrs: 269, 281, 294, 364, 335, 294, 248, 231, & 240. >>>yesterday a high of 338 2 hrs after breakfast, and a low of 221 before >>>dinner, the rest all over in between (ave 260) … the 3 days before >>>slightly higher but getting generally lower, with some spikes. about 8+ >>>sticks a day. eat a little of this … see what happens … eat a little > of >>>that … see what happens … try to keep each 2 hr meal under about 15 >>>carbs, no raw sugars/starches, up to about 200 calories (x12/day = about >>>2400+/-) reading a lot of labels and looking a lot of things up. my #s >>>indicate to me that I’m in serious trouble and I hope and pray that I > got >>>the wake up call in time. >>>passing no ketones, but passing 100-1000 mg/dL glucose about 6 times a > day >>>(no pattern to the up/down). I have always drank at least a gallon of > water >>>a day, do a pass a lot of water. I don’t seem to be particularly > continually >>>thirsty … tested that … lots of saliva after 6 hours with no liquid. >>>Switched to weak Lipton green tea with 1oz lemon juice per 1/2 gal > (that’s >>>my drinking jug size), no sweetener/no sugar, (conscience or intuition > and >>>slim facts moved me to this switch to green tea as a >>>antioxidant/diuretic/purgative??? I’ll try it for a while, unless you > all >>>give me reason otherwise)… does anybody know if Lipton green tea has >>>caffeine? how much? (would check with Lipton if was day) (is caffeine >>>contraindicated?) >>>have been taking wide and detailed vitamins, minerals, and herbals every > day >>>for almost ever (several months at a time, skip a month ( reality > check ), >>>go at it again … ) stopped now to eliminate any effect they may have > been >>>having (one was ginseng, and a little of EVERYTHING conceivable else, > but >>>not an excessive amount of anything) … >>>BP mid 130s over mid 80s almost al the time, been that way since I was > 19 >>>and in college … at that time was diagnosed (unofficially) > hypoglycemia >>>after a 4 hr glucose tolerance test. not severe, friend doc said eat > every 3 >>>hours until I started registering hunger on a regular basis. bought a > alarm >>>wrist watch and ate every 3 hrs for couple of years. gradually lost > interest >>>as all seemed normal. night sweats mild and seldom … >>>have mild sleeping apnea … better since I quit smoking about 3 months > ago >>>… cold turkey … had been smoking slightly less than a pack a day of >>>ultra lights for about 25 yrs. >>>minor itching in between toes and bottom of toes and balls of feet … > using >>>Micatin and Scholl foot powder to eliminate the possibility of it being >>>athelete’s foot ( I hope it is ). will know in another 2 weeks according > to >>>the directions. >>>no change in vision in years, far sighted slightly, not quite mild >>>astigmatism

… read more »

Response:

It doesn’t matter If you wait till SOMEDAY then you die Almost NO ONE at his age can get or afford non-group insurance., and group insurance is not underwritten Why should he expect to get insurance tomorrow, and not today. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I get the impression that the reason he’s not done that is because he needs > insurance to pay for the treatment, if you go to the doctor and get > diagnosed before you get insurance then you won’t get insurance, or not at > the same price! However that doesn’t make it any less important that he gets > to see a doctor as soon as he can. >cc’d by email >sigh >You are on a newsgroup – you better get a little less shy if you want to >  get the most out of it >1) You HAVE to go to a doctor – no choice. >a) check your local papers for ads for programs looking for diabetics >to study – they will provide, at a minimum,  free medical visits and labs >b) Check your local health department and the local hospitals. >SOMETIMES there are free, or very low cost diabetic screening programs. >c) look for both on the internet >2) Stop wasting your money and endangering yourself with phony "herbs" >and "supplements" You can NOT afford those scams, and, they are usually >bad for diabetics. >3) After you get a prescription, either post on the NG, or email me >privately.  I know LOTS of ways to get cheap or free meds. – you are NOT >the only uninsured person in the US. >4) Good thing stopping smoking >5) You HAVE to have regular eye exams, from an opthomologist – or, one >day SOON you will wake up blind.  Again  there are lots of options which >might get you free, or reduced cost care. >People who get flamed on the groups are people who come on to a >newsgroup of long time diabetics and TELL us what WE should do, because >they (newbie, troll, scammers, or spammers) know EVERYTHING. (or want to >get rich off of us) >People who try and learn will usually get a number of points of view and >possibly useful answers. >We can be a bit rough – and you may run into trolls like the Chung, the >Watchtroll, or one of Momma Betty’s Aspartame trolls, and spammers like >herb pushers, BioDeath, Manatech, or their ilk – but they pass.  But, we >hope you stay, and that we can be of help to you >>I waded thru all the postings that my server had stored for AHD and ASD > and >>MHD … close to 2000 … mostly from ASD … took me 4 days, almost >>nonstop, sticks about every 2 hrs, eating something as often  ,,, was > like >>being inside a cross between a cloths dryer and a kaleidoscope !!! I’m > spin >>dizzy and comfrused. >>I hope it is OK to post this to all three (this one time) … As I will >>probably lurk in all of them. I don’t plan on revealing much about > myself as >>I am very poor, have not been diagnosed, and do not want to be diagnosed >>until I can find some insurance. (and if I have learned anything from > the >>past 4 days about SOME of the people in here … what I just said is > enough >>to start a Dresden style fire storm along the lines of YOU MUST GO TO A >>DOC… etc;.) Before you even start … >>(1) Do try to have some compassion for a unique individual, (me), and > even >>though I may be totally misguided … YOU do NOT have the RIGHT to > dictate >>to me … so unless you believe in coercion … please don’t tell me > that I >>SHOULD or MUST or OUGHT etc. to do ‘this’ or ‘that’ … I will NOT > respond >>… If you try too hard … I will tell NewsRover to block you without > even >>informing you. I DO respond to logical argument and reasoning and gentle >>persuasion, when I perceive it is done with > caring/affection/concern/love >>AND it meshes with MY conscience. >>BTW: (a quick aside) Lord Acton coined a Diction, which I rewrote (I’m a >>ghost and technical writer, freelance, and need more work, so …. > please >>… ) … anyhow the revised version goes like this: The FALSE belief > that >>one person can or does have POWER over another person or persons … >>CORRUPTS the person holding said belief … And, if said belief includes >>ABSOLUTE POWER, its holder IS CORRUPTED ABSOLUTELY !!! >>(2) Do respect my privacy, as if it were you own most heart held > possession. >>I have no idea what you all can find out about me, (but I have a clue > from >>some of your anti-spammers’ recent posts) … I haven’t the skill to > even >>try to hide or confuse what my OS (win98) or news reader (NewsRover) > makes >>available to you. So I just have to trust you from the get-go, I hope > you’re >>up to it. >>I know that almost all of the above is ‘ground rules’ instead of ‘on > topic’ >>… but I HAD to say it (I am scared, vulnerable, confused and alone > except >>for my cat) … NOW: do I understand correctly that questions of a >>medical/tech nature should be made to AHD and supportive/social items > should >>be posted to ASD ??? Then what’s to be posted to MHD? >>My sister is type 2, 10 days ago, she fed me lavishly, I downed about 3 >>cokes, ice cream sandwiches for desert… the about an hour later said > "I >>think you are diabetic, here, let me test you." Worst part was she had > to >>explain a lot of things, especially what 475 mg/dL means and what normal > is >>supposed to be. Honestly, I didn’t go into denial, but I did pull my > head in >>and re-evaluate REALITY and incidentally myself image for several days. >>I am male, 54′, 260 lbs, Caucasian (is race a factor? – there: my first >>question), after that first stick I’ve had a low reading of 145 once (it > had >>to be false … I’ve since learned that squeezing the finger tip to get > the >>blood out puts out more plasma and gives false low reading) and a high > of >>375. in the last 18 hrs: 269, 281, 294, 364, 335, 294, 248, 231, & 240. >>yesterday a high of 338 2 hrs after breakfast, and a low of 221 before >>dinner, the rest all over in between (ave 260) … the 3 days before >>slightly higher but getting generally lower, with some spikes. about 8+ >>sticks a day. eat a little of this … see what happens … eat a little > of >>that … see what happens … try to keep each 2 hr meal under about 15 >>carbs, no raw sugars/starches, up to about 200 calories (x12/day = about >>2400+/-) reading a lot of labels and looking a lot of things up. my #s >>indicate to me that I’m in serious trouble and I hope and pray that I > got >>the wake up call in time. >>passing no ketones, but passing 100-1000 mg/dL glucose about 6 times a > day >>(no pattern to the up/down). I have always drank at least a gallon of > water >>a day, do a pass a lot of water. I don’t seem to be particularly > continually >>thirsty … tested that … lots of saliva after 6 hours with no liquid. >>Switched to weak Lipton green tea with 1oz lemon juice per 1/2 gal > (that’s >>my drinking jug size), no sweetener/no sugar, (conscience or intuition > and >>slim facts moved me to this switch to green tea as a >>antioxidant/diuretic/purgative??? I’ll try it for a while, unless you > all >>give me reason otherwise)… does anybody know if Lipton green tea has >>caffeine? how much? (would check with Lipton if was day) (is caffeine >>contraindicated?) >>have been taking wide and detailed vitamins, minerals, and herbals every > day >>for almost ever (several months at a time, skip a month ( reality > check ), >>go at it again … ) stopped now to eliminate any effect they may have > been >>having (one was ginseng, and a little of EVERYTHING conceivable else, > but >>not an excessive amount of anything) … >>BP mid 130s over mid 80s almost al the time, been that way since I was > 19 >>and in college … at that time was diagnosed (unofficially) > hypoglycemia >>after a 4 hr glucose tolerance test. not severe, friend doc said eat > every 3 >>hours until I started registering hunger on a regular basis. bought a > alarm >>wrist watch and ate every 3 hrs for couple of years. gradually lost > interest >>as all seemed normal. night sweats mild and seldom … >>have mild sleeping apnea … better since I quit smoking about 3 months > ago >>… cold turkey … had been smoking slightly less than a pack a day of >>ultra lights for about 25 yrs. >>minor itching in between toes and bottom of toes and balls of feet … > using >>Micatin and Scholl foot powder to eliminate the possibility of it being >>athelete’s foot ( I hope it is ). will know in another 2 weeks according > to >>the directions. >>no change in vision in years, far sighted slightly, not quite mild >>astigmatism almost vertical axis (from reading in the dark as a kid, I’m >>told ???), >>Last full physical about 3 yrs ago was told all well except what I was > doing >>to myself : A. lose weight (285 at that time), B. stop smoking, C. > exercise. >>Now (started a week ago) 15 minutes a day on a stair stepper (make sure > Bg >>is less that 300) reasonable starting workout, sweat at 5 min. winded at > 15. >>will work it up to 30 min 6 days/week. and  now at lowest toughness > level of >>3 will wind up at toughest level and max min in about 6 months. >>Only been testing daily and often since Bayer sent me a new meter which >>arrived on the 17th. Sis had an old Bayer lancet machine and meter but > the >>meter didn’t work right and Bayer was nice enough to send me a new newer > one >>and instructions (sis didn’t have them) and a case and a box of disks > and a >>bag of

… read more »

Response:

I get the impression that the reason he’s not done that is because he needs insurance to pay for the treatment, if you go to the doctor and get diagnosed before you get insurance then you won’t get insurance, or not at the same price! However that doesn’t make it any less important that he gets to see a doctor as soon as he can.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> cc’d by email > sigh > You are on a newsgroup – you better get a little less shy if you want to >   get the most out of it > 1) You HAVE to go to a doctor – no choice. > a) check your local papers for ads for programs looking for diabetics > to study – they will provide, at a minimum,  free medical visits and labs > b) Check your local health department and the local hospitals. > SOMETIMES there are free, or very low cost diabetic screening programs. > c) look for both on the internet > 2) Stop wasting your money and endangering yourself with phony "herbs" > and "supplements" You can NOT afford those scams, and, they are usually > bad for diabetics. > 3) After you get a prescription, either post on the NG, or email me > privately.  I know LOTS of ways to get cheap or free meds. – you are NOT > the only uninsured person in the US. > 4) Good thing stopping smoking > 5) You HAVE to have regular eye exams, from an opthomologist – or, one > day SOON you will wake up blind.  Again  there are lots of options which > might get you free, or reduced cost care. > People who get flamed on the groups are people who come on to a > newsgroup of long time diabetics and TELL us what WE should do, because > they (newbie, troll, scammers, or spammers) know EVERYTHING. (or want to > get rich off of us) > People who try and learn will usually get a number of points of view and > possibly useful answers. > We can be a bit rough – and you may run into trolls like the Chung, the > Watchtroll, or one of Momma Betty’s Aspartame trolls, and spammers like > herb pushers, BioDeath, Manatech, or their ilk – but they pass.  But, we > hope you stay, and that we can be of help to you > I waded thru all the postings that my server had stored for AHD and ASD and > MHD … close to 2000 … mostly from ASD … took me 4 days, almost > nonstop, sticks about every 2 hrs, eating something as often  ,,, was like > being inside a cross between a cloths dryer and a kaleidoscope !!! I’m spin > dizzy and comfrused. > I hope it is OK to post this to all three (this one time) … As I will > probably lurk in all of them. I don’t plan on revealing much about myself as > I am very poor, have not been diagnosed, and do not want to be diagnosed > until I can find some insurance. (and if I have learned anything from the > past 4 days about SOME of the people in here … what I just said is enough > to start a Dresden style fire storm along the lines of YOU MUST GO TO A > DOC… etc;.) Before you even start … > (1) Do try to have some compassion for a unique individual, (me), and even > though I may be totally misguided … YOU do NOT have the RIGHT to dictate > to me … so unless you believe in coercion … please don’t tell me that I > SHOULD or MUST or OUGHT etc. to do ‘this’ or ‘that’ … I will NOT respond > … If you try too hard … I will tell NewsRover to block you without even > informing you. I DO respond to logical argument and reasoning and gentle > persuasion, when I perceive it is done with

caring/affection/concern/love – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> AND it meshes with MY conscience. > BTW: (a quick aside) Lord Acton coined a Diction, which I rewrote (I’m a > ghost and technical writer, freelance, and need more work, so …. please > … ) … anyhow the revised version goes like this: The FALSE belief that > one person can or does have POWER over another person or persons … > CORRUPTS the person holding said belief … And, if said belief includes > ABSOLUTE POWER, its holder IS CORRUPTED ABSOLUTELY !!! > (2) Do respect my privacy, as if it were you own most heart held possession. > I have no idea what you all can find out about me, (but I have a clue from > some of your anti-spammers’ recent posts) … I haven’t the skill to even > try to hide or confuse what my OS (win98) or news reader (NewsRover) makes > available to you. So I just have to trust you from the get-go, I hope you’re > up to it. > I know that almost all of the above is ‘ground rules’ instead of ‘on topic’ > … but I HAD to say it (I am scared, vulnerable, confused and alone except > for my cat) … NOW: do I understand correctly that questions of a > medical/tech nature should be made to AHD and supportive/social items should > be posted to ASD ??? Then what’s to be posted to MHD? > My sister is type 2, 10 days ago, she fed me lavishly, I downed about 3 > cokes, ice cream sandwiches for desert… the about an hour later said "I > think you are diabetic, here, let me test you." Worst part was she had to > explain a lot of things, especially what 475 mg/dL means and what normal is > supposed to be. Honestly, I didn’t go into denial, but I did pull my head in > and re-evaluate REALITY and incidentally myself image for several days. > I am male, 54′, 260 lbs, Caucasian (is race a factor? – there: my first > question), after that first stick I’ve had a low reading of 145 once (it had > to be false … I’ve since learned that squeezing the finger tip to get the > blood out puts out more plasma and gives false low reading) and a high of > 375. in the last 18 hrs: 269, 281, 294, 364, 335, 294, 248, 231, & 240. > yesterday a high of 338 2 hrs after breakfast, and a low of 221 before > dinner, the rest all over in between (ave 260) … the 3 days before > slightly higher but getting generally lower, with some spikes. about 8+ > sticks a day. eat a little of this … see what happens … eat a little of > that … see what happens … try to keep each 2 hr meal under about 15 > carbs, no raw sugars/starches, up to about 200 calories (x12/day = about > 2400+/-) reading a lot of labels and looking a lot of things up. my #s > indicate to me that I’m in serious trouble and I hope and pray that I got > the wake up call in time. > passing no ketones, but passing 100-1000 mg/dL glucose about 6 times a day > (no pattern to the up/down). I have always drank at least a gallon of water > a day, do a pass a lot of water. I don’t seem to be particularly continually > thirsty … tested that … lots of saliva after 6 hours with no liquid. > Switched to weak Lipton green tea with 1oz lemon juice per 1/2 gal (that’s > my drinking jug size), no sweetener/no sugar, (conscience or intuition and > slim facts moved me to this switch to green tea as a > antioxidant/diuretic/purgative??? I’ll try it for a while, unless you all > give me reason otherwise)… does anybody know if Lipton green tea has > caffeine? how much? (would check with Lipton if was day) (is caffeine > contraindicated?) > have been taking wide and detailed vitamins, minerals, and herbals every day > for almost ever (several months at a time, skip a month ( reality check ), > go at it again … ) stopped now to eliminate any effect they may have been > having (one was ginseng, and a little of EVERYTHING conceivable else, but > not an excessive amount of anything) … > BP mid 130s over mid 80s almost al the time, been that way since I was 19 > and in college … at that time was diagnosed (unofficially) hypoglycemia > after a 4 hr glucose tolerance test. not severe, friend doc said eat every 3 > hours until I started registering hunger on a regular basis. bought a alarm > wrist watch and ate every 3 hrs for couple of years. gradually lost interest > as all seemed normal. night sweats mild and seldom … > have mild sleeping apnea … better since I quit smoking about 3 months ago > … cold turkey … had been smoking slightly less than a pack a day of > ultra lights for about 25 yrs. > minor itching in between toes and bottom of toes and balls of feet … using > Micatin and Scholl foot powder to eliminate the possibility of it being > athelete’s foot ( I hope it is ). will know in another 2 weeks according to > the directions. > no change in vision in years, far sighted slightly, not quite mild > astigmatism almost vertical axis (from reading in the dark as a kid, I’m > told ???), > Last full physical about 3 yrs ago was told all well except what I was doing > to myself : A. lose weight (285 at that time), B. stop smoking, C. exercise. > Now (started a week ago) 15 minutes a day on a stair stepper (make sure Bg > is less that 300) reasonable starting workout, sweat at 5 min. winded at 15. > will work it up to 30 min 6 days/week. and  now at lowest toughness level of > 3 will wind up at toughest level and max min in about 6 months. > Only been testing daily and often since Bayer sent me a new meter which > arrived on the 17th. Sis had an old Bayer lancet machine and meter but the > meter didn’t work right and Bayer was nice enough to send me a new newer one > and instructions (sis didn’t have them) and a case and a box of disks and a > bag of lancets and calibrating solution. the latter three have not arrived > yet. So I am using disks (test strips) that are a year expired, but checking > against sis’s other type of meter with current strips seems to indicate that > I’m getting reasonably accurate readings. it will be nice to calibrate the > meter and run a current disk thru it. How I’m going to afford disks when I > run out I don’t know … but I will find a way !!! Yes, the 3 day rethink > exited with among other things RESOLVE.  And I acknowledge that I neeeed > help: at least information and ideas and options, and hopefully > acquaintances

… read more »

Response:

> Thoughts, questions, suggestions, comments welcome.

What does your doctor say? What Rxs did s/he give? And your BP should be a little lower; it is recommended that diabetics have lower BP than "normals." — "Did Father shoot him? I will eat Grandfather for dinner." – Helen Keller, on learning of the death of her grandfather

Response:

> What does your doctor say? What Rxs did s/he give?

I guess the following wasn’t explicit enough … I am very poor, have not been diagnosed, and do not want to be diagnosed until I can find some insurance. Therefore, I clarify: (1) I don’t have a doctor. (2) I haven’t been diagnosed. (3) I have not been Rx’ed. > And your BP should be a little lower; it is recommended that diabetics > have lower BP than "normals."

Thank you for the suggestion.. How low should it be, ideally? What would be a good way to get it there? I’m hoping that as I increase my exercise slowly and stick to it, that BP will go down, but I have no idea how much that might help. ?? Losing weight, after I get my glucose #s into better shape might help BP as well. tnx quirque — whoever takes umbrage when none was intended … is a fool. whoever takes umbrage when it was intended … is a STUPID fool.

Response:

> If you think you are diabetic type 2, then have a look on the net for > metabolic syndrome aka syndrome x.  It is a combination of problems > most type 2 diabetics start out with – higher BP, high cholesterol, > higher BG etc.

I will. BWT is there some way I can test for/monitor my own cholesterol? >The common treatment for BP in diabetics is an ACE > inhibitor as it offers some degree of protection to the kidneys.

I suppose ACE is a prescription item… Are over the counter diuretics (Doan’s or Dewitts) OK for diabetics if BP only needs to come down a little? >The best protection for kidneys is of course lowering the bg’s > dramatically to near normal, kidneys tend to go belly up rather easily > in an out of control diabetic.  Here is an interesting article on BP > in diabetics: > http://www.americanheart.org/presenter.jhtml?identifier=3015383

Thanks, good article, also signed up for ‘heart of diabetes’. > Do you qualify for Medicare by the way?

No. Thanks again, Quirque — whoever takes umbrage when none was intended … is a fool. whoever takes umbrage when it was intended … is a STUPID fool.

Response:

cc’d by email sigh You are on a newsgroup – you better get a little less shy if you want to   get the most out of it 1) You HAVE to go to a doctor – no choice.         a) check your local papers for ads for programs looking for diabetics to study – they will provide, at a minimum,  free medical visits and labs         b) Check your local health department and the local hospitals. SOMETIMES there are free, or very low cost diabetic screening programs.         c) look for both on the internet 2) Stop wasting your money and endangering yourself with phony "herbs" and "supplements" You can NOT afford those scams, and, they are usually bad for diabetics. 3) After you get a prescription, either post on the NG, or email me privately.  I know LOTS of ways to get cheap or free meds. – you are NOT the only uninsured person in the US. 4) Good thing stopping smoking 5) You HAVE to have regular eye exams, from an opthomologist – or, one day SOON you will wake up blind.  Again  there are lots of options which might get you free, or reduced cost care. People who get flamed on the groups are people who come on to a newsgroup of long time diabetics and TELL us what WE should do, because they (newbie, troll, scammers, or spammers) know EVERYTHING. (or want to get rich off of us) People who try and learn will usually get a number of points of view and possibly useful answers. We can be a bit rough – and you may run into trolls like the Chung, the Watchtroll, or one of Momma Betty’s Aspartame trolls, and spammers like herb pushers, BioDeath, Manatech, or their ilk – but they pass.  But, we hope you stay, and that we can be of help to you – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I waded thru all the postings that my server had stored for AHD and ASD and > MHD … close to 2000 … mostly from ASD … took me 4 days, almost > nonstop, sticks about every 2 hrs, eating something as often  ,,, was like > being inside a cross between a cloths dryer and a kaleidoscope !!! I’m spin > dizzy and comfrused. > I hope it is OK to post this to all three (this one time) … As I will > probably lurk in all of them. I don’t plan on revealing much about myself as > I am very poor, have not been diagnosed, and do not want to be diagnosed > until I can find some insurance. (and if I have learned anything from the > past 4 days about SOME of the people in here … what I just said is enough > to start a Dresden style fire storm along the lines of YOU MUST GO TO A > DOC… etc;.) Before you even start … > (1) Do try to have some compassion for a unique individual, (me), and even > though I may be totally misguided … YOU do NOT have the RIGHT to dictate > to me … so unless you believe in coercion … please don’t tell me that I > SHOULD or MUST or OUGHT etc. to do ‘this’ or ‘that’ … I will NOT respond > … If you try too hard … I will tell NewsRover to block you without even > informing you. I DO respond to logical argument and reasoning and gentle > persuasion, when I perceive it is done with caring/affection/concern/love > AND it meshes with MY conscience. > BTW: (a quick aside) Lord Acton coined a Diction, which I rewrote (I’m a > ghost and technical writer, freelance, and need more work, so …. please > … ) … anyhow the revised version goes like this: The FALSE belief that > one person can or does have POWER over another person or persons … > CORRUPTS the person holding said belief … And, if said belief includes > ABSOLUTE POWER, its holder IS CORRUPTED ABSOLUTELY !!! > (2) Do respect my privacy, as if it were you own most heart held possession. > I have no idea what you all can find out about me, (but I have a clue from > some of your anti-spammers’ recent posts) … I haven’t the skill to even > try to hide or confuse what my OS (win98) or news reader (NewsRover) makes > available to you. So I just have to trust you from the get-go, I hope you’re > up to it. > I know that almost all of the above is ‘ground rules’ instead of ‘on topic’ > … but I HAD to say it (I am scared, vulnerable, confused and alone except > for my cat) … NOW: do I understand correctly that questions of a > medical/tech nature should be made to AHD and supportive/social items should > be posted to ASD ??? Then what’s to be posted to MHD? > My sister is type 2, 10 days ago, she fed me lavishly, I downed about 3 > cokes, ice cream sandwiches for desert… the about an hour later said "I > think you are diabetic, here, let me test you." Worst part was she had to > explain a lot of things, especially what 475 mg/dL means and what normal is > supposed to be. Honestly, I didn’t go into denial, but I did pull my head in > and re-evaluate REALITY and incidentally myself image for several days. > I am male, 54′, 260 lbs, Caucasian (is race a factor? – there: my first > question), after that first stick I’ve had a low reading of 145 once (it had > to be false … I’ve since learned that squeezing the finger tip to get the > blood out puts out more plasma and gives false low reading) and a high of > 375. in the last 18 hrs: 269, 281, 294, 364, 335, 294, 248, 231, & 240. > yesterday a high of 338 2 hrs after breakfast, and a low of 221 before > dinner, the rest all over in between (ave 260) … the 3 days before > slightly higher but getting generally lower, with some spikes. about 8+ > sticks a day. eat a little of this … see what happens … eat a little of > that … see what happens … try to keep each 2 hr meal under about 15 > carbs, no raw sugars/starches, up to about 200 calories (x12/day = about > 2400+/-) reading a lot of labels and looking a lot of things up. my #s > indicate to me that I’m in serious trouble and I hope and pray that I got > the wake up call in time. > passing no ketones, but passing 100-1000 mg/dL glucose about 6 times a day > (no pattern to the up/down). I have always drank at least a gallon of water > a day, do a pass a lot of water. I don’t seem to be particularly continually > thirsty … tested that … lots of saliva after 6 hours with no liquid. > Switched to weak Lipton green tea with 1oz lemon juice per 1/2 gal (that’s > my drinking jug size), no sweetener/no sugar, (conscience or intuition and > slim facts moved me to this switch to green tea as a > antioxidant/diuretic/purgative??? I’ll try it for a while, unless you all > give me reason otherwise)… does anybody know if Lipton green tea has > caffeine? how much? (would check with Lipton if was day) (is caffeine > contraindicated?) > have been taking wide and detailed vitamins, minerals, and herbals every day > for almost ever (several months at a time, skip a month ( reality check ), > go at it again … ) stopped now to eliminate any effect they may have been > having (one was ginseng, and a little of EVERYTHING conceivable else, but > not an excessive amount of anything) … > BP mid 130s over mid 80s almost al the time, been that way since I was 19 > and in college … at that time was diagnosed (unofficially) hypoglycemia > after a 4 hr glucose tolerance test. not severe, friend doc said eat every 3 > hours until I started registering hunger on a regular basis. bought a alarm > wrist watch and ate every 3 hrs for couple of years. gradually lost interest > as all seemed normal. night sweats mild and seldom … > have mild sleeping apnea … better since I quit smoking about 3 months ago > … cold turkey … had been smoking slightly less than a pack a day of > ultra lights for about 25 yrs. > minor itching in between toes and bottom of toes and balls of feet … using > Micatin and Scholl foot powder to eliminate the possibility of it being > athelete’s foot ( I hope it is ). will know in another 2 weeks according to > the directions. > no change in vision in years, far sighted slightly, not quite mild > astigmatism almost vertical axis (from reading in the dark as a kid, I’m > told ???), > Last full physical about 3 yrs ago was told all well except what I was doing > to myself : A. lose weight (285 at that time), B. stop smoking, C. exercise. > Now (started a week ago) 15 minutes a day on a stair stepper (make sure Bg > is less that 300) reasonable starting workout, sweat at 5 min. winded at 15. > will work it up to 30 min 6 days/week. and  now at lowest toughness level of > 3 will wind up at toughest level and max min in about 6 months. > Only been testing daily and often since Bayer sent me a new meter which > arrived on the 17th. Sis had an old Bayer lancet machine and meter but the > meter didn’t work right and Bayer was nice enough to send me a new newer one > and instructions (sis didn’t have them) and a case and a box of disks and a > bag of lancets and calibrating solution. the latter three have not arrived > yet. So I am using disks (test strips) that are a year expired, but checking > against sis’s other type of meter with current strips seems to indicate that > I’m getting reasonably accurate readings. it will be nice to calibrate the > meter and run a current disk thru it. How I’m going to afford disks when I > run out I don’t know … but I will find a way !!! Yes, the 3 day rethink > exited with among other things RESOLVE.  And I acknowledge that I neeeed > help: at least information and ideas and options, and hopefully > acquaintances and friends. > Gotta plan on the exercise. Trying not to stress  (BP would indicate I’m > reasonably OK) I think that I am in glucose toxicity. I think that I need to > get my #s down to ?normal? or near, to get out of toxicity, so that the > numbers will mean something more real, so that I quit passing Gl. so that I > can get to a place where I can build a more permanent plan. Please correct > me if I’m wrong. Thoughts, questions, suggestions, comments welcome. Oh, > BTW, I’ve got thick skin literally and figuratively … sticks barely hurt > and I hope you can’t push any of my ‘emote’ buttons. > thanks in advance, > quique

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> What does your doctor say? What Rxs did s/he give? > I guess the following wasn’t explicit enough … > I am very poor, have not been diagnosed, and do not want to be > diagnosed until I can find some insurance. > Therefore, I clarify: (1) I don’t have a doctor. (2) I haven’t been > diagnosed. (3) I have not been Rx’ed. > And your BP should be a little lower; it is recommended that > diabetics have lower BP than "normals." > Thank you for the suggestion.. How low should it be, ideally? What > would be a good way to get it there? > I’m hoping that as I increase my exercise slowly and stick to it, > that BP will go down, but I have no idea how much that might help. ?? > Losing weight, after I get my glucose #s into better shape might help > BP as well.

If you think you are diabetic type 2, then have a look on the net for metabolic syndrome aka syndrome x.  It is a combination of problems most type 2 diabetics start out with – higher bp, high cholesterol, higher bg’s etc.  The common treatment for bp in diabetics is an ACE inhibitor as it offers some degree of protection to the kidneys.  The best protection for kidneys is of course lowering the bg’s dramatically to near normal, kidneys tend to go belly up rather easily in an out of control diabetic.  Here is an interesting article on BP in diabetics: http://www.americanheart.org/presenter.jhtml?identifier=3015383 Do you qualify for medicare by the way?

Response:

I waded thru all the postings that my server had stored for AHD and ASD and MHD … close to 2000 … mostly from ASD … took me 4 days, almost nonstop, sticks about every 2 hrs, eating something as often  ,,, was like being inside a cross between a cloths dryer and a kaleidoscope !!! I’m spin dizzy and comfrused. I hope it is OK to post this to all three (this one time) … As I will probably lurk in all of them. I don’t plan on revealing much about myself as I am very poor, have not been diagnosed, and do not want to be diagnosed until I can find some insurance. (and if I have learned anything from the past 4 days about SOME of the people in here … what I just said is enough to start a Dresden style fire storm along the lines of YOU MUST GO TO A DOC… etc;.) Before you even start … (1) Do try to have some compassion for a unique individual, (me), and even though I may be totally misguided … YOU do NOT have the RIGHT to dictate to me … so unless you believe in coercion … please don’t tell me that I SHOULD or MUST or OUGHT etc. to do ‘this’ or ‘that’ … I will NOT respond … If you try too hard … I will tell NewsRover to block you without even informing you. I DO respond to logical argument and reasoning and gentle persuasion, when I perceive it is done with caring/affection/concern/love AND it meshes with MY conscience. BTW: (a quick aside) Lord Acton coined a Diction, which I rewrote (I’m a ghost and technical writer, freelance, and need more work, so …. please … ) … anyhow the revised version goes like this: The FALSE belief that one person can or does have POWER over another person or persons … CORRUPTS the person holding said belief … And, if said belief includes ABSOLUTE POWER, its holder IS CORRUPTED ABSOLUTELY !!! (2) Do respect my privacy, as if it were you own most heart held possession. I have no idea what you all can find out about me, (but I have a clue from some of your anti-spammers’ recent posts) … I haven’t the skill to even try to hide or confuse what my OS (win98) or news reader (NewsRover) makes available to you. So I just have to trust you from the get-go, I hope you’re up to it. I know that almost all of the above is ‘ground rules’ instead of ‘on topic’ … but I HAD to say it (I am scared, vulnerable, confused and alone except for my cat) … NOW: do I understand correctly that questions of a medical/tech nature should be made to AHD and supportive/social items should be posted to ASD ??? Then what’s to be posted to MHD? My sister is type 2, 10 days ago, she fed me lavishly, I downed about 3 cokes, ice cream sandwiches for desert… the about an hour later said "I think you are diabetic, here, let me test you." Worst part was she had to explain a lot of things, especially what 475 mg/dL means and what normal is supposed to be. Honestly, I didn’t go into denial, but I did pull my head in and re-evaluate REALITY and incidentally myself image for several days. I am male, 54′, 260 lbs, Caucasian (is race a factor? – there: my first question), after that first stick I’ve had a low reading of 145 once (it had to be false … I’ve since learned that squeezing the finger tip to get the blood out puts out more plasma and gives false low reading) and a high of 375. in the last 18 hrs: 269, 281, 294, 364, 335, 294, 248, 231, & 240. yesterday a high of 338 2 hrs after breakfast, and a low of 221 before dinner, the rest all over in between (ave 260) … the 3 days before slightly higher but getting generally lower, with some spikes. about 8+ sticks a day. eat a little of this … see what happens … eat a little of that … see what happens … try to keep each 2 hr meal under about 15 carbs, no raw sugars/starches, up to about 200 calories (x12/day = about 2400+/-) reading a lot of labels and looking a lot of things up. my #s indicate to me that I’m in serious trouble and I hope and pray that I got the wake up call in time. passing no ketones, but passing 100-1000 mg/dL glucose about 6 times a day (no pattern to the up/down). I have always drank at least a gallon of water a day, do a pass a lot of water. I don’t seem to be particularly continually thirsty … tested that … lots of saliva after 6 hours with no liquid. Switched to weak Lipton green tea with 1oz lemon juice per 1/2 gal (that’s my drinking jug size), no sweetener/no sugar, (conscience or intuition and slim facts moved me to this switch to green tea as a antioxidant/diuretic/purgative??? I’ll try it for a while, unless you all give me reason otherwise)… does anybody know if Lipton green tea has caffeine? how much? (would check with Lipton if was day) (is caffeine contraindicated?) have been taking wide and detailed vitamins, minerals, and herbals every day for almost ever (several months at a time, skip a month ( reality check ), go at it again … ) stopped now to eliminate any effect they may have been having (one was ginseng, and a little of EVERYTHING conceivable else, but not an excessive amount of anything) … BP mid 130s over mid 80s almost al the time, been that way since I was 19 and in college … at that time was diagnosed (unofficially) hypoglycemia after a 4 hr glucose tolerance test. not severe, friend doc said eat every 3 hours until I started registering hunger on a regular basis. bought a alarm wrist watch and ate every 3 hrs for couple of years. gradually lost interest as all seemed normal. night sweats mild and seldom … have mild sleeping apnea … better since I quit smoking about 3 months ago … cold turkey … had been smoking slightly less than a pack a day of ultra lights for about 25 yrs. minor itching in between toes and bottom of toes and balls of feet … using Micatin and Scholl foot powder to eliminate the possibility of it being athelete’s foot ( I hope it is ). will know in another 2 weeks according to the directions. no change in vision in years, far sighted slightly, not quite mild astigmatism almost vertical axis (from reading in the dark as a kid, I’m told ???), Last full physical about 3 yrs ago was told all well except what I was doing to myself : A. lose weight (285 at that time), B. stop smoking, C. exercise. Now (started a week ago) 15 minutes a day on a stair stepper (make sure Bg is less that 300) reasonable starting workout, sweat at 5 min. winded at 15. will work it up to 30 min 6 days/week. and  now at lowest toughness level of 3 will wind up at toughest level and max min in about 6 months. Only been testing daily and often since Bayer sent me a new meter which arrived on the 17th. Sis had an old Bayer lancet machine and meter but the meter didn’t work right and Bayer was nice enough to send me a new newer one and instructions (sis didn’t have them) and a case and a box of disks and a bag of lancets and calibrating solution. the latter three have not arrived yet. So I am using disks (test strips) that are a year expired, but checking against sis’s other type of meter with current strips seems to indicate that I’m getting reasonably accurate readings. it will be nice to calibrate the meter and run a current disk thru it. How I’m going to afford disks when I run out I don’t know … but I will find a way !!! Yes, the 3 day rethink exited with among other things RESOLVE.  And I acknowledge that I neeeed help: at least information and ideas and options, and hopefully acquaintances and friends. Gotta plan on the exercise. Trying not to stress  (BP would indicate I’m reasonably OK) I think that I am in glucose toxicity. I think that I need to get my #s down to ?normal? or near, to get out of toxicity, so that the numbers will mean something more real, so that I quit passing Gl. so that I can get to a place where I can build a more permanent plan. Please correct me if I’m wrong. Thoughts, questions, suggestions, comments welcome. Oh, BTW, I’ve got thick skin literally and figuratively … sticks barely hurt and I hope you can’t push any of my ‘emote’ buttons. thanks in advance, quique

Response:

Question:

Isn’t semen high in iron?

Response:

I received the message below this morning in regards to this post of ‘questionable taste’. writes: It seems the message was placed by an automatic remailer originating through one Since noone can confirm this the best bet is to email the remailing service. X-Remailer-Contact:      http://80.65.224.85/POL/ In case my abuse address is unreachable: It is because it has been flooded by

Response:

>Now this is UNWANTED spam. Tell me when I ever did this? >Conni Brady

You JUST did it, by quoting the post in it’s entirety. Thanks a whole lot. Bev Remove the "SpamFree" for email, please.   Join us in the Diabetic-Talk Chatroom on UnderNet /server irc.undernet.org — /join #Diabetic-Talk More info: http://www.diabetic-talk.org/

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>Now this is UNWANTED spam. Tell me when I ever did this? >Conni Brady

You just did by not snipping. Cheers Alan, T2, Oz

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followed by a COMPLETELY UNNECESSARY re-post of a zillion lines of garbage. PLEASE, people! — Wes Groleau Daily Hoax: http://www.snopes2.com/cgi-bin/random/random.asp

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Now this is UNWANTED spam. Tell me when I ever did this? Conni Brady Aspartame Awareness www.bradymax.com/nzaa

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> The North American Man/Boy Love Association is both political and > educational. We work to organize support for boys and men who have or > desire consensual sexual and emotional relationships and to educate > society on their positive nature. We speak out against the oppression > endured by men and boys who love one another and support the right of > all people to consensual intergenerational relationships. Throughout > most of Western history (and not only Western), man/boy love has been > the primary form of homoeroticism, and it is this love for which NAMBLA > stands. NAMBLA was founded in 1978, within Boston’s gay and lesbian > community, in response to a witch hunt against man/boy lovers in that > city. Since then, NAMBLA has worked to build a community of support > through our publications and conferences. Our spokespeople raise > awareness of the issue in the media and academia, before community > groups, and among the general public. While NAMBLA’s members represent a > diversity of backgrounds and politics, we all share a libertarian, > humanistic attitude on sexuality. We believe that sex is good and > wholesome and that it is an important medium of personal expression. > NAMBLA condemns sexual abuse in all forms of coercion. We insist there > is a distinction between coercive and consensual sex. Laws that focus > only on the age of the participants fail to capture that distinction, > for they ignore the quality of the relationship. Differences in age do > not preclude mutual, loving interaction between persons any more than > differences in race or class. Some existing laws criminalize sexual > relationships that are loving and fully consensual. These laws are ill- > conceived and morally repugnant. As is our right, we advocate their > repeal. Nothing that we speak or write about is intended to advocate or > counsel the violation of such laws. NAMBLA calls for the empowerment of > youth in all areas, not just the sexual. We are against arbitrary > constraints on the rights and freedom of all, young and old. We support > greater economic, political, and social opportunities for young people > and denounce the rampant ageism that segregates and isolates them in > fear and mistrust. > North American Man/Boy Love Association NAMBLA’s legal and for real !! > USD $35/year, $50 overseas, $5 Sample to: NAMBLA Dept TB PO Box 174 > Midtown Station New York, NY 10018-0174 USA NEW WEB SITE: > http://www.nambla.org/ > Who loves ya. > Tom Hennesy > Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com > Man Is A Herbivore! http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/manisaherbivore > DEAD PEOPLE WALKING > http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/deadpeoplewalking

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> The North American Man/Boy Love Association

MEMBERS SHOULD ALL BE LINED UP AND SHOT!!!!! There, I fixed your post for you!

Response:

> The North American Man/Boy Love Association > MEMBERS SHOULD ALL BE LINED UP AND SHOT!!!!! > There, I fixed your post for you!

Shooting is too good for these perverts, Joe. I say turn ‘em loose one at a time, hands tied, in a stadium full of the parents of abused boys. — Evelyn "Since everything is but an apparition, perfect in being what it is, having nothing to do with good or bad, acceptance or rejection, one may well burst into laughter."    -Longchenpa

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<man/boy of steel drivel snipped> Get psychiatric treatment. Now. Please. Cheers Alan, T2, Oz

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > The North American Man/Boy Love Association is both political and > educational. We work to organize support for boys and men who have or > desire consensual sexual and emotional relationships and to educate > society on their positive nature. We speak out against the oppression > endured by men and boys who love one another and support the right of > all people to consensual intergenerational relationships. Throughout > most of Western history (and not only Western), man/boy love has been > the primary form of homoeroticism, and it is this love for which NAMBLA > stands. NAMBLA was founded in 1978, within Boston’s gay and lesbian > community, in response to a witch hunt against man/boy lovers in that > city. Since then, NAMBLA has worked to build a community of support > through our publications and conferences. Our spokespeople raise > awareness of the issue in the media and academia, before community > groups, and among the general public. While NAMBLA’s members represent a > diversity of backgrounds and politics, we all share a libertarian, > humanistic attitude on sexuality. We believe that sex is good and > wholesome and that it is an important medium of personal expression. > NAMBLA condemns sexual abuse in all forms of coercion. We insist there > is a distinction between coercive and consensual sex. Laws that focus > only on the age of the participants fail to capture that distinction, > for they ignore the quality of the relationship. Differences in age do > not preclude mutual, loving interaction between persons any more than > differences in race or class. Some existing laws criminalize sexual > relationships that are loving and fully consensual. These laws are ill- > conceived and morally repugnant. As is our right, we advocate their > repeal. Nothing that we speak or write about is intended to advocate or > counsel the violation of such laws. NAMBLA calls for the empowerment of > youth in all areas, not just the sexual. We are against arbitrary > constraints on the rights and freedom of all, young and old. We support > greater economic, political, and social opportunities for young people > and denounce the rampant ageism that segregates and isolates them in > fear and mistrust. > North American Man/Boy Love Association NAMBLA’s legal and for real !! > USD $35/year, $50 overseas, $5 Sample to: NAMBLA Dept TB PO Box 174 > Midtown Station New York, NY 10018-0174 USA NEW WEB SITE: > http://www.nambla.org/ > Who loves ya. > Tom Hennesy > Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com > Man Is A Herbivore! http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/manisaherbivore > DEAD PEOPLE WALKING > http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/deadpeoplewalking

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Sorry people. I did NOT mean to forward another copy of this guys garbage to the group. My newsreader sent it when I was sending it to his ISP. Technology – great when it works and annoying as all get out when it makes you look dumb. LOL

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >The North American Man/Boy Love Association is both political and >educational. We work to organize support for boys and men who have or >desire consensual sexual and emotional relationships and to educate >society on their positive nature. We speak out against the oppression >endured by men and boys who love one another and support the right of >all people to consensual intergenerational relationships. Throughout >most of Western history (and not only Western), man/boy love has been >the primary form of homoeroticism, and it is this love for which NAMBLA >stands. NAMBLA was founded in 1978, within Boston’s gay and lesbian >community, in response to a witch hunt against man/boy lovers in that >city. Since then, NAMBLA has worked to build a community of support >through our publications and conferences. Our spokespeople raise >awareness of the issue in the media and academia, before community >groups, and among the general public. While NAMBLA’s members represent a >diversity of backgrounds and politics, we all share a libertarian, >humanistic attitude on sexuality. We believe that sex is good and >wholesome and that it is an important medium of personal expression. >NAMBLA condemns sexual abuse in all forms of coercion. We insist there >is a distinction between coercive and consensual sex. Laws that focus >only on the age of the participants fail to capture that distinction, >for they ignore the quality of the relationship. Differences in age do >not preclude mutual, loving interaction between persons any more than >differences in race or class. Some existing laws criminalize sexual >relationships that are loving and fully consensual. These laws are ill- >conceived and morally repugnant. As is our right, we advocate their >repeal. Nothing that we speak or write about is intended to advocate or >counsel the violation of such laws. NAMBLA calls for the empowerment of >youth in all areas, not just the sexual. We are against arbitrary >constraints on the rights and freedom of all, young and old. We support >greater economic, political, and social opportunities for young people >and denounce the rampant ageism that segregates and isolates them in >fear and mistrust. >North American Man/Boy Love Association NAMBLA’s legal and for real !! >USD $35/year, $50 overseas, $5 Sample to: NAMBLA Dept TB PO Box 174 >Midtown Station New York, NY 10018-0174 USA NEW WEB SITE: >http://www.nambla.org/ >Who loves ya. >Tom Hennesy >Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com >Man Is A Herbivore! http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/manisaherbivore >DEAD PEOPLE WALKING >http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/deadpeoplewalking

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> The North American Man/Boy Love Association is both political and

<snippo> Ack!  The watchtroll is back with more things unrelated to diabetes.  Got to killfile him again! — Type 2 http://users.bestweb.net/~jbove/

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The North American Man/Boy Love Association is both political and educational. We work to organize support for boys and men who have or desire consensual sexual and emotional relationships and to educate society on their positive nature. We speak out against the oppression endured by men and boys who love one another and support the right of all people to consensual intergenerational relationships. Throughout most of Western history (and not only Western), man/boy love has been the primary form of homoeroticism, and it is this love for which NAMBLA stands. NAMBLA was founded in 1978, within Boston’s gay and lesbian community, in response to a witch hunt against man/boy lovers in that city. Since then, NAMBLA has worked to build a community of support through our publications and conferences. Our spokespeople raise awareness of the issue in the media and academia, before community groups, and among the general public. While NAMBLA’s members represent a diversity of backgrounds and politics, we all share a libertarian, humanistic attitude on sexuality. We believe that sex is good and wholesome and that it is an important medium of personal expression. NAMBLA condemns sexual abuse in all forms of coercion. We insist there is a distinction between coercive and consensual sex. Laws that focus only on the age of the participants fail to capture that distinction, for they ignore the quality of the relationship. Differences in age do not preclude mutual, loving interaction between persons any more than differences in race or class. Some existing laws criminalize sexual relationships that are loving and fully consensual. These laws are ill- conceived and morally repugnant. As is our right, we advocate their repeal. Nothing that we speak or write about is intended to advocate or counsel the violation of such laws. NAMBLA calls for the empowerment of youth in all areas, not just the sexual. We are against arbitrary constraints on the rights and freedom of all, young and old. We support greater economic, political, and social opportunities for young people and denounce the rampant ageism that segregates and isolates them in fear and mistrust. North American Man/Boy Love Association NAMBLA’s legal and for real !! USD $35/year, $50 overseas, $5 Sample to: NAMBLA Dept TB PO Box 174 Midtown Station New York, NY 10018-0174 USA NEW WEB SITE: http://www.nambla.org/ Who loves ya. Tom Hennesy Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com Man Is A Herbivore! http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/manisaherbivore DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/deadpeoplewalking

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Question:

Shedding Tears May Help Diabetics Watch Sugar Yahoo! News Tuesday, September 16, 2003 Indraprasth (Reuters Health) – Diabetics have sugar in their tears and the amount present is a good predictor of blood sugar levels, new research shows. Dr. P. R. Chatterjee and colleagues, from the Regional Institute of Ophthalmology in Kolkata, India, studied the link between tear and blood levels of sugar in 200 people attending their clinic. Tear sugar levels were estimated with a special test strip–the Dextrostix–that was placed near the lower eyelid. Tear sugar levels were strongly linked to blood levels, the researchers report in the Journal of Association of Physicians of India. The Dextrostix test was useful in identifying people with normal blood sugar levels and people with increased levels. The amount of sugar in "tears changes proportionately with the blood level," the authors explain. "The method is very cheap and hence may have a role in community screening programs of diabetes with very little expense," they add. SOURCE: Journal of Association of Physicians of India, August 2003. Read the complete news at: http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=571&ncid=751&e=2&u=/n… News Plus http://www.mantra.com/newsplus Jai Maharaj http://www.mantra.com/jai Om Shanti Panchaang for 21 Bhadrapad 5104, Tuesday, September 16, 2003: Shubhanu Nama Samvatsare Dakshinaya Jivana Ritau      Kanya Mase Krishna Pakshe Mangal Vasara Yuktayam Krittik-Rohini Nakshatr Harshan-Vajr Yog      Vanij-Vishti Karan Shasthi-Saptami Yam Tithau Hindu Holocaust Museum http://www.mantra.com/holocaust Hindu life, principles, spirituality and philosophy http://www.hindu.org http://www.hindunet.org The truth about Islam and Muslims http://www.flex.com/~jai/satyamevajayate      o  Not for commercial use. Solely to be fairly used for the educational purposes of research and open discussion. The contents of this post may not have been authored by, and do not necessarily represent the opinion of the poster. The contents are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.      o  If you send private e-mail to me, it will likely not be read, considered or answered if it does not contain your full legal name, current e-mail and postal addresses, and live-voice telephone number.      o  Posted for information and discussion. Views expressed by others are not necessarily those of the poster.

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BS Why don’t they spend their research dollars on something useful? BJ

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> BS > Why don’t they spend their research dollars on something useful? > BJ

Are you in northern Texas? Jai Maharaj http://www.mantra.com/jai Om Shanti

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> Are you in northern Texas?

No!

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> > Are you in northern Texas? > No!

In Austin, perhaps? Jai Maharaj http://www.mantra.com/jai Om Shanti

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>>>Are you in northern Texas? >No! > In Austin, perhaps?

What’s it to you, you predatory maggot? His/her location has nothing to do with participation in this thread. Got mangoes, you nazi jyotishithead?

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Question:

Anyone know off hand what it takes to be a CDE? I have an AA from UCF on a Psych/Respiratory Therapy major, so I have a decent biological background… Diabetics are sweet people

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>Anyone know off hand what it takes to be a CDE? I have an AA from UCF >on a Psych/Respiratory Therapy major, so I have a decent biological >background… >Diabetics are sweet people

   It takes a lot.  http://www.ncbde.org/eligibilityreq.html   a.  Professional degree and/or medical person-type license   b.  Two years of experience as a diabetes educator after satisfying "a"   c.   1000 hours of interaction with diabetic patients in the last 5 years   d.   Current employment as a diabetes educator,  at least 4 hr/wk    e.   Pass the certification exam Regards   Old Al

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>Anyone know off hand what it takes to be a CDE?

Hi, I’m an RN and it does take quite a bit of education and training….I found the following infomation at :   http://www.east.asu.edu/ecollege/nutrition/undergraduate/diabetes_edu… I’m sure you could find more by using a good internet search engine and typing in  Certified Diabetes Educator… I did and got approxamately  29,000 hits. What are the eligibility requirements for the certification? The applicant must hold a current unrestricted United States license  as a registered nurse,  pharmacist, physician, physician assistant, podiatrist, physical therapist, or occupational therapist, or registration as a dietician by the Commission On Dietetic Registration,  OR be a health care professional with a minimum of a master’s degree from a United States college or university in one of the following areas of health care practice: nutrition, social work, clinical psychology, exercise physiology, health education or specified areas of study in public health.* After meeting education requirements and before applying for the Certification Examination, the applicant must have a minimum of two (2) calendar years experience in diabetes patient and self-management education. Within those two years, or up to five (5) calendar years prior to the date of application for the examination, the applicant must have worked a minimum of 1000 hours in diabetes patient and self-management education. The applicant must be engaged in the practice of diabetes patient and self-management education at the time of the application for the Certification Examination. The applicant must complete and submit a current application for the Certification Examination for Diabetes Educators and pay the examination fee. Where can I get more information? American Association of Diabetes Educators 100 West Monroe Street Suite 400 Chicago, IL 60603-1901 Ruthie Up here in Michigan. Type 2, Avandamet/Lantus insulin. @—>—– Friends multiply joy and divide sorrow! and……. Seen on a sign in rural Ohio…."Happiness is an Inside Job!"

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> The applicant must complete and submit a current application for the > Certification Examination for Diabetes Educators and pay the examination fee.

In which you must, with a straight face, pretend to believe all the wrong answers that CDEs insist on telling us. — Wes Groleau Curmudgeon’s Complaints on Courtesy: http://www.onlinenetiquette.com/courtesy1.html (Not necessarily my opinion, but worth reading)

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My experience with CDE’s that you should be able to: a) carry around plastic examples of the major food groups, b) spell carbohydrate, c) have a snitty attitude, d)treat those people asking for information as one would treat children. Not being able to answer the phone helps, as well.  Oh..don’t forget being able to figure out the business end of a syringe helps tremendously. As in any other form of quackerie, a firewall of training/education/experience is set up to keep the common garden variety person from trying to mimic their trickery. P.S.  I’d check the laws in your local area to see if serving portions of plastic food groups are legal to obtain. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Anyone know off hand what it takes to be a CDE? I have an AA from UCF > on a Psych/Respiratory Therapy major, so I have a decent biological > background… > Diabetics are sweet people

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The ladies that were my CDE’s for pump and carb, etc. training were a delight to work with, always up, with a good attitude.  While I was getting the basals right, I called the CDE everyday, even on the weekends, and the holidays, never did she NOT call me right back!  I have no idea of what the other things that they taught other diabetics, rather new or old ones.  It may have made a difference because I am R.N. with 32 yrs experience and have had this damn disease for almost 50 years!   I guess that this is another example of YMMV.  Just my own experience!!   Mic Always, be, and stay AWARE!

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>> The applicant must complete and submit a current application for the > Certification Examination for Diabetes Educators and pay the examination >fee. >In which you must, with a straight face, >pretend to believe all the wrong answers

ROFL…. that’s correct!!!!!  I would just go nuts trying to do this.  Being a diabetic I’d rather not!  :) Ruthie Up here in Michigan. Type 2, Avandamet/Lantus insulin. @—>—– Friends multiply joy and divide sorrow! and……. Seen on a sign in rural Ohio…."Happiness is an Inside Job!"

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Question:

> I know I’m treading into possible quack land and do so only with > considerable trepidation. > Anyway, I would be interested in hearing from anyone with direct > experience, pro or con, with removal of amalgams or gold crowns and T2 > diabetes.   snip > Guy

I’ve had almost all my ancient fillings replaced now and I feel no different. But then, I’ve never had any chronic problems, either. I don’t think I had a tooth left unfilled by the time I hit 20, ditto my husband. Our son has near perfect teeth. Thank goodness for progress.

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>>My only experiences with amalgam replacement has been in cases where people >were being poisoned by mercury leachate from them. > I had read this was quack science although I admit I do not know much > about it.

It is quack "science", and you can read more about it here: http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/mercury.html or here for a quicker summary: http://www.dentalwatch.org/hg/points.html

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I know I’m treading into possible quack land and do so only with > considerable trepidation. > Anyway, I would be interested in hearing from anyone with direct > experience, pro or con, with removal of amalgams or gold crowns and T2 > diabetes. > The only reason I even consider it is that I have seen recovery from > chronic fatigue syndrome significantly enhanced by amalgam removal. > Kinesiology testing (questioned by many but which seems very helpful in > tests I have had done in the past) suggests that changing one of my > crowns to porcelin might be helpful with my T2 diabetes. > I’m well aware of the official dental association position, and that of > almost all other organizations, on amalgam removal.  They come right > out and call it fraud, quackery, etc. > But I would be interested in talking with anyone who has tried it and > learning whether they thought it did any good. > Thanks. > Guy

Hi there Guy, There is still a lot of controversy over this. For more info on the side of amalgam fillings being the possible cause of some complaints, see; http://www.yourhealthbase.com/amalgams.html The author is convinced that after many years of investigation, removal of his amalgam fillings, and undergoing a mercury detoxification, finally cured his long term Lone Atrial Fibrillation.   There is some interesting reading about this on his site. The rest of the site is about other alternative health stuff, and seems pretty good. Me,  I don’t know, I had all my amalgam fillings, along with all my teeth, removed when I was still in my teens! I still got T2 diabetes in my mid thirties. Annette — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

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> Hi Julie, > Interesting this discussion just popped up when I have just spent a year and > lots of cash in having it all done. > Also, interestingly enough, I do feel a hell of a lot better, but I don’t > know whether it was due to having my diabetes discovered and treated since > last year, or whether it is really due to having all my ancient mercury > leaking fillings taken out!

I have a ton of fillings and (I think) 3 crowns.  Only my most recent fillings are not amalgam.  The dentist I saw in CA didn’t like amalgam. > I definitely have fibromyalgia, and I definitely was pre-diabetic, both!

I was told I had Fibromyalgia.  I think there is a definite link to that and thyroid problems.  I had been on far too high a dose of Synthroid/Levoxyl. Once I was on the correct dose, my symptoms abated. <snip> — Type 2 http://users.bestweb.net/~jbove/

Response:

>> My only experiences with amalgam replacement has been in cases where > people were being poisoned by mercury leachate from them. > I had read this was quack science although I admit I do not know much > about it.

There _is_ a lot of quack science revolving around amalgam replacement as an all encompassing curative. Same goes for "whole body washing" with IV chelation therapy and EDTA. But, depending on how long ago the fillings were emplaced and therefore how much mercury was used in the amalgam, leachate is a known problem in the medical community and there are accepted practices for the removal of mercury from your system by chelation, just like any other case of heavy metal poisoning. The leachate problem is primarily seen in GERD sufferers, where nocturnal bathing of the teeth with refluxed stomach acid is a primary cause. Regards, James the Elder

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I know I’m treading into possible quack land and do so only with > considerable trepidation. > Anyway, I would be interested in hearing from anyone with direct > experience, pro or con, with removal of amalgams or gold crowns and T2 > diabetes. > The only reason I even consider it is that I have seen recovery from > chronic fatigue syndrome significantly enhanced by amalgam removal. > Kinesiology testing (questioned by many but which seems very helpful in > tests I have had done in the past) suggests that changing one of my > crowns to porcelin might be helpful with my T2 diabetes. > I’m well aware of the official dental association position, and that of > almost all other organizations, on amalgam removal.  They come right > out and call it fraud, quackery, etc. > But I would be interested in talking with anyone who has tried it and > learning whether they thought it did any good. > My sister in law had hers removed.  This was back during a time when she was > very ill and nobody could figure out what was wrong with her.  Did it help > her in any way?  No.  And a few years after having this procedure done, they > finally did diagnose various illnesses.  What was one of them? > Pre-diabetes.  I say don’t waste your money. > — > Type 2 > http://users.bestweb.net/~jbove/

Hi Julie, Interesting this discussion just popped up when I have just spent a year and lots of cash in having it all done. Also, interestingly enough, I do feel a hell of a lot better, but I don’t know whether it was due to having my diabetes discovered and treated since last year, or whether it is really due to having all my ancient mercury leaking fillings taken out! I definitely have fibromyalgia, and I definitely was pre-diabetic, both! The reason I don’t regret having the fillings all redone is because: Reason  #1…..Now I don’t have to worry about all my ancient fillings falling out or rotting from when I was 17 years old (am now 62) …..probably for the rest of my life, barring some odd circumstance (after all, teeth can always act up again, but it is highly unlikely now). Reason #2 ….. Now I have a hollywood smile So what the heck, I was told by many dentists over the years that my teeth really needed to be redone as a "whole mouth restoration" job.   And I was told by several natural doctors that I had so much amalgam in my mouth it certainly could be the cause of my fibromyalgia, or at least aggravating it. I have to tell you I haven’t felt this good in years, but I don’t know which thing helped me the most.   Treating my diabetes has been helpful, but I am convinced that getting rid of those leaky ancient fillings was helpful too. — Evelyn "Since everything is but an apparition, perfect in being what it is, having nothing to do with good or bad, acceptance or rejection, one may well burst into laughter."    -Longchenpa

Response:

I had my amalgams removed, it took two visits to the dentist. I now have perfect teeth. I sometimes admire them sitting in their glass on my nightstand. I did feel much since the removal, not sure it was the amalgam though. Oldspook

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I know I’m treading into possible quack land and do so only with > considerable trepidation. > Anyway, I would be interested in hearing from anyone with direct > experience, pro or con, with removal of amalgams or gold crowns and T2 > diabetes. > The only reason I even consider it is that I have seen recovery from > chronic fatigue syndrome significantly enhanced by amalgam removal. > Kinesiology testing (questioned by many but which seems very helpful in > tests I have had done in the past) suggests that changing one of my > crowns to porcelin might be helpful with my T2 diabetes. > I’m well aware of the official dental association

position, and that of – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> almost all other organizations, on amalgam removal.  They come right > out and call it fraud, quackery, etc. > But I would be interested in talking with anyone who has tried it and > learning whether they thought it did any good. > Thanks. > Guy

Response:

> Anyway, I would be interested in hearing from anyone with direct > experience, pro or con, with removal of amalgams or gold crowns and T2 > diabetes.

My only experiences with amalgam replacement has been in cases where people were being poisoned by mercury leachate from them. This was followed by an extensive course of chelation therapy with DMSA. > I’m well aware of the official dental association position, and that > of almost all other organizations, on amalgam removal.  They come > right out and call it fraud, quackery, etc.

Not in all cases. Regards, James the Elder

Response:

> Kinesiology is the study of human movement. > How does that correlate to Human Dentistry.?

Applied Kinesiology is a system using muscle testing.  I’ve had it used to assess nutritional supplements for example. Guy

Response:

> Kinesiology is the study of human movement. > How does that correlate to Human Dentistry.? > Applied Kinesiology is a system using muscle testing.  I’ve had it used > to assess nutritional supplements for example.

I have a Masters in Exercise Science/Physiology from Rice University, lots of Kiniesiology classes, and I still do not see the tie-in to Dentistry, or nutritional supplements. Please explain. This sounds a bit like quackery to me. Is this the Goodheart Scam? SS

Response:

> I have a Masters in Exercise Science/Physiology from Rice > University, lots of Kiniesiology classes, and I still do not see > the tie-in to Dentistry, or nutritional supplements. Please > explain. This sounds a bit like quackery to me. Is this the > Goodheart Scam?

This is OT to my question about diabetes and amalgams.  I’m not interested in discussing AK. Guy

Response:

> … > I’m well aware of the official dental association position, and that of > almost all other organizations, on amalgam removal.  They come right > out and call it fraud, quackery, etc. > But I would be interested in talking with anyone who has tried it and > learning whether they thought it did any good.

        Well, it’s tough making decisions on anecdotal evidence.   I’m not really sure what I think of the issue.         Nevertheless, while I don’t have personal experience, an ex-girlfriend has been removing amalgams from her teeth as she could afford it for some time now.  She claims to be sensitive to metal in general, and in particular, she says she feels much better with the amalgams out of her month.  She’s very enthusiastic about it.                         E

Response:

> I know I’m treading into possible quack land and do so only with > considerable trepidation. > Anyway, I would be interested in hearing from anyone with direct > experience, pro or con, with removal of amalgams or gold crowns and T2 > diabetes. > The only reason I even consider it is that I have seen recovery from > chronic fatigue syndrome significantly enhanced by amalgam removal. > Kinesiology testing (questioned by many but which seems very helpful in > tests I have had done in the past) suggests that changing one of my > crowns to porcelin might be helpful with my T2 diabetes.

Kinesiology is the study of human movement. How does that correlate to Human Dentistry.? SS

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I know I’m treading into possible quack land and do so only with > considerable trepidation. > Anyway, I would be interested in hearing from anyone with direct > experience, pro or con, with removal of amalgams or gold crowns and T2 > diabetes. > The only reason I even consider it is that I have seen recovery from > chronic fatigue syndrome significantly enhanced by amalgam removal. > Kinesiology testing (questioned by many but which seems very helpful in > tests I have had done in the past) suggests that changing one of my > crowns to porcelin might be helpful with my T2 diabetes. > I’m well aware of the official dental association position, and that of > almost all other organizations, on amalgam removal.  They come right > out and call it fraud, quackery, etc. > But I would be interested in talking with anyone who has tried it and > learning whether they thought it did any good.

My sister in law had hers removed.  This was back during a time when she was very ill and nobody could figure out what was wrong with her.  Did it help her in any way?  No.  And a few years after having this procedure done, they finally did diagnose various illnesses.  What was one of them? Pre-diabetes.  I say don’t waste your money. — Type 2 http://users.bestweb.net/~jbove/

Response:

I know I’m treading into possible quack land and do so only with considerable trepidation. Anyway, I would be interested in hearing from anyone with direct experience, pro or con, with removal of amalgams or gold crowns and T2 diabetes.   The only reason I even consider it is that I have seen recovery from chronic fatigue syndrome significantly enhanced by amalgam removal.   Kinesiology testing (questioned by many but which seems very helpful in tests I have had done in the past) suggests that changing one of my crowns to porcelin might be helpful with my T2 diabetes. I’m well aware of the official dental association position, and that of almost all other organizations, on amalgam removal.  They come right out and call it fraud, quackery, etc. But I would be interested in talking with anyone who has tried it and learning whether they thought it did any good. Thanks. Guy

Response:

i had all amalgam fillings replaced as they needed it using either gold inlay or porcelain inlays/crowns/caps as required i noticed that the terrible taste in my mouth finally went away no health benefits though…. just no more tasting that awful amalgam kate Join us in the Diabetic-Talk Chatroom on UnderNet /server irc.undernet.org — /join #Diabetic-Talk More info: http://www.diabetic-talk.org/

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I know I’m treading into possible quack land and do so only with > considerable trepidation. > Anyway, I would be interested in hearing from anyone with direct > experience, pro or con, with removal of amalgams or gold crowns and T2 > diabetes. > The only reason I even consider it is that I have seen recovery from > chronic fatigue syndrome significantly enhanced by amalgam removal. > Kinesiology testing (questioned by many but which seems very helpful in > tests I have had done in the past) suggests that changing one of my > crowns to porcelin might be helpful with my T2 diabetes. > I’m well aware of the official dental association position, and that of > almost all other organizations, on amalgam removal.  They come right > out and call it fraud, quackery, etc. > But I would be interested in talking with anyone who has tried it and > learning whether they thought it did any good. > Thanks. > Guy

Response:

Question:

Such a nice presentation and I really appreciate it. Larry.. T2/02

Response:

>(snipped) >         There is no research that I’m aware of that shows the sulfs "wear down" > or kill beta cells.  In fact, I believe the UKPDS found no difference > between diabetics taking sulfs and those not.  Nevertheless, it’s an > idea that’s commonly voiced among diabetics.  

Eldritch: I think you have made some good points. There is only one person that I know of that participates in this newsgroup that was a long time users of sulfs and that person is no longer on prescription diabetic meds. That person mainly depends on diet to control bg. Frank

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->(snipped) >         There is no research that I’m aware of that shows the sulfs "wear down" > or kill beta cells.  In fact, I believe the UKPDS found no difference > between diabetics taking sulfs and those not.  Nevertheless, it’s an > idea that’s commonly voiced among diabetics. > Eldritch: > I think you have made some good points. There is only one person that I > know of that participates in this newsgroup that was a long time users > of sulfs and that person is no longer on prescription diabetic meds. > That person mainly depends on diet to control bg. > Frank

Hmm, I was on a sulph for a number of years.   I now control with D. & E. relying more heavily on the diet side. What ever. Ok, here’s my take on it, anyway.  One of the reason many doctors hesitate to precrivbe a sulph initially, is because sulphs are the main cause of hypos in T2’s.  Serious, life threatening hypos. Now they have metformin, and it is the med of choice.  Hypos are VERY rare, in only a very small percentage of genetically susceptible people. Why I ended up on a sulph is another story, but I did encounter another disadvantage to it’s long term usage. There’s a good chance it may be involved in causing certain kinds of heart attacks –  because of the chemical way it works to get the beta cells to release insulin.  That same chemical also affects other cells, opening the calcium channels in the blood vessels. As for whether it "wears out" the beta cells,  there is no evidence to date that it does that.  What has been shown recently is that hyperglycaemia, and other inflamatory processes, are involved. Many of the supps etc that a lot of diabetics take are anti-inflamatories, and actually help the beta cells function better, thus lowering bg levels.  For some reason, a faulty immune system is common to all diabetes, T1 or T2.  So anti-inflamatories *may* help preserve your remaining beta cells. To date, in many countries they are still not recognised as prescribed medications,  but some places do see them that way.  I guess there’s not so much profit in the humble aspirin or Vit C for instance, (both are GOOD anti-inflamatories), so the supp market reaps the profit from the newer ones.  Still, many of them are found in simple common food sources. So eat your veges, your meat, and your oils,  they are doing you good.  Truly,  I kid you not.  It’s worth looking up "best food sources" for some of those expensive supps. Annette — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Response:

Seems like I heard some where that the glyburide type drugs wear down the beta cell capacity hence Docs tend to hold off prescribing them until absolutely needed. Is this just a myth or? Thanks.. Larry

Response:

> Seems like I heard some where that the glyburide type drugs wear down the beta > cell capacity hence Docs tend to hold off prescribing them until absolutely > needed. Is this just a myth or? Thanks.. > Larry

        Glyburide is from the family of drugs called "sulfonylureas."  They work by stimulating the pancreas to make more insulin and until fairly recently, they were the only oral anti-diabetic drugs available. Within the last few years a number of other drugs, which work differently, have become available.         There is no research that I’m aware of that shows the sulfs "wear down" or kill beta cells.  In fact, I believe the UKPDS found no difference between diabetics taking sulfs and those not.  Nevertheless, it’s an idea that’s commonly voiced among diabetics.  I think there are a couple reasons for this.         First, diabetes has always been considered a progressive disease.  It gets worse over time, probably because beta cells continue to die. Over the decades that sulfs were the only oral med, people/patients noticed that the longer they took them, the larger the dose they needed and many went on to require insulin injections.   So it’s easy to make an association between the two things:  take sulfs and see your beta cells die off.         The problem with this is that associations are not proof.  Something else could be killing off the beta cells, which would then require more medication to control your glucose levels.   Personally, I think this is a pretty reasonable explanation.  Type 2 is generally considered a disease of insulin resistance, but we are not the only insulin resistant people in the world.  All fat people are insulin resistant and most of them are not diabetic.   Because they’re insulin resistant, they produce more insulin than thin people and I read somewhere recently that to do that they produce more beta cells.  As much as 1/3rd more beta cells than thin people.   So the the thing that makes us diabetic is that our beta cells are dying and theirs aren’t.         It’s said that by the time the typical T2 is diagnosed, he’s lost 80% of his beta cells.  So something is already killing off our beta cells.   That’s how we became diabetic in the first place.  If we start taking sulfs after we’re diagnosed, that thing is still out there killing off our beta cells.  But then people just blame it on the sulfs.         The other reason sulfs get blamed, I think, is because of an analogy to machinery. If you run a machine at high speed for a long time, it’s going to wear out faster.  So people fear that stimulating the pancreas to make more insulin will do the same thing.  Maybe.  But then it’s just an analogy.  It’s not medical research.  Here’s another analogy.  If you work something hard, it will get stronger.  Gubernatorial candidate Arnold Schwartzenegger will tell you that.  Work your muscles hard and they will get bigger and stronger.  Maybe pancreases work that way too.   Or maybe not.  No proof of that either.         A lot of people look at this set of unknowns and see it this way. Since other drugs are now available, perhaps it’s wise to play it safe and just avoid the sulfs.  Until something can be shown one way or the other, play it "better safe than sorry."         On the other hand, I have heard that high glucose levels are toxic to beta cells.  That’s why it’s usually harder to come back down from a high than to maintain an even level.  So normalizing your bgs can help preserve your beta cells         The thing is, no one knows why beta cells in T2 diabetics are dying off.  If they did, then they could work to find a way to stop it.  That would be a cure.   But they’re still fumbling around in the dark.  Maybe that lizard spit drug they’re talking about will be helpful.         As for what the docs prescribe, sulfs have long been the first line of defense for them.  An awful lot of them still go to the sulfs first, if the posts from new diabetics is any measure.  the -glitizones are generally considered a second line of defense.  And of course, most of them consider insulin a last resort.         A common side effect of the sulfs is weight gain, so if you’re fat or very fat, many doctors are beginning to try Glucophage first, since it doesn’t cause weight gain and often allows a one time weight loss when starting it.   Better dead than fat, you know.  ;-)         As for insulin, the results of some study was recently announced which found new diabetics immediately started on insulin preserved their beta cell function longer, so perhaps it should be first resort rather than a last resort.  A study like this makes me wonder if the anti-sulf people are correct, but it’s still hard to tell.                 E

Response:

Question:

 [  [  Wesley Thuro  [  Toronoto, Canada  [  416-587-5632 Day/Work  [ > does not contain your real name. > OK.  So, Sam Clemens was writing anonymously when he wrote . . .

Read this again and try to understand it: does not contain your real name. Jai Maharaj http://www.mantra.com/jai Om Shanti

Response:

> > And you use your real name?  It isn’t your birth-name, is it? > Of course, it is. And those whom I consider worthy of seeing > the evidence get to see it.

You’re lying. > My personal information is available to anyone who has a > good reason for asking. . . . > You have already published it publicly:

Correct.  Numerous times.  You said that I was a coward and hiding behind a fake name.  Since you’ve just proved that this isn’t so, it’s even more evidence that you’re a complete idiot. erf

Response:

 [  [  Wesley Thuro  [  Toronoto, Canada  [  416-587-5632 Day/Work  [ > You’re lying.

No, it is you who is lying. You have proven yourself to be a liar. Jai Maharaj http://www.mantra.com/jai Om Shanti

Response:

> No, it is you who is lying. You have proven yourself to be a liar.

What on earth are you on about?  You are making the case for everyone who has stated that you’re a bit of a whack-job. What have I lied about? moo

Response:

>>And you use your real name?  It isn’t your birth-name, is it? > Of course, it is. And those whom I consider worthy of seeing > the evidence get to see it.

Just like all your other lies, Johnny boya, such "evidence" simply does not exist, because "Jai" is not the name given you at birth. >My personal information is available to anyone who has a >good reason for asking. . . . > You have already published it publicly: >      Wesley Thuro >      Toronoto, Canada

How clever of you, Johnny boya! You pulled that off an ad by Mr. Thuro advertising his airplane for sale. By the way, are you ever going to take up James Randi’s challenge to prove that your bullshit jyotishit isn’t bullshit? I didn’t think so! Even a million dollars cannot make a silk purse out of the sow’s ear that is asstrollogy. Got mangoes, you piece of jyotishit?

Response:

 [  [  Wesley Thuro  [  Toronoto, Canada  [  416-587-5632 Day/Work  [ > What have I lied about?

You called me a liar, and that’s a lie. Jai Maharaj http://www.mantra.com/jai Om Shanti

Response:

>  [  Wesley Thuro >  [  Toronoto, Canada >  [  416-587-5632 Day/Work >  [ > What have I lied about? > You called me a liar, and that’s a lie.

Well, it should be simple for you to show where I did and exactly how I’m wrong.  And, BTW,  I guess that you lied when you claimed that I’m anonymous.  You disagree with that? You’re losing this one, not Jai.  Get back to spamming. erf

Response:

 [  [  Wesley Thuro  [  Toronoto, Canada  [  416-587-5632 Day/Work  [ > Dr. Jai Maharaj posted: >  [  Wesley Thuro >  [  Toronoto, Canada >  [  416-587-5632 Day/Work >  [ > > What have I lied about? > You called me a liar, and that’s a lie. > Well, it should be simple for you to show where I did and exactly how I’m > wrong.

It is quite simple. And, those who deserve to know it do. > And, BTW,  I guess that you lied when you claimed that I’m > anonymous.  You disagree with that?

does not contain your real name. Jai Maharaj http://www.mantra.com/jai Om Shanti

Response:

> > > > What have I lied about? > > You called me a liar, and that’s a lie. > Well, it should be simple for you to show where I did and exactly how I’m > wrong. > It is quite simple. And, those who deserve to know it do.

ROFLMAO!!!  That is about as close to an admission of a hopelss retreat as one ever gets on Usenet. > And, BTW,  I guess that you lied when you claimed that I’m > anonymous.  You disagree with that? > does not contain your real name.

OK.  So, Sam Clemens was writing anonymously when he wrote under the name "Mark Twain"?  This from a guy who is afraid to post his birth name or verifiable credentials. erf

Response:

Then you’re stating that if your information results in death, dismemberment, or disability, you are without blame because you are not responsible for it’s content or accuracy? Budd – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Since this isn’t your first error . . . > I have made no error, but you have in thinking that I have. > Jai Maharaj > http://www.mantra.com/jai > Om Shanti

Response:

Fucking hindi/urdu speaking idiots never learn english. Do these muslim wannabe gawars know what ‘enhance’ mean??? And, you sonmabitch Jai ‘Gandu’ Maharaj, don’t you sometime correct spelling and such in your illegal repostings? Perhaps, you did not catch the error??? Thanks everyone. Deb – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Diet supplements enhance insulin resistance in diabetics

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > > Why would one want to "enhance" insulin resistance? > > > Wouldn’t one want to "decrease" it?    We would want to enhance insulin > > > sensitivity. > > That’s how news is often reported in the popular media. > > Write to the source.  More importantly, it made you think > > about the issue. > Actually, it was just more confirmation that you’re a lying . . . > No, it is you who is a liar. It’s no wonder > that you, a coward, hide behind an anonymous name.

And you use your real name?  It isn’t your birth-name, is it?  My personal information is available to anyone who has a good reason for asking.  Every year or so, some spammer, like yourself, takes great pride in posting personal information about me in various NGs.  So adorable.  And, finally, you either didn’t read the article you posted or don’t understand shit about physiology.  Either way, you’re posting ridiculously incorrect information and you can’t respond with anything but insulting rhetoric when you’re called on it. le moo

Response:

>>Why would one want to "enhance" insulin resistance? >Wouldn’t one want to "decrease" it?    We would want to enhance insulin >sensitivity. > That’s how news is often reported in the popular media. > Write to the source.  More importantly, it made you think > about the issue.

No, Johnny boya! It maked people realize that you are no doctor, that you have no medical knowledge whatsoever, and that you don’t even understand the nuances of Indian English. You, Johnny boya, with your complete lack of medical knowledge, didn’t even understand the contradiction that Jennifer saw in it. Johnny boya, when, if ever, will you cease to perpetrate fraud? Your entire existence is a fraud: your name, your claimed religion, your claimed diet, your "concern" for living creatures ad nauseum. And where are my damn free mangoes, boya?

Response:

> And you use your real name?  It isn’t your birth-name, is it?

Of course, it is. And those whom I consider worthy of seeing the evidence get to see it. > My personal information is available to anyone who has a > good reason for asking. . . .

You have already published it publicly:      Wesley Thuro      Toronoto, Canada      416-587-5632 Day/Work Jai Maharaj http://www.mantra.com/jai Om Shanti

Response:

The article should have read Chromium enhances insulin action and not insulin resistance. Hindustan Times screwed up. Title: Chromium May Help Obese People Avoid Diabetes URL: http://www.pslgroup.com/dg/2D74A.htm Doctor’s Guide June 30, 1997 NEW YORK — June 30, 1997 — The results of a recent study demonstrate that daily supplementation with 1,000 micrograms of supplied as chromium picolinate significantly enhanced the action of insulin in moderately obese people with a high risk of developing type II (adult-onset) diabetes. Insulin is the master metabolic hormone in our body and regulates blood sugar; chromium is an essential trace mineral required by humans in order for insulin to work properly. In persons with the most common form of diabetes the effects of insulin on lowering blood sugar are reduced. This decrease in effect is referred to as insulin resistance, and is now believed to be the primary defect in type II diabetes. Years before any signs or symptoms of diabetes are seen in these at-risk individuals (such as those with a family history of diabetes), insulin resistance has already taken a toll on their blood sugar control. The study was a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled clinical trial directed by William Cefalu, M.D., director of the Diabetes Comprehensive Care and Research Program at the Bowman Gray School of Medicine, Wake Forest University. The results were presented at the 57th Annual Scientific Session of the American Diabetes Association Meeting in Boston, on June 23, 1997. The subjects were 29 overweight individuals who also had a family history of diabetes. They received either a placebo or 1,000 micrograms (1 mg) of chromium daily. After four months, insulin resistance was reduced by a statistically significant 40%, and this improvement was maintained at the end of eight months. Also examined in these subjects (using a sophisticated imaging technique) was the amount of abdominal fat present at the beginning and end of the study. The placebo group gained 6.5% abdominal fat while the chromium group gained just 1%. This difference was not statistically significant, possibly due to the small number of persons in the trial. "Even though only a small number of subjects were studied, the improvement in insulin sensitivity in chromium-supplemented subjects was quite significant and impressive," noted Dr. Cefalu. "This is a potentially important finding in light of the fact that insulin resistance often precedes type II diabetes. Chromium picolinate is a nutritional supplement that can reduce risk factors for the development of diabetes." "Dr. Cefalu’s findings are exciting and could prove to be of great importance if replicated in future studies," stated Richard Anderson, Ph.D., senior scientist at the United States Department of Agriculture’s Human Nutrition Laboratory in Beltsville, Md., and a leading authority on dietary chromium. "They are certainly consistent with our findings which were reported at last year’s ADA meeting: We found improved blood sugar control in a group of Chinese patients with type II diabetes who were supplemented with chromium." Copyright

Question:

>>Typically, my bg control is very good, however, yesterday I ate some >olive bread which caused my bg level to spike to about 240. If this >happens infrequently will this cause permanent damage ? The ADA wasn’t >clear on this issue. All responses will be appreciated. >Thanks >They weren’t clear because I think this is something that nobody knows.  We >do know that every time your BG goes above a certain number, damage occurs >to the body.  But what is that magical number?  Again, nobody knows for >sure.  Some say >180.  Some say >160.  Some say >140.  That’s why it’s best >to keep your BG in normal range.

My Doctor gave me these blood sugars figures for a T2 in November 2002 Fasting: 80-120 Pre-meals: under 110 Post meals 2.0 hours: ideal under 140, 120-170 is acceptable Jim T2

Response:

: John, I believe that every time we go over 160, we are causing damage, : That is the latest on spikes,  What is very infrequently,  Once a month, : once a year,  It all depends how often,  It is really not good to have : numbers that high,  It does cause damage.  If it is very very : infrequent, I would nt be hysterical, but I would not eat anything that : got me there. : Loretta : If you are a newbie, welcome to the group : — : In tribute to the United States of America and the State : of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and : terrorism. With all these talks of spike, I have a question.  What level is considered OK for a diabetic , say 15 mins after eating a mea.?  We all talk about testing at 1 and/or 2 hour pp and wht are considered good numbers.  what happens right after eating?  I know I could run my own tests, but not wishing to reinvent the wheel, or use up all my strips, I wonder if there is any information about this out there.  I imagine , depending on the foods eated, this number could be surprisingly high.  If so, what does this do to our bodies? Wendy  

Response:

> With all these talks of spike, I have a question.  What level is > considered OK for a diabetic , say 15 mins after eating a mea.?  We all > talk about testing at 1 and/or 2 hour pp and wht are considered good > numbers.  what happens right after eating?

It depends on you and the food you eat. If you slam down a Coke or two with dinner it could be quite high, the liquid gets absorbed very rapidly. If you have a "normal" meal it will take some time for the glucose to get into your blood. > I know I could run my own > tests, but not wishing to reinvent the wheel, or use up all my strips, I > wonder if there is any information about this out there.

Since everyone is different and since every one has a different diet this is really the only way to find out. Nor could there be a general answer to this kind of question. > I imagine , depending on the foods eated, this number could be surprisingly high.  If > so, what does this do to our bodies? > Wendy  

– K’neH’a'Iw Uncloaking, Shields up.

Response:

Al , my husband is king in my heart,  About me being Queen in his heart, you’ll have to ask him. LOL Thanks Loretta — In tribute to the United States of America and the State of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and terrorism.

Response:

well considering it takes about 60-90mins for carbs to begin to convert into glucose (slow carbs) you really shouldn’t see a spike before 45mins. now if you have a fast acting carb such as pure sugar or a coke, you should see results within 15mins. also everyone is different. so data collected wouldn’t perhaps be of benefit to "you" — RK T1 – 5/00

: : John, I believe that every time we go over 160, we are causing damage, : : That is the latest on spikes,  What is very infrequently,  Once a month, : : once a year,  It all depends how often,  It is really not good to have : : numbers that high,  It does cause damage.  If it is very very : : infrequent, I would nt be hysterical, but I would not eat anything that : : got me there. : : : Loretta : : : If you are a newbie, welcome to the group : : : — : : In tribute to the United States of America and the State : : of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and : : terrorism. : : With all these talks of spike, I have a question.  What level is : considered OK for a diabetic , say 15 mins after eating a mea.?  We all : talk about testing at 1 and/or 2 hour pp and wht are considered good : numbers.  what happens right after eating?  I know I could run my own : tests, but not wishing to reinvent the wheel, or use up all my strips, I : wonder if there is any information about this out there.  I imagine , : depending on the foods eated, this number could be surprisingly high.  If : so, what does this do to our bodies? : : Wendy : :

Response:

Wendy, at the rare times that I have tested very soon after eating, my numbers didnt rise instantly.  I found the highest to be at one hour and sometimes two if I have had more than my usual fat. We could drive ourselves crazy with all that testing,  I am not visiting that because then I will know I have an ocd about testing Loretta — In tribute to the United States of America and the State of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and terrorism.

Response:

John your aic is fabulous, congrats,  but dont think that that is a license to become indifferent to what you are eating,  I had the same number and I am trying to sustain that,  I am alright with going into the fives but I dont want to go above thatl I believe that a spike of over 160 at any time. short or long term, causes some damage to your cells,  Dont take it for granted. Loretta — In tribute to the United States of America and the State of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and terrorism.

Response:

> I believe that a spike of over 160 at any time. short or long term, > causes some damage to your cells,  Dont take it for granted.

URL, Loretta? Al.

Response:

: Typically, my bg control is very good, however, yesterday I ate some : olive bread which caused my bg level to spike to about 240. If this : happens infrequently will this cause permanent damage ? I would not chance it – but then again i am not in your shoes. i was dx’d with a fbs of 300 the next week i was 130 fbs – i do not believe i have been at either again.  but i do remember when i was scared poopless of carbs my control on my diet was unbelieveable i was perfect wieghing and counting everyting. how much is some olive bread? i definitly would not have seen 240 with out a fight. when ever *i* eat a new big meal i test test test.  i have to be honest tho i cant really remember if i seen 130 – i think the highest number i ever seen was 126 but i could be wrong. and i was hoppin on my stationary bike. do what you have to do with your life to be the most happy – but keep in mind good control has its rewards and bad control has its penilties. also i do believe my dx’d fbs of 300 was elevated cause of a gum infection i had at the time. try not to see diabetic numbers – but get a diet you can stick with. *I* look at it like this – everytime *I* see lol or when i do see them –  i would be worried at each time i spiked high i would increase my chance of diabetic complications. My doctor wasnt very clear or i think imformative is more like it. they cant really teach us everything there is to know about diabetes – it involves so many areas. everything from your toes to your eyes – i sorta made diabetes a hobby trying to learn as much about it as possible – but i learn i learn how it will work only for me. all you need is willpower and knowledge. The ADA wasn’t : clear on this issue. All responses will be appreciated. : Thanks : John if you dont exercise or need to lose wieght –  doing those things i would think would have helped you get better numbers on such meals. January 27 with be my first year – i was just given my best shot. — http://www.diabetes.org Shadow-Spirit 39 – Male – Type – 2 Dx’d January 27, 2003 330lbs now 264 A1C = 5.1 July 15

Response:

Al, what is a URL.  I believe it is the new standard by the American Diabetes Association and by word of my endocrinologist who is king in my mind. Loretta — In tribute to the United States of America and the State of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and terrorism.

Response:

> Al, what is a URL.  I believe it is the new standard by the American > Diabetes Association and by word of my endocrinologist who is king in my > mind. > Loretta

Hi Loretta, URL stands for *Uniform Resource Locator*, which is tecno_babble for web address. In other words, I was asking if you knew of a website where you found your info. And you did, the American Diabetes Association, thanx for that. I am pleased to hear you think well of your endocrinologist, but surely your husband should be *king in your heart*? I have no doubt you are *queen* in his. Al.

Response:

> URL, Loretta? > Al.

A lot more bad information has URLs than good information BJ

Response:

> > URL, Loretta? > Al. > A lot more bad information has URLs than good information BJ

Agreed, BJ. But only a little intelligence can pick out the good from the bad. Al.

Response:

> Typically, my bg control is very good, however, yesterday I ate some > olive bread which caused my bg level to spike to about 240. If this > happens infrequently will this cause permanent damage ? The ADA wasn’t > clear on this issue. All responses will be appreciated. > Thanks

They weren’t clear because I think this is something that nobody knows.  We do know that every time your BG goes above a certain number, damage occurs to the body.  But what is that magical number?  Again, nobody knows for sure.  Some say >180.  Some say >160.  Some say >140.  That’s why it’s best to keep your BG in normal range. — Type 2 http://users.bestweb.net/~jbove/

Response:

John, I believe that every time we go over 160, we are causing damage, That is the latest on spikes,  What is very infrequently,  Once a month, once a year,  It all depends how often,  It is really not good to have numbers that high,  It does cause damage.  If it is very very infrequent, I would nt be hysterical, but I would not eat anything that got me there. Loretta If you are a newbie, welcome to the group — In tribute to the United States of America and the State of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and terrorism.

Response:

Al, Thanks for responding. My A1C last month was 4.9.The 240 reading dropped to non diabetic numbers after 3 hours. I didn’t mean this was a sustained level. Does a spike that returns to normal after such a short time cause damage ? That would really answer my question. Thanks John

Response:

> Al, > Thanks for responding. My A1C last month was 4.9.The 240 reading > dropped to non diabetic numbers after 3 hours. I didn’t mean this was a > sustained level. Does a spike that returns to normal after such a short > time cause damage ? That would really answer my question. > Thanks John

Hi John, With an A1C like that you got no worries that I can see. Well done, absolutely fab!! I realise you meant a short-lived spike, and it almost certainly will NOT cause damage. Unfortunately nothing is for certain, except this: death and taxes >>> vbg <<<. Really, the A1C is so good that I think you need not worry about occasional spikes, they happen to us all dmers.. Go out and enjoy life, that what`s its for. And as far as dm is concerned, keep right on doing what you are doing, and then, no damage. Hope you are feeling encouraged by this. Al.

Response:

> Typically, my bg control is very good, however, yesterday I ate some > olive bread which caused my bg level to spike to about 240. If this > happens infrequently will this cause permanent damage ? The ADA wasn’t > clear on this issue. All responses will be appreciated. > Thanks > John

The real answer I suspect is that nobody really knows. Most effects of high blood sugar are the result of long term high levels blood glucose. Often people run well above 200 for years before being diagnosed. If an occasional spike cause lots of damage I would expect to find a much higher incidence of complications than appears to be the case in uncontrolled diabetics. Studies have found a very high correlation to A1c and complications and mortality, I would go by that, but try to keep the spikes down. I personally have never had a spike above 200 since I initially gained control, and don’t really plan to. Neither do I want to live in abject terror of going above 120 (my current PP target), although I do sometimes (about once a week). It would take all of the fun out of eating. Then there is the question of what occasional means. Once a week, once a month, once a year? To find the answer to your question would I think at least require a long term tracking study of many diabetics over many years with 5 or more tests per day. Given the variability within the population even that may not yield a clean answer. — K’neH’a'Iw Uncloaking, Shields up.

Response:

Typically, my bg control is very good, however, yesterday I ate some olive bread which caused my bg level to spike to about 240. If this happens infrequently will this cause permanent damage ? The ADA wasn’t clear on this issue. All responses will be appreciated. Thanks John

Response:

> Typically, my bg control is very good, however, yesterday I ate some > olive bread which caused my bg level to spike to about 240. If this > happens infrequently will this cause permanent damage ? The ADA wasn’t > clear on this issue. All responses will be appreciated. > Thanks > John

Hi John, It all depends on what you mean by *infrequent*. If you mean once or twice a year, no harm done. But if you mean once every 3 weeks or so, that is too often, and will probably cause damage. (Note: *probably*, not *certainly*). Non-diabetics never go anywhere near 240. Even if they deliberately try to force it, they can`t. My own DSN has proved this in front of my education groups own eyes. The usual advice is get as close to non-diabetic numbers as you can, but some ppl forget that tight control has a lower limit as well as an upper one. Al.

Response:

Question:

I’m writing for a co-worker friend of mine who is new to Diabetes and doesn’t own a computer. Bear with me, since I know little about the disease and she seems to know even less… Today "Jane" had a breakdown at work, where she was shaking and nauseous, and started crying. Our boss let her go home, we got her OJ and stuff so she felt good enough to leave. She doesn’t drive, so it wasn’t a concern that she’d be unable or unsafe to drive. (she busses) She was involved with a local support group, but because she doesn’t have a car and no computer, she feels very isolated and alone. She is not coping very well right now, and told me "I just don’t want this–I don’t want to deal with it."(not sounding very healthy or smart to me, but she is very fragile right now.) Details: she was DX a year ago, started on injectable insulin (Lamsent? sounded like thats what she said), then went to pills to be taken with each meal, and within the last month or so, the Dr put her on a 1x daily pill (Gluberite, 2.5mg). She is 37, the diabetes is hereditary in her family, she is not overweight and seems in normal health otherwise. Obviously, the pill isn’t working or she’s not eating right or something. She is going back to her doctor on Friday. She doesn’t want the injectable insulin, which is just awful and terrfying for her. Does anyone have any suggestions for her? Better coping/managemnet skills, books, support info, dietary recommendations..anything? It’s really hard with her not on a computer and no car, but I’d like to be able to help her take better control of this thing and learn to deal with it better. Obviously, with so many people having diabetes, there have to answers out there… Thanks SO MUCH for your time, Lisa (and Jane.)

Response:

> Details: she was DX a year ago, started on injectable insulin (Lamsent? > sounded like thats what she said), then went to pills to be taken with > each meal, and within the last month or so, the Dr put her on a 1x daily > pill (Gluberite, 2.5mg). She is 37, the diabetes is hereditary in her > family, she is not overweight and seems in normal health otherwise. > Obviously, the pill isn’t working or she’s not eating right or > something. She is going back to her doctor on Friday. She doesn’t want > the injectable insulin, which is just awful and terrfying for her.

It sounds like the pill worked too well, and her blood sugar dropped low and caused hypoglycemia. It can take some time and work and patience to work out how to juggle food, exercise, medicine, and just plain life to be healthy and happy with diabetes as well jumbling the mix. > Does anyone have any suggestions for her? Better coping/managemnet > skills, books, support info, dietary recommendations..anything? It’s > really hard with her not on a computer and no car, but I’d like to be > able to help her take better control of this thing and learn to deal > with it better. Obviously, with so many people having diabetes, there > have to answers out there… > Thanks SO MUCH for your time, > Lisa (and Jane.)

Has she got a glucometer? Does she use it when feeling out of sorts in any way? And if, goodness forbid, she wind up needing shots some day, there are plenty of us out here who have successfully gotten by with them for decades (roughly 35E 60rs now for me!), and we can offer support and experience.

Response:

> I’m writing for a co-worker friend of mine who is new to Diabetes and > doesn’t own a computer. Bear with me, since I know little about the > disease and she seems to know even less… > Today "Jane" had a breakdown at work, where she was shaking and > nauseous, and started crying. Our boss let her go home, we got her OJ > and stuff so she felt good enough to leave. She doesn’t drive, so it > wasn’t a concern that she’d be unable or unsafe to drive. (she busses) > She was involved with a local support group, but because she doesn’t > have a car and no computer, she feels very isolated and alone. She is > not coping very well right now, and told me "I just don’t want this–I > don’t want to deal with it."(not sounding very healthy or smart to me, > but she is very fragile right now.)

Unfortunately, "having a breakdown" doesn’t mean much.  The symptoms she had could have been a hypo (low blood sugar) or they may have been from high blood sugar.  Giving OJ isn’t the best thing to do unless you know she is having an actual hypo.  She should have tested her blood at this point to make sure.  It is also very easy to overtreat a hypo.  You say that you gave her OJ and stuff.  What was the "and stuff"?  Standard treatment for a hypo is 15g of fast acting carbs.  That would be about 4 oz. of OJ. As for the last part of your paragraph, that is very typical thinking, at least in the beginning or when one can’t get their BG (blood glucose/sugar) under control.  Not dealing with it is the worst thing she can do because high BG causes all sorts of complications.  But again, this is very typical. Most diabetics simply don’t deal with it other than to take a pill or something.  Those of us here are the minority.  We strive hard to keep in control. > Details: she was DX a year ago, started on injectable insulin (Lamsent? > sounded like thats what she said),

Probably Lantus. >then went to pills to be taken with > each meal, and within the last month or so, the Dr put her on a 1x daily > pill (Gluberite, 2.5mg). She is 37, the diabetes is hereditary in her > family, she is not overweight and seems in normal health otherwise.

Without knowing what the pills are that she takes with each meal, I can’t comment on that.  The other pills are called Glyburide.  If she is not overweight, there is a chance that she has type 1 and not type 2.  If this is the case, all the pills in the world aren’t going to help her.  Only insulin will. > Obviously, the pill isn’t working or she’s not eating right or > something. She is going back to her doctor on Friday. She doesn’t want > the injectable insulin, which is just awful and terrfying for her.

She may have no choice.  But without having additional tests to see what she is dealing wtih, she won’t know that.  Or perhaps her Dr. has already done such tests.  Pills don’t work for everyone.  Some type 2’s must use insulin too, at least at some point.  As for what happened today, it may have been a hypo.  This is a fact of life to a diabetic and often more scary to those around us than it is to us.  A hypo can happen for many reasons.  Not eating on time, not eating enough carbs, eating too much fat, getting too much exercise, taking too many meds, and sometimes for no apparent reason at all. Is she seeing an Endocrinologist?  If not, she probably should. > Does anyone have any suggestions for her? Better coping/managemnet > skills, books, support info, dietary recommendations..anything? It’s > really hard with her not on a computer and no car, but I’d like to be > able to help her take better control of this thing and learn to deal > with it better. Obviously, with so many people having diabetes, there > have to answers out there…

Is she testing her BG frequently?  That is essential.  Without knowing what her BG was at the time she felt unwell, it’s like shooting in the dark.  As for controlling BG, diet and exercise are vital.  But there is no simple diet.  There is no one diet that works for all of us.  Has she seen a dietician?  If not, that should be a first step.  If so, then perhaps she should go for another visit.  But basically, it is carbs that raise our BG. Carbs are found in many foods such as potatoes, bread, pasta, fruit, cereal, sweets, etc.  All vegetables contain carbs, but many contain so few carbs that they aren’t generally counted as such.  So it is the carbs we must watch out for the most.  Fat delays the absorption of carbs.  So a little fat in a meal or snack is good.  A lot of fat is not good because those carbs will hit our system later than we want them to.  This can cause a hypo (low BG) or a spike (high BG) later than we expect it. Unfortunately, even though diabetes is divided into type 1 and type 2, there are many other variables.  That is why there is no one diet that works for all of us.  Some people do well on a low carb diet.  I do not.  I find if I don’t eat enough carbs, I go hypo.  Yet others would not be able to eat as many carbs as I do. Some people can get by with diet and exercise alone.  Some need pills and/or insulin. And these needs change over time.  I’ve been off and on pills and had the type and amount of pills changed several times.  There are many things that can affect this.  One is the degree of insulin resistance which tends to increase over time.  We may find that we need more and more meds to cope with this.  Or we may find that while we have a great deal of insulin resistance, our bodies are producing less insulin so we must inject insulin to help us along.  Other things that affect our medication needs or our BG are weight loss/gain, stress, hormones (including periods and menopause), illness and thyroid problems. There are many books out there about diabetes.  I’ve found most of them to be a waste of money.  The best one I’ve found is the American Diabetes Association Complete Guide To Diabetes.  It’s not perfect in that it is somewhat outdated (at least the copy I have), and some of the information is rather vauge.  But it did tell me a lot of things I didn’t know. > Thanks SO MUCH for your time,

Hopefully Jane will be feeling better soon! > Lisa (and Jane.)

– Type 2 http://users.bestweb.net/~jbove/

Response:

She Absolutely MUST have a Blood-Glucose-Meter!!! , I got mine and 50 test-strips for about $30 . E-mail if you need details . She needs to test AT LEAST 3 times a day !!! And Especially if she feels Like that !!! More experienced people will reply Pronto . tim   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I’m writing for a co-worker friend of mine who is new to Diabetes and > doesn’t own a computer. Bear with me, since I know little about the > disease and she seems to know even less… > Today "Jane" had a breakdown at work, where she was shaking and > nauseous, and started crying. Our boss let her go home, we got her OJ > and stuff so she felt good enough to leave. She doesn’t drive, so it > wasn’t a concern that she’d be unable or unsafe to drive. (she busses) > She was involved with a local support group, but because she doesn’t > have a car and no computer, she feels very isolated and alone. She is > not coping very well right now, and told me "I just don’t want this–I > don’t want to deal with it."(not sounding very healthy or smart to me, > but she is very fragile right now.) > Details: she was DX a year ago, started on injectable insulin (Lamsent? > sounded like thats what she said), then went to pills to be taken with > each meal, and within the last month or so, the Dr put her on a 1x daily > pill (Gluberite, 2.5mg). She is 37, the diabetes is hereditary in her > family, she is not overweight and seems in normal health otherwise. > Obviously, the pill isn’t working or she’s not eating right or > something. She is going back to her doctor on Friday. She doesn’t want > the injectable insulin, which is just awful and terrfying for her. > Does anyone have any suggestions for her? Better coping/managemnet > skills, books, support info, dietary recommendations..anything? It’s > really hard with her not on a computer and no car, but I’d like to be > able to help her take better control of this thing and learn to deal > with it better. Obviously, with so many people having diabetes, there > have to answers out there… > Thanks SO MUCH for your time, > Lisa (and Jane.)

Response:

> I’m writing for a co-worker friend of mine who is new to Diabetes and > doesn’t own a computer. Bear with me, since I know little about the > disease and she seems to know even less… > Today "Jane" had a breakdown at work, where she was shaking and > nauseous, and started crying.

This sounds like a "hypo" (hypoglycaemia = low blood sugar).  We’ve all had them.  They’re not fun.  :-( > Our boss let her go home, we got her OJ and stuff so she felt good > enough to leave. She doesn’t drive, so it wasn’t a concern that she’d > be unable or unsafe to drive. (she busses) She was involved with a > local support group, but because she doesn’t have a car and no > computer, she feels very isolated and alone. She is not coping very > well right now, and told me "I just don’t want this–I don’t want to > deal with it."(not sounding very healthy or smart to me, but she is > very fragile right now.)

It sounds to me that her isolation could be the real problem, and the diabetes is merely the thing which has given this problem expression. Why doesn’t she have a computer?  Surely she could get one, somehow – if money’s a problem, you don’t need the latest Pentium 4 monster to use Usenet and the rest of the Internet.  Pick up ANY second hand computer which works.  (I’m doing just fine with a 6 year old 166Mhz machine.) Does she have a telephone? > Details: she was DX a year ago, started on injectable insulin (Lamsent? > sounded like thats what she said), then went to pills to be taken with > each meal, and within the last month or so, the Dr put her on a 1x > daily pill (Gluberite, 2.5mg). She is 37, the diabetes is hereditary in > her family, she is not overweight and seems in normal health otherwise. > Obviously, the pill isn’t working or she’s not eating right or > something. She is going back to her doctor on Friday. She doesn’t want > the injectable insulin, which is just awful and terrifying for her.

I know this won’t help much, but injections as such really aren’t that big a deal.  They don’t hurt.  Really.  (I’m speaking from 38 years experience here).  Probably the bodily invasion, volations of boundaries and so on is more the dynamic.  Maybe a psychologist, or some sort of therapist, could sort this out.  But it sounds like she doesn’t really need insulin, at least not yet. > Does anyone have any suggestions for her? Better coping/managemnet > skills, books, support info, dietary recommendations..anything? It’s > really hard with her not on a computer and no car, but I’d like to be > able to help her take better control of this thing and learn to deal > with it better. Obviously, with so many people having diabetes, there > have to answers out there…

Print out the articles in this thread, and give her them to read.  In fact, skim through recent threads and print out a few other relevant articles too.  See if there’s any way you can help her get fixed up with a computer, then teach her how to get into this newsgroup. Depending on how close the two of you are, maybe you could invite her round for a meal every now and then, or even let her stay overnight once in a while. > Thanks SO MUCH for your time, > Lisa (and Jane.)

– Alan Mackenzie (Munich, Germany) (like "aa"), remove half of them (leaving, say, "a").

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I’m writing for a co-worker friend of mine who is new to Diabetes and > doesn’t own a computer. Bear with me, since I know little about the > disease and she seems to know even less… > Today "Jane" had a breakdown at work, where she was shaking and > nauseous, and started crying. Our boss let her go home, we got her OJ > and stuff so she felt good enough to leave. She doesn’t drive, so it > wasn’t a concern that she’d be unable or unsafe to drive. (she busses) > She was involved with a local support group, but because she doesn’t > have a car and no computer, she feels very isolated and alone. She is > not coping very well right now, and told me "I just don’t want this–I > don’t want to deal with it."(not sounding very healthy or smart to me, > but she is very fragile right now.) > Details: she was DX a year ago, started on injectable insulin (Lamsent? > sounded like thats what she said), then went to pills to be taken with > each meal, and within the last month or so, the Dr put her on a 1x daily > pill (Gluberite, 2.5mg). She is 37, the diabetes is hereditary in her > family, she is not overweight and seems in normal health otherwise. > Obviously, the pill isn’t working or she’s not eating right or > something. She is going back to her doctor on Friday. She doesn’t want > the injectable insulin, which is just awful and terrfying for her. > Does anyone have any suggestions for her? Better coping/managemnet > skills, books, support info, dietary recommendations..anything? It’s > really hard with her not on a computer and no car, but I’d like to be > able to help her take better control of this thing and learn to deal > with it better. Obviously, with so many people having diabetes, there > have to answers out there… > Thanks SO MUCH for your time, > Lisa (and Jane.)

Hi there Lisa, You are a good friend and a caring person to this co-worker, to go to the trouble of contacting us. Right now she needs information and support – knowing what is going on can relieve a lot of her fear and anxiety, for starters. I think you are on the right track when you ask about books on the subject.  The best place to look for suitable books, initially, is her local library. In the health care section there’s bound to be books about diabetes. The librarian can not only help her find them, but tell her which ones are the most up-to-date.  One that many people recommend for the newly (and not so newly) diagnosed is "Diabetes for Dummies".  I personally haven’t read it, but it’s said to be one of the best, easy to understand, yet have all the necessary facts she needs to get started on understanding diabetes and it’s management.  Anyway, if she reads a few of them, she can then decide if she wants to buy one of them at a book store for reference for herself.  A book sure can be handy for looking something up, and understanding about what is going on, meters and how to use them, various medications and how they work, and what to do when there is a problem. Right now she is probably feeling anxious, ignorant and "guilty".  A horrible way to feel emotionally on top of the physical symptoms she is suffering. Another resource is her local hospital or community health service. Many of them run classes for diabetics, and she will not only get information and help but will be meeting others in the same boat. They may also provide diabetic counsellors (usually nurses), who can provide individual counselling, teach about using and injecting insulin, and give advice and encouragement.  Some places have self-help, face to face diabetic groups in their local communities. With these kind of services, I’m not clear on exactly where to find such things or what they are called, since I live in Australia, and our system is organised differently to what is available in other countries, but I have read other people here in this group talking about them.  The ADA may have lists or references on where to locate this help. I’ve used all of these kinds of helps in the past.  I only got a computer 2 yrs ago, and then found this group.  It’s been great, but not everyone has that option. Sometimes a local pharmacist was a good source for information about what was available and accessable near me, expecially when I moved to a new location.  Some doctors can advise where she can get assistance, others may not. So look around, and I bet you and she will soon find the help she needs RIGHT NOW.  First step, though, would  be the library.  Some of them have lists of local services as well. All the best, to a person with a big heart, Annette T2 diabetes for over 27yrs, 63 yo. — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Response:

>I’m writing for a co-worker friend of mine who is new to Diabetes and >doesn’t own a computer. Bear with me, since I know little about the >disease and she seems to know even less…

Certainly!  We’ll be happy to help! >Today "Jane" had a breakdown at work, where she was shaking and >nauseous, and started crying. Our boss let her go home, we got her OJ >and stuff so she felt good enough to leave. She doesn’t drive, so it >wasn’t a concern that she’d be unable or unsafe to drive. (she busses)

Sounds like either a low/high blood sugar episode, or a moment of emotionally losing it, or both. Did she have a blood glucose meter with her?  Did she take a reading to see what was happening?  For a diabetic, finding out what your bg is doing should be the first act whenever you start feeling off in any way. >She was involved with a local support group, but because she doesn’t >have a car and no computer, she feels very isolated and alone.

‘was’?  She’s not anymore? If mobility is a problem, perhaps she could have the group come to her.  Offer to feed them if they meet at her place; that should bring some of them. And why no computer?  It’s not as if they cost an arm and a leg, second hand… And the information and support a diabetic can get on line is invaluable… >She is >not coping very well right now, and told me "I just don’t want this–I >don’t want to deal with it."(not sounding very healthy or smart to me, >but she is very fragile right now.)

Well, heck; NONE of us want this, or want to deal with this.   It’s a major pain of a disease. But you don’t get a choice… >Details: she was DX a year ago, started on injectable insulin (Lamsent? >sounded like thats what she said), then went to pills to be taken with >each meal, and within the last month or so, the Dr put her on a 1x daily >pill (Gluberite, 2.5mg). She is 37, the diabetes is hereditary in her >family, she is not overweight and seems in normal health otherwise. >Obviously, the pill isn’t working or she’s not eating right or >something. She is going back to her doctor on Friday. She doesn’t want >the injectable insulin, which is just awful and terrfying for her.

Hm.  Since she was on insulin before, this rules out fear of the unknown.  I would assume she’s got a needle phobia or some other problem that makes this difficult for her. She needs to talk to her physician about her problems. If he doesn’t help her, she needs a new doctor. >Does anyone have any suggestions for her? Better coping/managemnet >skills, books, support info, dietary recommendations..anything? It’s >really hard with her not on a computer and no car, but I’d like to be >able to help her take better control of this thing and learn to deal >with it better. Obviously, with so many people having diabetes, there >have to answers out there…

There are answers.  The problem is, they’re different for everyone… If she doesn’t have a meter, get one immediately and start testing. Eat to the meter, breath to the meter, live to the meter until she figures out how her body responses to food, stress, and life.  Once she’s got that knowledge she’ll be in better shape. There are three legs to diabetic control:  Diet, exercise, and medication.  Some people can get along with just diet and exercise; but even if you’re on medication, you don’t dare neglect the other two.  In shape, correctly fed people are in control of their diabetes, not under its control. A computer would help her immensely.  If she can’t buy one, maybe she can make use of one at a local library or cyber-cafe… >Thanks SO MUCH for your time,

Our pleasure. >Lisa (and Jane.)

Tell her to hang in there, we’re all pulling for her. You, too.  Good friends are good to have. FW

Response:

It is Far Cheaper and Better to just buy a used Web-Tv ( Immune to Viruses ) They want 2/3 the price of a new comp ( discontinued-closeout ) for a piece of Somebody-Elses-Problem . I wish I had a Web-TV for me or mom , but you can not buy them new LocaLLy Anymore !!! I just had a friend quit-E-mail contact Blaiming for Not Doing something about a Virus-Worm that   I HAD ABSOULTELY    NO – WAY    OF KNOWING ABOUT AT ALL AT THE TIME !!! ( ESPECIALLY BY HER !!!( OH YEAH , she told me and blamed-me WELL AFTER THE FACT!!!)  :-(  :-(  :-(  :-(  :-(  :-(  :-(  :-( Sorry Venting .   Tim – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > It sounds to me that her isolation could be the real problem, and the > diabetes is merely the thing which has given this problem expression. > Why doesn’t she have a computer?  Surely she could get one, somehow – if > money’s a problem, you don’t need the latest Pentium 4 monster to use > Usenet and the rest of the Internet.  Pick up ANY second hand computer > which works.  (I’m doing just fine with a 6 year old 166Mhz machine.) > Does she have a telephone?

Response:

>>Does anyone have any suggestions for her? Better coping/managemnet >skills, books,

        Book:         THe First Year:  Type 2 Diabetes         by Gretchen Becker.                 great book.                                 E

Response:

: I’m writing for a co-worker friend of mine who is new to Diabetes and : doesn’t own a computer. Bear with me, since I know little about the : disease and she seems to know even less… Diabetes is a disease you must learn about. Not so much about the disease but how it effects the person. DM will not effect two people the same way. Meaning, we all have high/low glucose, that is about the extent of how we are simular. I can eat one food, whereas someone else might not be able to, or vise versa. Stress might make me go high whereas gives another a low. It’s quite complex. It’s all about experimenting with your own body, to test _your_ limits. : : Today "Jane" had a breakdown at work, where she was shaking and : nauseous, and started crying. Our boss let her go home, we got her OJ : and stuff so she felt good enough to leave. She doesn’t drive, so it : wasn’t a concern that she’d be unable or unsafe to drive. (she busses) Sounds like "Jane" has a nice low. NOT a high. Shaking doesn’t happen when you’re high, and you claim the OJ helped. If she was high, she’d wanted to take a nappy. Thats good she didn’t drive. : She was involved with a local support group, but because she doesn’t : have a car and no computer, she feels very isolated and alone. She is : not coping very well right now, and told me "I just don’t want this–I : don’t want to deal with it."(not sounding very healthy or smart to me, : but she is very fragile right now.) LOL.. like any of us wished to be diabetic? It’s something that happens none of us want it, we have been dealt the cards, now we must play the hand. We are all fragile at some point in our diagnosis. To expand your life you must learn to deal with it. Learn about yourself. Don’t let it run you, you must learn to run it. I suggest she seeks professional help, to help her learn to deal with this. It’s certainly not going to go away overnight. : : Details: she was DX a year ago, started on injectable insulin (Lamsent? : sounded like thats what she said), then went to pills to be taken with : each meal, and within the last month or so, the Dr put her on a 1x daily : pill (Gluberite, 2.5mg). She is 37, the diabetes is hereditary in her : family, she is not overweight and seems in normal health otherwise. : I would say the "Lamsent" was "Lantus" which is a very flat basal (long acting) insulin. It more then likely only kept her glucose stable. It doesn’t peak for most. Sounds like she’s still got plenty of her own insulin working and producing. the oral she’s on, helps stimulate the pancreas (if i recall) which is more then likely why she had the low. What do her bg’s normally run? what was her last A1C? What are her meals like? How often does she test? These are all things that need to be addressed, if her doctor isn’t helping her she needs to fire um and find one that will. It’s not easy sometimes, like buying a car.. gotta shop around. Don’t forget this is _YOUR LIFE_. : Obviously, the pill isn’t working or she’s not eating right or : something. She is going back to her doctor on Friday. She doesn’t want : the injectable insulin, which is just awful and terrfying for her. see above; pill works _too_ good! Insulin wouldn’t be the course of action, more then likely. She prolly could get away with diet and exercise to gain good control. Ofcourse depending upon what her bg’s run. (which you haven’t stated) : : Does anyone have any suggestions for her? Better coping/managemnet : skills, books, support info, dietary recommendations..anything? It’s : really hard with her not on a computer and no car, but I’d like to be : able to help her take better control of this thing and learn to deal : with it better. Obviously, with so many people having diabetes, there : have to answers out there… Dietary? she needs a referal to a dietician, pronto. Have her call the local ADA office and ask where there is a support group perhaps the coordinator of it, can transport her to/from the meetings or someone in the group. books? theres a few good ones out there, I do NOT recommend Bernstein though. if she’s not overweight she doesn’t need to low carb to an extreme and that’s what he recommends. If you have a local library with internet access, she could use that to access the info online/web/newsgroups. Have her ask her doctor for a referal to a CDE (Certified Diabetic Educator). There are lots of answers out here, but each person is so unique, not one answer will fit all. Good Luck. — RK T1 – 5/00 : : Thanks SO MUCH for your time, : : Lisa (and Jane.)

Response:

> >Today "Jane" had a breakdown at work, where she was shaking and >nauseous, and started crying. Our boss let her go home, we got her OJ >and stuff so she felt good enough to leave. She doesn’t drive, so it >wasn’t a concern that she’d be unable or unsafe to drive. (she busses)

i’m concerned if this was a low blood glucose episode….. the OJ will get her out of the low, but doesn’t have staying power she was still in danger of going low again while heading to the bus, and then she would have no one who knew what the problem was with her perhaps next time, she be allowed to remain at work until she’s had a meal as well to ensure that she isn’t going to pass out on the way to the bus, and by time she’s had a meal, she’ll be feeling a lot better too…… able to work just another thought on this matter…..the best course of action is for her to have a meter at work to be able to test her bg and find out exactly what is happening the diagnosis of diabetes is a tough one for people, and she may also be experiencing depression (reactive) as a result of the diagnosis {{{{{HUGS TO HER}}}}}} kate

Response:

>Does anyone have any suggestions for her? Better coping/managemnet >skills, books, support info, dietary recommendations..anything? It’s >really hard with her not on a computer and no car, but I’d like to be >able to help her take better control of this thing and learn to deal >with it better. Obviously, with so many people having diabetes, there >have to answers out there…

What works for ME (may or may not for your friend) is on my Diabetes page at my jtsmith link (below) John Thomas Smith http://www.direct2usales.com http://www.pacifier.com/~jtsmith

Response:

>  I do NOT recommend Bernstein > though. > if she’s not overweight she doesn’t need to low carb to an extreme and > that’s what > he recommends.

        Not everyone recommends BErnstein, but why would being thin be a reason not to recommend it?  Bernstein himself is a thin Type 1.  His low carb approach is a way to control glucose levels, not lose weight.                         E

Response:

i know for me, being a t1, even when i’ve tried his method i still loose weight which i don’t need to. there are other ways to control glucose other then starving yourself to death for the rest of your life. — RK T1 – 5/00

: >  I do NOT recommend Bernstein : > though. : > if she’s not overweight she doesn’t need to low carb to an extreme and : > that’s what : > he recommends. : > : : Not everyone recommends BErnstein, but why would being thin be a reason : not to recommend it?  Bernstein himself is a thin Type 1.  His low carb : approach is a way to control glucose levels, not lose weight. : : : E :

Response:

Lisa you are a very good friend,  Was Jane diagnosed as a type one or type two,  there are major differences. Is she testing her blood,  Someone is going to come along with all the things she needs to do,  She is having lows which are not a good thing She needs to stblize her bgs .  Her best defense will be testing her blood,  Some of us are great believers of testing,  I test six to seven times a day,  It tells me how much I can eat and how what I ate affected my bgs. If she is in denial, then she is not watching her carbs,  I hope she has a doctor she can talk to,  I hope you can continue to talk for us, and let us know how she is doing,  She does need support,  Are there any group in your city. Loretta — In tribute to the United States of America and the State of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and terrorism.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I’m writing for a co-worker friend of mine who is new to Diabetes and > doesn’t own a computer. Bear with me, since I know little about the > disease and she seems to know even less… > Today "Jane" had a breakdown at work, where she was shaking and > nauseous, and started crying. Our boss let her go home, we got her OJ > and stuff so she felt good enough to leave. She doesn’t drive, so it > wasn’t a concern that she’d be unable or unsafe to drive. (she busses) > She was involved with a local support group, but because she doesn’t > have a car and no computer, she feels very isolated and alone. She is > not coping very well right now, and told me "I just don’t want this–I > don’t want to deal with it."(not sounding very healthy or smart to me, > but she is very fragile right now.) > Unfortunately, "having a breakdown" doesn’t mean much.  The symptoms she had > could have been a hypo (low blood sugar) or they may have been from high > blood sugar.  Giving OJ isn’t the best thing to do unless you know she is > having an actual hypo.

Actually Julie, giving OJ is exactly the RIGHT thing to do in this situation. If she’s low, it’ll have an almost instant result in bringing her back to near normal levels, but if she’s high, she’ll only go a bit higher. it’s what ANY paramed would do if he was faced with the situation and wasn’t able to take a blood sample of a BG test. She should have tested her blood at this point to > make sure.

IF she had a meter.   It is also very easy to overtreat a hypo.  You say that you gave > her OJ and stuff.  What was the "and stuff"?  Standard treatment for a hypo > is 15g of fast acting carbs.  That would be about 4 oz. of OJ.

Overtreating a hypo isn’t much of a big deal in the greater scheme of things, and as she’s not been diabetic very long and apparently only had this one (what we suspect to be) hypo, overtreating it isn’t even a LITTLE bit of a big deal and it’s a far better option than her ending up having a siezure. > As for the last part of your paragraph, that is very typical thinking, at > least in the beginning or when one can’t get their BG (blood glucose/sugar) > under control.  Not dealing with it is the worst thing she can do because > high BG causes all sorts of complications.

Absolutely. But again, this is very typical. > Most diabetics simply don’t deal with it other than to take a pill or > something.

And leave all the responsibility in the hands of someone who won’t suffer the consequences in later years.   Those of us here are the minority.  We strive hard to keep in > control. > Details: she was DX a year ago, started on injectable insulin (Lamsent? > sounded like thats what she said), > Probably Lantus.

I’d agree with that. >then went to pills to be taken with > each meal, and within the last month or so, the Dr put her on a 1x daily > pill (Gluberite, 2.5mg). She is 37, the diabetes is hereditary in her > family, she is not overweight and seems in normal health otherwise. > Without knowing what the pills are that she takes with each meal, I can’t > comment on that.

I’m wondering if she’s still taking the Lantus as well as the Glyburide. The two together may prove to be (seem to be) too much.   The other pills are called Glyburide.  If she is not > overweight, there is a chance that she has type 1 and not type 2.  If this > is the case, all the pills in the world aren’t going to help her.  Only > insulin will.

It seems though that the Glyburide is having an effect. Lantus alone would have a problem dropping her BG’s to the point of hypo unless she was injected a substantial amount. > Obviously, the pill isn’t working or she’s not eating right or > something. She is going back to her doctor on Friday. She doesn’t want > the injectable insulin, which is just awful and terrfying for her.

It is for all non injecters. Once she’s got used to the idea and the activity, it won’t seem bad at all. And remember, there ARE millions f diabetics injecting multiple times each day and not giving it a 2nd thought. Beav

Response:

> It is Far Cheaper and Better to just buy a used Web-Tv ( Immune to > Viruses ) > They want 2/3 the price of a new comp ( discontinued-closeout ) for a > piece of Somebody-Elses-Problem . > I wish I had a Web-TV for me or mom , but you can not buy them new > LocaLLy Anymore !!! > I just had a friend quit-E-mail contact Blaiming for Not Doing > something about a Virus-Worm that   I HAD ABSOULTELY    NO – WAY    OF > KNOWING ABOUT AT ALL AT THE TIME !!! > ( ESPECIALLY BY HER !!!( OH YEAH , she told me and blamed-me WELL > AFTER THE FACT!!!)  :-(  :-(  :-(  :-(  :-(  :-(  :-(  :-(

There’s wimmin for you? Can’t live without ‘em, can’t pleae ‘em Beav

Response:

>I’m writing for a co-worker friend of mine who is new to Diabetes and >doesn’t own a computer. Bear with me, since I know little about the >disease and she seems to know even less…

You are not the first person to do this for a diabetic friend who does not have their access to the net.  Post away and take your time.  ASD specifically welcomes people exactly in yours and her situation. Suggestion, if she has access to a public library she may be able to get here on her own simply by using the library computer’s web browser and reading this and other groups through http://www.google.com .  If not and even if she does, please continue to post and learn. >Today "Jane" had a breakdown at work, where she was shaking and >nauseous, and started crying. Our boss let her go home, we got her OJ >and stuff so she felt good enough to leave.

Rule number one, she needs to bring her BG meter with her to work and test while there.  If at any time she "feels" like she is low aka hypO (short for hypoglycemic) she needs to test right then.  Treating a hypo is best done in a controlled manner by ingesting 15 grams of fast carbs and testing again every 15 minutes until the BG is above 80 mg/dl on the meter.  a half cup of OJ at 15 minutes later a BG test and repeat if necessary.  There are also glucose tabs and glucose gel that can be purchased from any pharmacy, cheaply, over the counter. Table sugar mixed in any fluid, or regular soda will work just as well too. Exercise after a hypo is not recommended, like walking to the bus stop.  It could put her at risk of another hypo but this time without help from you and her coworkers. I understand the embarrassment, all diabetics do.  However, once the BG is normalized, unless there was a fall and injury because of the hypo, she should not make it a habit of leaving work.  Severe, unconscious hypos should be treated by EMTs and if the doc at the ER recommends it through the EMTs, she should go to the hospital.(This is for severe hypos)  She doesn’t drive, so it >wasn’t a concern that she’d be unable or unsafe to drive. (she busses) >She was involved with a local support group, but because she doesn’t >have a car and no computer, she feels very isolated and alone. She is >not coping very well right now, and told me "I just don’t want this–I >don’t want to deal with it."(not sounding very healthy or smart to me, >but she is very fragile right now.)

if this was a diabetic support group, through her doctor’s office or local hospital she should get the phone numbers of the members of the group and USE those numbers.  Being a part of support group means that you want help and in return are willing to give help when you can. No-one can give if they are not called.  Giving in this case could be as simple as a ride to the meetings, someone to talk with on the phone for a few minutes or more, or someone to come over and help with learning how to prepare a proper meal or just someone to hang out with and talk about anything "other" than diabetes.  Believe it, diabetics who support each other don’t always talk about diabetes. >Details: she was DX a year ago, started on injectable insulin (Lamsent? >sounded like thats what she said),

 more likely Lantus. >  then went to pills to be taken with >each meal, and within the last month or so, the Dr put her on a 1x daily >pill (Gluberite, 2.5mg). She is 37, the diabetes is hereditary in her >family, she is not overweight and seems in normal health otherwise. >Obviously, the pill isn’t working or she’s not eating right or >something. She is going back to her doctor on Friday. She doesn’t want >the injectable insulin, which is just awful and terrfying for her.

it may be that the pills or the dosage is not working or the diet or a combination of both, or she may simply be too stressed out.  or all three.  we’d need a hell of a lot more info but a good starting point are these questions: Exactly what meds and how much of each and what time are these meds taken? type and frequency of exercise. what and how much foods are being eaten through out the day.  when are meals and snacks taken.  (need to be honest and frank with this)  both in the questions and the answers. Even though she is not over weight, we still need to know her weight. There are basic guidelines we need to start with as far as our eating habits go which are based on weight and age. keep an accurate record of all the above on a  daily basis as well as sick days, stress levels, arguments etc and make the doctor review the data.  If the doctor is a qualified endocrinologist he/she will greatly appreciate the extra data. >Does anyone have any suggestions for her? Better coping/managemnet >skills, books, support info, dietary recommendations..anything? It’s >really hard with her not on a computer and no car, but I’d like to be >able to help her take better control of this thing and learn to deal >with it better. Obviously, with so many people having diabetes, there >have to answers out there…

"Diabetes for Dummies" is a popular book amongst readers here.  Others will post books specific to type 2 diabetics. >Thanks SO MUCH for your time, >Lisa (and Jane.)

Some of the ladies here may be willing to use the regular mail and become pen pals with Jane.  If so do NOT share the snail mail addresses in the groups, contact the ladies via email for that info. Mack Type 1 since 1975 http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org http://www.insulin-pumpers.org  In tribute to the United States of America and the State  of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and  terrorism.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->It is Far Cheaper and Better to just buy a used Web-Tv ( Immune to >Viruses ) >They want 2/3 the price of a new comp ( discontinued-closeout ) for a >piece of Somebody-Elses-Problem . >I wish I had a Web-TV for me or mom , but you can not buy them new >LocaLLy Anymore !!! >I just had a friend quit-E-mail contact Blaiming for Not Doing >something about a Virus-Worm that   I HAD ABSOULTELY    NO – WAY    OF >KNOWING ABOUT AT ALL AT THE TIME !!! >( ESPECIALLY BY HER !!!( OH YEAH , she told me and blamed-me WELL >AFTER THE FACT!!!)  :-(  :-(  :-(  :-(  :-(  :-(  :-(  :-( >Sorry Venting .   >Tim

never keep email addresses stored in your address book on the PC. It’s safer to write them down in a paper address book or index card file.  also at the very least, even with a dial up, use a firewall like zone alarm which has both a very good free version and an even better paid version.  The free version never times out.  get and keep updated a good anti virus program that also scans incoming and outgoing email.  If you use outlook express or Outlook make sure it is updated and that certain risky files types are restricted, like anything with the following extensions: .exe .com .bat .dll .scr .dat. If you use OE or Outlook turn off the auto preview pane as this can still auto launch a file attachment. All downloads and incoming and outgoing emails are scanned here. as well as all the file attachments and a few others listed above are blocked.  I check for antivirus updates daily and scan my entire system on a  regular basis. people can also avoid viruses if they used the same OS and posting software that Ronnie uses.  It’s not 100 % safe.  But most viruses are designed to attack Windows based machines, the second most targeted is Mac and the least targeted is the one Ronnie is using. Mack Type 1 since 1975 http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org http://www.insulin-pumpers.org  In tribute to the United States of America and the State  of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and  terrorism.

Response:

naw.. write a dll to protect um with blowfish what i did. after first virii, learned lesson. — RK T1 – 5/00

: : >It is Far Cheaper and Better to just buy a used Web-Tv ( Immune to : >Viruses ) : > : >They want 2/3 the price of a new comp ( discontinued-closeout ) for a : >piece of Somebody-Elses-Problem . : > : >I wish I had a Web-TV for me or mom , but you can not buy them new : >LocaLLy Anymore !!! : > : >I just had a friend quit-E-mail contact Blaiming for Not Doing : >something about a Virus-Worm that   I HAD ABSOULTELY    NO – WAY    OF : >KNOWING ABOUT AT ALL AT THE TIME !!! : >( ESPECIALLY BY HER !!!( OH YEAH , she told me and blamed-me WELL : >AFTER THE FACT!!!)  :-(  :-(  :-(  :-(  :-(  :-(  :-(  :-( : > : >Sorry Venting . : > : >Tim : : : never keep email addresses stored in your address book on the PC. : It’s safer to write them down in a paper address book or index card : file.  also at the very least, even with a dial up, use a firewall : like zone alarm which has both a very good free version and an even : better paid version.  The free version never times out.  get and keep : updated a good anti virus program that also scans incoming and : outgoing email.  If you use outlook express or Outlook make sure it is : updated and that certain risky files types are restricted, like : anything with the following extensions: .exe .com .bat .dll .scr .dat. : If you use OE or Outlook turn off the auto preview pane as this can : still auto launch a file attachment. : : All downloads and incoming and outgoing emails are scanned here. as : well as all the file attachments and a few others listed above are : blocked.  I check for antivirus updates daily and scan my entire : system on a  regular basis. : : people can also avoid viruses if they used the same OS and posting : software that Ronnie uses.  It’s not 100 % safe.  But most viruses are : designed to attack Windows based machines, the second most targeted is : Mac and the least targeted is the one Ronnie is using. : : Mack : Type 1 since 1975 : http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org : http://www.insulin-pumpers.org : :  In tribute to the United States of America and the State :  of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and :  terrorism.

Response:

(Sorry for top posting) Thanks to everyone for the input and suggestions. Big Thanks. To those who asked about her not having a computer, she’s low income. Basically, can’t afford one. Even if I could cobble together a 386 or something for her, I doubt she could afford the extra $20/month for aol… Turns out–she called me last night–she’d forgotten to take her pill. That was the cause of the dizzy-shaking (hypoglycmic?) episode. She did have her blood meter with her and checked herself. Yep, low. But I am still worried as she doesn’t seem to be taking the bull by the horns here. I am going to print out all the suggestions culled from the 3 diabetes groups and see if I can’t manage to get her involved with a another support group locally. Funny thing is, I don’t even know her that well, just feel so sorry for her in her isolation and denial… Thanks again–these are great groups–and I’ll be in touch. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I’m writing for a co-worker friend of mine who is new to Diabetes and >doesn’t own a computer. Bear with me, since I know little about the >disease and she seems to know even less… > You are not the first person to do this for a diabetic friend who does > not have their access to the net.  Post away and take your time.  ASD > specifically welcomes people exactly in yours and her situation. > Suggestion, if she has access to a public library she may be able to > get here on her own simply by using the library computer’s web browser > and reading this and other groups through http://www.google.com .  If > not and even if she does, please continue to post and learn. >Today "Jane" had a breakdown at work, where she was shaking and >nauseous, and started crying. Our boss let her go home, we got her OJ >and stuff so she felt good enough to leave. > Rule number one, she needs to bring her BG meter with her to work and > test while there.  If at any time she "feels" like she is low aka hypO > (short for hypoglycemic) she needs to test right then.  Treating a > hypo is best done in a controlled manner by ingesting 15 grams of fast > carbs and testing again every 15 minutes until the BG is above 80 > mg/dl on the meter.  a half cup of OJ at 15 minutes later a BG test > and repeat if necessary.  There are also glucose tabs and glucose gel > that can be purchased from any pharmacy, cheaply, over the counter. > Table sugar mixed in any fluid, or regular soda will work just as well > too. > Exercise after a hypo is not recommended, like walking to the bus > stop.  It could put her at risk of another hypo but this time without > help from you and her coworkers. > I understand the embarrassment, all diabetics do.  However, once the > BG is normalized, unless there was a fall and injury because of the > hypo, she should not make it a habit of leaving work.  Severe, > unconscious hypos should be treated by EMTs and if the doc at the ER > recommends it through the EMTs, she should go to the hospital.(This is > for severe hypos) >  She doesn’t drive, so it >wasn’t a concern that she’d be unable or unsafe to drive. (she busses) >She was involved with a local support group, but because she doesn’t >have a car and no computer, she feels very isolated and alone. She is >not coping very well right now, and told me "I just don’t want this–I >don’t want to deal with it."(not sounding very healthy or smart to me, >but she is very fragile right now.) > if this was a diabetic support group, through her doctor’s office or > local hospital she should get the phone numbers of the members of the > group and USE those numbers.  Being a part of support group means that > you want help and in return are willing to give help when you can. > No-one can give if they are not called.  Giving in this case could be > as simple as a ride to the meetings, someone to talk with on the phone > for a few minutes or more, or someone to come over and help with > learning how to prepare a proper meal or just someone to hang out with > and talk about anything "other" than diabetes.  Believe it, diabetics > who support each other don’t always talk about diabetes. >Details: she was DX a year ago, started on injectable insulin (Lamsent? >sounded like thats what she said), >  more likely Lantus. >  then went to pills to be taken with >each meal, and within the last month or so, the Dr put her on a 1x daily >pill (Gluberite, 2.5mg). She is 37, the diabetes is hereditary in her >family, she is not overweight and seems in normal health otherwise. >Obviously, the pill isn’t working or she’s not eating right or >something. She is going back to her doctor on Friday. She doesn’t want >the injectable insulin, which is just awful and terrfying for her. > it may be that the pills or the dosage is not working or the diet or a > combination of both, or she may simply be too stressed out.  or all > three.  we’d need a hell of a lot more info but a good starting point > are these questions: > Exactly what meds and how much of each and what time are these meds > taken? > type and frequency of exercise. > what and how much foods are being eaten through out the day.  when are > meals and snacks taken.  (need to be honest and frank with this)  both > in the questions and the answers. > Even though she is not over weight, we still need to know her weight. > There are basic guidelines we need to start with as far as our eating > habits go which are based on weight and age. > keep an accurate record of all the above on a  daily basis as well as > sick days, stress levels, arguments etc and make the doctor review the > data.  If the doctor is a qualified endocrinologist he/she will > greatly appreciate the extra data. >Does anyone have any suggestions for her? Better coping/managemnet >skills, books, support info, dietary recommendations..anything? It’s >really hard with her not on a computer and no car, but I’d like to be >able to help her take better control of this thing and learn to deal >with it better. Obviously, with so many people having diabetes, there >have to answers out there… > "Diabetes for Dummies" is a popular book amongst readers here.  Others > will post books specific to type 2 diabetics. >Thanks SO MUCH for your time, >Lisa (and Jane.) > Some of the ladies here may be willing to use the regular mail and > become pen pals with Jane.  If so do NOT share the snail mail > addresses in the groups, contact the ladies via email for that info. > Mack > Type 1 since 1975 > http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org > http://www.insulin-pumpers.org >  In tribute to the United States of America and the State >  of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and >  terrorism.

Response:

>naw.. write a dll to protect um with blowfish >what i did. after first virii, learned lesson.

can you be specific? example? Mack Type 1 since 1975 http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org http://www.insulin-pumpers.org  In tribute to the United States of America and the State  of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and  terrorism.

Response:

i wrote a patch for OE that encrypts my emails — RK T1 – 5/00

: : >naw.. write a dll to protect um with blowfish : > : >what i did. after first virii, learned lesson. : : : can you be specific? example? : : Mack : Type 1 since 1975 : http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org : http://www.insulin-pumpers.org : :  In tribute to the United States of America and the State :  of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and :  terrorism.

Response:

[snip] >Turns out–she called me last night–she’d forgotten to take her pill. >That was the cause of the dizzy-shaking (hypoglycmic?) episode. She did >have her blood meter with her and checked herself. Yep, low.

That doesn’t make sense.  I suspect the problem was she didn’t EAT.   >But I am still worried as she doesn’t seem to be taking the bull by the >horns here. I am going to print out all the suggestions culled from the >3 diabetes groups and see if I can’t manage to get her involved with a >another support group locally.

Good for you.  She definitely needs to get empowered around her disease. Priscilla

Response:

Tim I got two webtvs on ebay,  They are about 75 bucks Loretta — In tribute to the United States of America and the State of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and terrorism.

Response:

Question:

> I’m familiar with the controversy about the roles of saturated fat and cholesterol in CHD and that Keys was in the forefront of promoting the correlation (I know both Ravnskov and Enig’s publications), but that wasn’t intended to be the gist of my post. Are you also saying that Keys’ analysis of the Japanese data was also flawed? It’s my understanding that the inverse correlation between hemorrhagic stroke and cholesterol is well established. See or example the following PubMed abstract: > Abbott C, Meadows AB, Lier K. > Low cholesterol and noncardiovascular mortality. > Mil Med. 2000 Jun;165(6):466-9. Review. > PMID: 10870365

What I said was that Keys’ influence over the long haul, ended up being a negative on Western diet. The strokes in the Japanese diet probably had to do with the quality of fats as well, i.e., excessive Omega 3 fatty acids. I believe that excessive Omega 3 fatty acids can cause strokes by making the blood too thin and perhaps cell membranes too permeable. I did not read Keys’ report on Japanese diet or your citation above. Frank

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Stroke, and yes, Ravnskov does mention it. The traditional lean diet > in ravaged post-war Japan resulted in low cholesterol levels (probably > not the case today). Mortality due cerebral hemorrhage was > significantly higher than that due to coronary heart disease. When > Japanese people started eating a typical western diet, e.g. Japanese > who emigrated to the USA, deaths from stroke decreased while those due > to CHD increased, although the total mortality decreased. He cites > Keys, A. et.al., Annals of Internal Medicine, vol.48, pp 83-94, 1958. >Ancel Keys – Some of his results/analysis have subsequently been >faulted. >"Keys postulated a correlation between cholesterol levels and CVD and >initiated a study of Minnesota businessmen (the first prospective study >of CVD), culminating in what came to be known as the Seven Countries >Study. These studies found strong associations between the CVD rate of a >population and average serum cholesterol and per capita intake of >saturated fatty acids. >From the early 1950s, Keys actively promoted his findings to an >increasingly health-conscious public. The resulting "cholesterol >controversy" revealed sharp divisions in post-war scientific culture >over whether the statisticians’ "strong associations" could provide >scientific certainty. This controversy left greater opportunity for >competing food industry groups, health promotion associations, food >faddists, physicians, and insurance companies to use the ambiguities and >methodologic quibbles inherent in such studies to pursue their own >agendas. In its simplest form, the debate over dietary fat and CVD >pitted "interventionists" against those calling for further >studies–preferably clinical or laboratory studies." >http://www.cdc.gov/epo/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm4830a1box.htm >"Ancel Keys is largely responsible for starting the anti-saturated fat >agenda in the United States. From 1953 to 1957 Keys made a series of >statements regarding the atherogenicity of fats. These pronouncements >were: >’All fats raise serum cholesterol; Nearly half of total fat comes from >vegetable fats and oils; No difference between animal and vegetable fats >in effect on CHD(1953); Type of fat makes no difference; Need to reduce >margarine and shortening (1956); All fats are comparable; Saturated fats >raise and polyunsaturated fats lower serum cholesterol; Hydrogenated >vegetable fats are the problem; Animal fats are the problem >(1957-1959)." >As can be seen, his findings were inconsistent. … >Recently, an editorial by Harvard’s Walter Willett, M.D. in the American >Journal of Public Health (1990) acknowledged that even though ‘the focus >of dietary recommendations is usually a reduction of saturated fat >intake, no relation between saturated fat intake and risk of CHD was >observed in >the most informative prospective study to date.’ >Another editorial, this time by Framingham’s William P. Castelli in the >Archives of Internal Medicine (1992), declared for the record that >’…in Framingham, Mass, the more saturated fat one ate, the more >cholesterol one ate, the more calories one ate, the lower the person’s >serum cholesterol… the opposite of what the equations provided by >Hegsted at al (1965) and Keys et al (1957) would predict…’ >Castelli further admitted that ‘…In Framingham, for example, we found >that the people who ate the most cholesterol, ate the most saturated >fat, ate the most calories, weighed the least, and were the most >physically active.’" >http://www.westonaprice.org/know_your_fats/coconut_oil.html >The irony is that the anti-saturated fat hypothesis led to the extensive >use of trans fatty acids (partially hydrogenated fats and oils). Their >use somewhat parallels the increase in type 2 diabetes as well as the >increased proportion of the diet of carbohydrates as seen in the current >USDA food pyramid. The net result – people got fatter.

Frank, I’m familiar with the controversy about the roles of saturated fat and cholesterol in CHD and that Keys was in the forefront of promoting the correlation (I know both Ravnskov and Enig’s publications), but that wasn’t intended to be the gist of my post. Are you also saying that Keys’ analysis of the Japanese data was also flawed? It’s my understanding that the inverse correlation between hemorrhagic stroke and cholesterol is well established. See or example the following PubMed abstract: Abbott C, Meadows AB, Lier K. Low cholesterol and noncardiovascular mortality. Mil Med. 2000 Jun;165(6):466-9. Review. PMID: 10870365 — Chris E-mail: christopher[dot]hogg[at]virgin[dot]net

Response:

Cholesterol is an antioxidant .. and in a disease in which oxidative stress plays a predominent role .. lowering the antioxidative potential of the body just may be a .. bad .. thing .. ? Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com Man Is A Herbivore! http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/manisaherbivore DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/deadpeoplewalking

Response:

> Stroke, and yes, Ravnskov does mention it. The traditional lean diet > in ravaged post-war Japan resulted in low cholesterol levels (probably > not the case today). Mortality due cerebral hemorrhage was > significantly higher than that due to coronary heart disease. When > Japanese people started eating a typical western diet, e.g. Japanese > who emigrated to the USA, deaths from stroke decreased while those due > to CHD increased, although the total mortality decreased. He cites > Keys, A. et.al., Annals of Internal Medicine, vol.48, pp 83-94, 1958.

Ancel Keys – Some of his results/analysis have subsequently been faulted. "Keys postulated a correlation between cholesterol levels and CVD and initiated a study of Minnesota businessmen (the first prospective study of CVD), culminating in what came to be known as the Seven Countries Study. These studies found strong associations between the CVD rate of a population and average serum cholesterol and per capita intake of saturated fatty acids. From the early 1950s, Keys actively promoted his findings to an increasingly health-conscious public. The resulting "cholesterol controversy" revealed sharp divisions in post-war scientific culture over whether the statisticians’ "strong associations" could provide scientific certainty. This controversy left greater opportunity for competing food industry groups, health promotion associations, food faddists, physicians, and insurance companies to use the ambiguities and methodologic quibbles inherent in such studies to pursue their own agendas. In its simplest form, the debate over dietary fat and CVD pitted "interventionists" against those calling for further studies–preferably clinical or laboratory studies." http://www.cdc.gov/epo/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm4830a1box.htm "Ancel Keys is largely responsible for starting the anti-saturated fat agenda in the United States. From 1953 to 1957 Keys made a series of statements regarding the atherogenicity of fats. These pronouncements were: ‘All fats raise serum cholesterol; Nearly half of total fat comes from vegetable fats and oils; No difference between animal and vegetable fats in effect on CHD(1953); Type of fat makes no difference; Need to reduce margarine and shortening (1956); All fats are comparable; Saturated fats raise and polyunsaturated fats lower serum cholesterol; Hydrogenated vegetable fats are the problem; Animal fats are the problem (1957-1959)." As can be seen, his findings were inconsistent. … Recently, an editorial by Harvard’s Walter Willett, M.D. in the American Journal of Public Health (1990) acknowledged that even though ‘the focus of dietary recommendations is usually a reduction of saturated fat intake, no relation between saturated fat intake and risk of CHD was observed in the most informative prospective study to date.’ Another editorial, this time by Framingham’s William P. Castelli in the Archives of Internal Medicine (1992), declared for the record that ‘…in Framingham, Mass, the more saturated fat one ate, the more cholesterol one ate, the more calories one ate, the lower the person’s serum cholesterol… the opposite of what the equations provided by Hegsted at al (1965) and Keys et al (1957) would predict…’ Castelli further admitted that ‘…In Framingham, for example, we found that the people who ate the most cholesterol, ate the most saturated fat, ate the most calories, weighed the least, and were the most physically active.’" http://www.westonaprice.org/know_your_fats/coconut_oil.html The irony is that the anti-saturated fat hypothesis led to the extensive use of trans fatty acids (partially hydrogenated fats and oils). Their use somewhat parallels the increase in type 2 diabetes as well as the increased proportion of the diet of carbohydrates as seen in the current USDA food pyramid. The net result – people got fatter. Frank

Response:

>> I am starting to get a niggling feeling that lowering total > cholesterol NUMBERS below a certain point might be like the "low > fat" diet, or even the "no cholesterol food" diet that has since > lost credibility, yet still lingers on in common thinking.  Somehow, > it’s just TOO simplistic. >I remember reading something (probably Ravnskov) claiming >a correlation between _low_ cholesterol and some other >health problem.  From memory (faulty at my age, mind you!) >I think the conclusion was that 180 was perfectly normal >and that lowering meds are a bad idea if you’re under 200.

Stroke, and yes, Ravnskov does mention it. The traditional lean diet in ravaged post-war Japan resulted in low cholesterol levels (probably not the case today). Mortality due cerebral hemorrhage was significantly higher than that due to coronary heart disease. When Japanese people started eating a typical western diet, e.g. Japanese who emigrated to the USA, deaths from stroke decreased while those due to CHD increased, although the total mortality decreased. He cites Keys, A. et.al., Annals of Internal Medicine, vol.48, pp 83-94, 1958. Ravnskov doesn’t give specific numbers for these cholesterol levels, but in one of his figures, the data-point for Japan is about 182mg/dl (~4.7mmol/l).  ISTR from somewhere else that a cholesterol level of about 200mg/dl (~5.2mmol/l) is optimal. Below that, deaths due to stroke increase, while above it, deaths from CHD rise. Whether this correct, and whether it also holds for diabetics, I’ve no idea. — Chris E-mail: christopher[dot]hogg[at]virgin[dot]net

Response:

>This post not CC’d by email >Hi there Quentin, >I’m volunteering.  :-D >G’day G’day Annette, >  We are all volunteers … well sort of … none of us that I know of >are doing this life professionally. <grin>

everyone is an amateur at life. Mack Type 1 since 1975 http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org http://www.insulin-pumpers.org  In tribute to the United States of America and the State  of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and  terrorism.

Response:

> I remember reading something (probably Ravnskov) claiming > a correlation between _low_ cholesterol and some other > health problem.  From memory (faulty at my age, mind you!) > I think the conclusion was that 180 was perfectly normal > and that lowering meds are a bad idea if you’re under 200.

Just in case there was any confusion, that last line would be clearer if it said    "cholesterol-lowering meds are a bad idea if     you are already below 200" But again, I don’t have the reference handy and may be remembering it wrong.

Response:

Thanks Quentin. I feel better now! Annette

> This post not CC’d by email

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Brousing through the site mentioned above, I was somewhat disturbed >to discover that homocysteine is an end product of methionine. > G’day G’day Annette, >    As it happens it is really important methionine is converted to > homocysteine. We need it to happen.  We sure do. > AND we need that homocysteine to be rapidly converted to SAMe or > glutathione.  (Hey I can start a sentence with "and" and shout about > too … this time the "and" is so important.) The big thing is not to > let homocysteine accumulate, it make holes in arteries, its a > neurotoxin, its … > It is all about methyl groups.  Going from methionine to homocysteine > a methyl group got taken off and to make the other essential things a > methyl group got added in another position.  As a rough guide to the > universe if something crappy is happening to the body, a lack of > methylation will be the root cause. > SAMe is master methyl organiser for the brain.  Noradrenalin goes a > long way towards happiness.  Adrenalin’s second name is action. > Dopamine is responsible for a lot of pleasure in everything from sex > to chocolate. > Glutathione is the great detox agent in the liver. > The big thing is to have a good SOURCE of methyl groups.  It is hard > to beat a little known B group vitamin, choline also known as > tetramethylglycine just to show off that it has four methyl groups. > Eggs yolks are far and away the best source.  It get converted to > betaine also known as trimethylglycine, TMG which is great stuff. TMG > is found in beet, beans, prawns, fish, eggs and especially liver. > TMG is one of those things that is doubly virtuous. > It helps convert homocysteine to SAMe. > We, the diabetic we, also need methyl transfer agents such as those > other B group vitamins, folic acid, Vit B12, B6.  Vit B12 is normally > somewhat difficult to absorb orally but give it a methyl group ie form > methylcobalamin an suddenly it is much more active and easily > absorbed.  They are all like well trained waiters.  The stand around > quietly in the background but when they spy a methyl group that needs > serving the pick in up and pass into the guest.  For this reason the > active form of folate is methylfolate. > I >guess I never picked that one up before. Once again the balance pole >has been shortened.  What helps one thing damages another.  I’m >swaying a little, but still up here. > Train more waiters.  <grin> > One way to view T2 diabetes is accelerated aging.  It doesn’t matter > to much what sort of crap one is experiencing a small bunch of crims > are behind most of the age crimes … glycation, free radical > oxidation and lack of methylation.  Methylation is the natural repair > mechanism for most everything even DNA. It doesn’t matter too much > what the symptoms are, whether it is a person on antidepressants (they > work better with folic acid supplementation. SAMe does about as well > as most antidepressants) or something else. > Of course anyone supplementing with folic acid should also take Vit > B12 as folic acid can hide Vit B12 deficiencies. > Best wishes, > — > Quentin Grady       ^  ^  / > New Zealand,       >#,#< [ >                     / / > "… and the blind dog was leading." > http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin

— Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Response:

> I am starting to get a niggling feeling that lowering total > cholesterol NUMBERS below a certain point might be like the "low > fat" diet, or even the "no cholesterol food" diet that has since > lost credibility, yet still lingers on in common thinking.  Somehow, > it’s just TOO simplistic.

I remember reading something (probably Ravnskov) claiming a correlation between _low_ cholesterol and some other health problem.  From memory (faulty at my age, mind you!) I think the conclusion was that 180 was perfectly normal and that lowering meds are a bad idea if you’re under 200. I know that something (NOT meds, maybe just a lab error) dropped my total cholesterol to 127 once but it went back to 177 the next check. Another oddity is that although most of my lipid numbers were good over the years, HDL sat at 30-35.  Becoming diabetic, losing 75 pounds, eating better, and exercising more didn’t make a difference. But about a year after diagnosis, without (AFAIK) any significant diet change, HDL went to sixty and three months later was 55.  I have no explanation. Two far-fetched hypotheses: 1. Takes a year for the diet to take effect? 2. I was debating niacin or some other intervention.     Maybe subconscious mind-over-matter? (Hey, I _said_ they were far-fetched, didn’t I?)

Response:

This post not CC’d by email >Brousing through the site mentioned above, I was somewhat disturbed >to discover that homocysteine is an end product of methionine.

G’day G’day Annette,    As it happens it is really important methionine is converted to homocysteine. We need it to happen.  We sure do.   AND we need that homocysteine to be rapidly converted to SAMe or glutathione.  (Hey I can start a sentence with "and" and shout about too … this time the "and" is so important.) The big thing is not to let homocysteine accumulate, it make holes in arteries, its a neurotoxin, its …   It is all about methyl groups.  Going from methionine to homocysteine a methyl group got taken off and to make the other essential things a methyl group got added in another position.  As a rough guide to the universe if something crappy is happening to the body, a lack of methylation will be the root cause. SAMe is master methyl organiser for the brain.  Noradrenalin goes a long way towards happiness.  Adrenalin’s second name is action. Dopamine is responsible for a lot of pleasure in everything from sex to chocolate. Glutathione is the great detox agent in the liver. The big thing is to have a good SOURCE of methyl groups.  It is hard to beat a little known B group vitamin, choline also known as tetramethylglycine just to show off that it has four methyl groups. Eggs yolks are far and away the best source.  It get converted to betaine also known as trimethylglycine, TMG which is great stuff. TMG is found in beet, beans, prawns, fish, eggs and especially liver. TMG is one of those things that is doubly virtuous.   It helps convert homocysteine to SAMe. We, the diabetic we, also need methyl transfer agents such as those other B group vitamins, folic acid, Vit B12, B6.  Vit B12 is normally somewhat difficult to absorb orally but give it a methyl group ie form methylcobalamin an suddenly it is much more active and easily absorbed.  They are all like well trained waiters.  The stand around quietly in the background but when they spy a methyl group that needs serving the pick in up and pass into the guest.  For this reason the active form of folate is methylfolate.   > I >guess I never picked that one up before. Once again the balance pole >has been shortened.  What helps one thing damages another.  I’m >swaying a little, but still up here.

Train more waiters.  <grin> One way to view T2 diabetes is accelerated aging.  It doesn’t matter to much what sort of crap one is experiencing a small bunch of crims are behind most of the age crimes … glycation, free radical oxidation and lack of methylation.  Methylation is the natural repair mechanism for most everything even DNA. It doesn’t matter too much what the symptoms are, whether it is a person on antidepressants (they work better with folic acid supplementation. SAMe does about as well as most antidepressants) or something else. Of course anyone supplementing with folic acid should also take Vit B12 as folic acid can hide Vit B12 deficiencies. Best wishes, — Quentin Grady       ^  ^  / New Zealand,       >#,#< [                     / /     "… and the blind dog was leading." http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin

Response:

> This post not CC’d by email

>Hi there Quentin, >I’m volunteering.  :-D > G’day G’day Annette, >   We are all volunteers … well sort of … none of us that I know of > are doing this life professionally. <grin>

Hi there Quentin, LOL.  Not to hear some people talk! I  was referring to being most definitely a non-vegetarian. (> >I do meat, full cream dairy products, and eggs.) > Annette, I think I am victim of my own complacency.  At first I > struggled and threw every thing I could think of at it, including the > kitchen sink.  My diet has drifted a bit.  I have been eating more > cooked vegetables, fewer salads.

Stir frys (with olive oil) are a good compromise. Have you tried that?  Eating the same things too often can become a bore, leading to the drift you mention.  Variety is important. > It is a while since I made my own > bread with barley and buckwheat.  For some reason I stopped baking > with olive oil, using a glass of water instead.  Put simply it could > be that I have been consuming less mono-unsaturated oils and more > carbs.

Only you can judge. >And have recently added Logicol Margarine. > I have never gone that way even though the literature points to it > being a good strategy.

My husband does not approve this move. He is even more leery of margarines than I am. More conservative as well.  I’m more of a risk taker. > Long ago I came across the suggestion that Calcium pantothenate, Vit > B5 was a safer choice for some diabetics when it came to lowering > cholesterol.  It didn’t have the HDL raising effect though.  It is all > too long ago and I haven’t documented the source.

Was it ; http://vvv.com/healthnews/hypertension.html     ? I know that after I read this, I madly threw every available oil into my diet, with the consequence of weight gain! The home page has some good links for some of the B group vitamins as well. BTW, how’s your calcium intake?   That’s mentioned in there somewhere too. I just reread some of the articles, and have decided to look onto the Japanese "fermented milk"  treatment for hypertension.  I’m going to chase up a possible source of Lactobacillus helveticus and Saccharomyces cerevisiae (the starter culture).  I’ll let you know how I go with that one. >angiogram that showed no cholesterol plaques AT ALL in my arteries. >The cardiologist seemed surprised (and pleased). > Now I am delighted to hear that.  Too often medicine gets into > "treating the numbers"  rather than the disease.  Obviously having no > cholesterol plaques at all is much more meaningful that having low > blood cholesterol.

You bet it does! I am starting to get a niggling feeling that lowering total cholesterol NUMBERS below a certain point might be like the "low fat" diet, or even the "no cholesterol food" diet that has since lost credibility, yet still lingers on in common thinking.  Somehow, it’s just TOO simplistic. > It means you are taking care of other factors like > having an anti-inflammatory diet, low homocysteine etc.

Brousing through the site mentioned above, I was somewhat disturbed to discover that homocysteine is an end product of methionine.  I guess I never picked that one up before. Once again the balance pole has been shortened.  What helps one thing damages another.  I’m swaying a little, but still up here. >I’m due for a new set of tests. > Me too.

Best of British, Quentin. Annette "The first step in intelligent tinkering is to  save all the rts."   – Aldo Leopold — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Response:

This post not CC’d by email >Hi there Quentin, >I’m volunteering.  :-D

G’day G’day Annette,   We are all volunteers … well sort of … none of us that I know of are doing this life professionally. <grin> – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I do meat, full cream dairy products, and eggs.  I trim the meat, >and it’s mostly grilled or "dry" fried, but that’s about all the >saturated fat/dietary cholesterol reduction I worry about. I cook >with various vegetable oils, olive oil in particular. >Based on what I’ve read here, plus my own brousing, I include in my >diet; >Ground Flax seed >Flax seed oil >Policosinal >Fish oil >Almonds >Oatmeal bran >Barley >Tumeric >Tinned Globe artichoke (Cynara) >A supp called Liver Guard which contains Silibin, Taraxacum, Cynara >and Astragalus – to promote bile production.

Annette, I think I am victim of my own complacency.  At first I struggled and threw every thing I could think of at it, including the kitchen sink.  My diet has drifted a bit.  I have been eating more cooked vegetables, fewer salads.  It is a while since I made my own bread with barley and buckwheat.  For some reason I stopped baking with olive oil, using a glass of water instead.  Put simply it could be that I have been consuming less mono-unsaturated oils and more carbs. >And have recently added Logicol Margarine.

I have never gone that way even though the literature points to it being a good strategy. >Since I can’t seem to tolerate Niacin, I have added some dried yeast >pills that I’m hoping will contain a more acceptable form of Niacin >in it’s natural form. (?)

Long ago I came across the suggestion that Calcium pantothenate, Vit B5 was a safer choice for some diabetics when it came to lowering cholesterol.  It didn’t have the HDL raising effect though.  It is all too long ago and I haven’t documented the source.   >I eat lots and lots of a wide range of low carb veges. and also eat >a few other brans that you have suggested. >Sounds like a lot, but except for the 3 supps, the rest is just a >part of my normal diet, no problem. >My last cholesterol profile wasn’t bad, but *could* be a little >better – so I guess my next lipid test will show if there’s any >improvements.  What really pleased me was the results of the >angiogram that showed no cholesterol plaques AT ALL in my  arteries. >The cardiologist seemed surprised (and pleased).

Now I am delighted to hear that.  Too often medicine gets into "treating the numbers"  rather than the disease.  Obviously having no cholesterol plaques at all is much more meaningful that having low blood cholesterol. It means you are taking care of other factors like having an anti-inflammatory diet, low homocysteine etc. >Watch this space! >I’m due for a new set of tests.

Me too. >Annette

– Quentin Grady       ^  ^  / New Zealand,       >#,#< [                     / /     "… and the blind dog was leading." http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin

Response:

Al, Sounds good. However I just read in today’s paper that a very recent study showed that Guggul contrary to popular belief will raise LDL. http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=570&ncid=753&e=4&u=/n… 812/sc_nm/health_cholesterol_dc It’s quite possibly the niacin that is giving you the good result as it is known to do that. But it also supposedly pushes up blood sugar. . . — Jenny 168.5/138  30 lbs lost by 8/2/03! Low Carb 9/1998 – 8/2001 and 11/10/02 – Now http://www.geocities.com/jenny_the_bean How to calculate your need for protein * How much people really lose each month *  Water Weight Gain & Loss * The "Two Gram Cure" for Hunger Cravings * Characteristics of Successful Dieters * Indispensible Low Carb Treats * Should You Count that Low Impact Carb? * Curing Ketobreath * Exercise Starting from Zero *  NEW! Do Starch Blockers Work?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> When my doc took me off Lipitor because he suspected that I was developing > the dangerous side effects,  my lipids took a very unwelcome jump during the > following 6-month testing period.   So I bought the book Quentin > recommended: >     50 Ways to Lower Your Cholesterol.   McGowan, Mary P., M.D. > and did what she said. >  I got the results this morning: >   Total Cholesterol:   down 21% >    Triglycerides:         down 43% >    HDL                        down 4% >    LDL                         down 25% > My wholly OTC regime calls for ground Flax seed, Benecol Margarine, > policosinol, time-release Niacin,  Psyllium, fish oil and Guggul.   (I just > couldn’t handle the soy flour recommendation.) > BTW, the regime also cures constipation. > Regards >   Old Al

Response:

Here is a current article about the polypill and research results: http://mp.medscape.com/cgi-bin1/DM/y/edDp0ENHSC0Dyr0FfO60AO Medscape requires a one time registration. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->  There has been a lot of talk these days about a polypill. The >originators of the idea envisage it being taken by people 55 years old >and over.   It might have seven or eight meds in lower than normal >doses. >In the meantime there is the Portfolio diet which utilises a >collection of dietary interventions.  The Portfolio diet gets strong >support from the purveyors of psyllium, sterol enriched margarine and >soy who naturally would like to convey the impression that THEIR >ingredient was the vital one. >http://thesoydailyclub.com/Food/loblawportfolio08052003.asp >Whatever, there is also almonds, oats, barley, eggplant and other >vegetables. >IMHO there is a general strategy here … making small incremental >gains along different pathways without ever demanding too much of any >one item. >In the original research they also made the diet vegetarian to reduce >cholesterol intake.  What significance that had will only be >ascertained when someone tries the Portfolio diet with people who eat >meat. >Best wishes, >– >Quentin Grady       ^  ^  / >New Zealand,       >#,#< [ >                    / / >"… and the blind dog was leading." >http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin

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NPR had a news story today to the same effect, including a 4 percent rise in hdl, not unlike that reported in the original post. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Sounds good. However I just read in today’s paper that a very recent study >showed that Guggul contrary to popular belief will raise LDL. >http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=570&ncid=753&e=4&u=/n… >812/sc_nm/health_cholesterol_dc >It’s quite possibly the niacin that is giving you the good result as it is >known to do that. But it also supposedly pushes up blood sugar. . . >– Jenny >168.5/138  30 lbs lost by 8/2/03! >Low Carb 9/1998 – 8/2001 and 11/10/02 – Now >http://www.geocities.com/jenny_the_bean >How to calculate your need for protein * How much people really lose each >month *  Water Weight Gain & Loss * The "Two Gram Cure" for Hunger Cravings >* Characteristics of Successful Dieters * Indispensible Low Carb Treats * >Should You Count that Low Impact Carb? * Curing Ketobreath * Exercise >Starting from Zero *  NEW! Do Starch Blockers Work? > When my doc took me off Lipitor because he suspected that I was developing > the dangerous side effects,  my lipids took a very unwelcome jump during >the > following 6-month testing period.   So I bought the book Quentin > recommended: >     50 Ways to Lower Your Cholesterol.   McGowan, Mary P., M.D. > and did what she said. >  I got the results this morning: >   Total Cholesterol:   down 21% >    Triglycerides:         down 43% >    HDL                        down 4% >    LDL                         down 25% > My wholly OTC regime calls for ground Flax seed, Benecol Margarine, > policosinol, time-release Niacin,  Psyllium, fish oil and Guggul.   (I >just > couldn’t handle the soy flour recommendation.) > BTW, the regime also cures constipation. > Regards >   Old Al

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Oops, that should have been a 4 percent decrease in hdl. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->NPR had a news story today to the same effect, including a 4 percent rise >in hdl, not unlike that reported in the original post. >Sounds good. However I just read in today’s paper that a very recent study >showed that Guggul contrary to popular belief will raise LDL. >http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=570&ncid=753&e=4&u=/n… >812/sc_nm/health_cholesterol_dc >It’s quite possibly the niacin that is giving you the good result as it is >known to do that. But it also supposedly pushes up blood sugar. . . >– Jenny >168.5/138  30 lbs lost by 8/2/03! >Low Carb 9/1998 – 8/2001 and 11/10/02 – Now >http://www.geocities.com/jenny_the_bean >How to calculate your need for protein * How much people really lose each >month *  Water Weight Gain & Loss * The "Two Gram Cure" for Hunger Cravings >* Characteristics of Successful Dieters * Indispensible Low Carb Treats * >Should You Count that Low Impact Carb? * Curing Ketobreath * Exercise >Starting from Zero *  NEW! Do Starch Blockers Work? >> When my doc took me off Lipitor because he suspected that I was developing >> the dangerous side effects,  my lipids took a very unwelcome jump during >the >> following 6-month testing period.   So I bought the book Quentin >> recommended: >>     50 Ways to Lower Your Cholesterol.   McGowan, Mary P., M.D. >> and did what she said. >>  I got the results this morning: >>   Total Cholesterol:   down 21% >>    Triglycerides:         down 43% >>    HDL                        down 4% >>    LDL                         down 25% >> My wholly OTC regime calls for ground Flax seed, Benecol Margarine, >> policosinol, time-release Niacin,  Psyllium, fish oil and Guggul.   (I >just >> couldn’t handle the soy flour recommendation.) >> BTW, the regime also cures constipation. >> Regards >>   Old Al

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> This post not CC’d by email

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->My wholly OTC regime calls for ground Flax seed, Benecol Margarine, >policosinol, time-release Niacin,  Psyllium, fish oil and Guggul. (I just >couldn’t handle the soy flour recommendation.) > G’day Al, >   There has been a lot of talk these days about a polypill. The > originators of the idea envisage it being taken by people 55 years old > and over.   It might have seven or eight meds in lower than normal > doses. > In the meantime there is the Portfolio diet which utilises a > collection of dietary interventions.  The Portfolio diet gets strong > support from the purveyors of psyllium, sterol enriched margarine and > soy who naturally would like to convey the impression that THEIR > ingredient was the vital one. > http://thesoydailyclub.com/Food/loblawportfolio08052003.asp > Whatever, there is also almonds, oats, barley, eggplant and other > vegetables. > IMHO there is a general strategy here … making small incremental > gains along different pathways without ever demanding too much of any > one item. > In the original research they also made the diet vegetarian to reduce > cholesterol intake.  What significance that had will only be > ascertained when someone tries the Portfolio diet with people who eat > meat. > Best wishes, > — > Quentin

Hi there Quentin, I’m volunteering.  :-D I do meat, full cream dairy products, and eggs.  I trim the meat, and it’s mostly grilled or "dry" fried, but that’s about all the saturated fat/dietary cholesterol reduction I worry about. I cook with various vegetable oils, olive oil in particular. Based on what I’ve read here, plus my own brousing, I include in my diet; Ground Flax seed Flax seed oil Policosinal Fish oil Almonds Oatmeal bran Barley Tumeric Tinned Globe artichoke (Cynara) A supp called Liver Guard which contains Silibin, Taraxacum, Cynara and Astragalus – to promote bile production. And have recently added Logicol Margarine. Since I can’t seem to tolerate Niacin, I have added some dried yeast pills that I’m hoping will contain a more acceptable form of Niacin in it’s natural form. (?) I eat lots and lots of a wide range of low carb veges. and also eat a few other brans that you have suggested. Sounds like a lot, but except for the 3 supps, the rest is just a part of my normal diet, no problem. My last cholesterol profile wasn’t bad, but *could* be a little better – so I guess my next lipid test will show if there’s any improvements.  What really pleased me was the results of the angiogram that showed no cholesterol plaques AT ALL in my  arteries. The cardiologist seemed surprised (and pleased). Watch this space! I’m due for a new set of tests. Annette — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

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 When my doc took me off Lipitor because he suspected that I was developing the dangerous side effects,  my lipids took a very unwelcome jump during the following 6-month testing period.   So I bought the book Quentin recommended:     50 Ways to Lower Your Cholesterol.   McGowan, Mary P., M.D. and did what she said.  I got the results this morning:   Total Cholesterol:   down 21%    Triglycerides:         down 43%    HDL                        down 4%    LDL                         down 25% My wholly OTC regime calls for ground Flax seed, Benecol Margarine, policosinol, time-release Niacin,  Psyllium, fish oil and Guggul.   (I just couldn’t handle the soy flour recommendation.) BTW, the regime also cures constipation. Regards   Old Al

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Your hdl went down 4 points?  The niacin is said to be a very effective, if not the most, way to increase hdl. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> When my doc took me off Lipitor because he suspected that I was developing >the dangerous side effects,  my lipids took a very unwelcome jump during the >following 6-month testing period.   So I bought the book Quentin >recommended: >    50 Ways to Lower Your Cholesterol.   McGowan, Mary P., M.D. >and did what she said. > I got the results this morning: >  Total Cholesterol:   down 21% >   Triglycerides:         down 43% >   HDL                        down 4% >   LDL                         down 25% >My wholly OTC regime calls for ground Flax seed, Benecol Margarine, >policosinol, time-release Niacin,  Psyllium, fish oil and Guggul.   (I just >couldn’t handle the soy flour recommendation.) >BTW, the regime also cures constipation. >Regards >  Old Al

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This post not CC’d by email > When my doc took me off Lipitor because he suspected that I was developing >the dangerous side effects,  my lipids took a very unwelcome jump during the >following 6-month testing period.   So I bought the book Quentin >recommended: >    50 Ways to Lower Your Cholesterol.   McGowan, Mary P., M.D. >and did what she said.

G’day G’day Al,    What a refreshing bit of news.  I am delighted for YOU especially as at the decision level you were the one making the decisions. That book by Mary McGowan is pretty remarkable … 50 ways to lower your cholesterol.  You chose 14% of them.  Now, we know that makes sense having both read the book because many of the ways are of the form, "Discuss XYZ med with your doctor." > I got the results this morning: >  Total Cholesterol:   down 21% >   Triglycerides:         down 43% >   HDL                        down 4% >   LDL                         down 25%

The small drop in HDL is to be expected. With less LDL cholesterol to clear there is less need to manufacture HDL. If we call the base figures an arbitrary unitless "100" Your new triglycerides would be "57" Your new HDL would be           "98" You new TG:HDL ratio would be   57/98 = 58 That means you dropped your TG:HDL ratio a cracking 42% >My wholly OTC regime calls for ground Flax seed, Benecol Margarine, >policosinol, time-release Niacin,  Psyllium, fish oil and Guggul.   (I just >couldn’t handle the soy flour recommendation.)

Decisions, decisions, decisions.  Out of the seven supplements you are taking I take only two.  That has been the decision I made. I’ll not bore you with logic that I used to support that decision since the past is past and I’m forced to make fresh decisions.  High blood pressure and cholesterol profile are intimately linked. By improving one I assist the normalisation of the other. Its all feedback and certain guiding principles remain, learn from the success of others or do the other thing.   I’m with you on the soy flour.  While many effects have been attributed to the isoflavone content, the high arginine content of the protein is a more likely candidate and flax fibre is a good source. >BTW, the regime also cures constipation.

I’ll bet it does and that probably lowers some other risks. >Regards >  Old Al

Once again special thanks, you have reminded me once again what makes this place so valuable.   Best wishes, — Quentin Grady       ^  ^  / New Zealand,       >#,#< [                     / /     "… and the blind dog was leading." http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin

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>Your hdl went down 4 points?  The niacin is said to be a very effective, >if not the most, way to increase hdl.

     It went from 54 to 52 mg/dL,   or from "high" to "high".     Another way of looking at it,  it went from 26% of Total Cholesterol to 33% of Total Cholesterol. AFAIK,  HDL is a "mechanism" cholesterol.   It does some transferring.   Cut the "transferee" supply substantially, and one could expect the "transferer" supply to see some sort of decrease. . .but that’s only a wild guess. Regards   Old Al

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> past is past and I’m forced to make fresh decisions.  High blood > pressure and cholesterol profile are intimately linked. By improving

Would that mean that as long as my B.P. stays low I should consider lipid profile twice a year as sufficient?

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This post not CC’d by email > past is past and I’m forced to make fresh decisions.  High blood > pressure and cholesterol profile are intimately linked. By improving >Would that mean that as long as my B.P. stays low >I should consider lipid profile twice a year >as sufficient?

G’day G’day Wes,   Darn. I don’t know.   Some questions would take a panel of doctors to answer and even they might disagree. What I do know is here is NZ if you are high risk they check blood profile quarterly. If you are low risk it isn’t even twice a year. It is once a year.  I have been wandering along in the realms of low perceived risk for some time now despite being T2 diabetic. Best wishes, — Quentin Grady       ^  ^  / New Zealand,       >#,#< [                     / /     "… and the blind dog was leading." http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin

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Old Al you are doing good Loretta — In tribute to the United States of America and the State of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and terrorism.

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This post not CC’d by email >My wholly OTC regime calls for ground Flax seed, Benecol Margarine, >policosinol, time-release Niacin,  Psyllium, fish oil and Guggul.   (I just >couldn’t handle the soy flour recommendation.)

G’day Al,   There has been a lot of talk these days about a polypill. The originators of the idea envisage it being taken by people 55 years old and over.   It might have seven or eight meds in lower than normal doses. In the meantime there is the Portfolio diet which utilises a collection of dietary interventions.  The Portfolio diet gets strong support from the purveyors of psyllium, sterol enriched margarine and soy who naturally would like to convey the impression that THEIR ingredient was the vital one. http://thesoydailyclub.com/Food/loblawportfolio08052003.asp Whatever, there is also almonds, oats, barley, eggplant and other vegetables. IMHO there is a general strategy here … making small incremental gains along different pathways without ever demanding too much of any one item. In the original research they also made the diet vegetarian to reduce cholesterol intake.  What significance that had will only be ascertained when someone tries the Portfolio diet with people who eat meat.   Best wishes, — Quentin Grady       ^  ^  / New Zealand,       >#,#< [                     / /     "… and the blind dog was leading." http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin

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