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Question:

> NO, cooking herbs are usually used in small quanitits.  The only herbs I > use in any quanity are mint, sativa,  and oregano.  The rest are in > small bottles

Have you ever heard of menthol?   It comes from mint.   Oil of Oregano is being used as a natural antibiotic.    Quantities may differ for different applications. Cooking herbs are often used in medicinal ways.   Plants have effects, some good, some bad, some in ways that taste good and some in medicinal ways. Thinking otherwise is not knowing the facts. But as far as I know there aren’t any herbs that cure diabetes, so we are all just batting our gums here.

Response:

Ah but you are. The subject we are talking about is a cooking herb being used as a med. Or is it a medical herb being used while cooking? Sleepy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >cc’d by email >I am not talking about COOKING herbs >>This post not CC’d by email >>>cc’d by email >>>Stay away from Fenugrek – and all "herbs" and "supplement" > I think that is way too blanket a statement. Some people would think > that it is unhealthy to cook with parsley, sage, rosemary, and thyme. > Also, I take two different supplements per day. A multi-vitamin, and > fish oil. I don’t see anything dangerous about either. > Sleepy > Support bacteria. They’re the only culture some people have

Support bacteria. They’re the only culture some people have

Response:

NO, cooking herbs are usually used in small quanitits.  The only herbs I use in any quanity are mint, sativa,  and oregano.  The rest are in small bottles – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Ah but you are. The subject we are talking about is a cooking herb > being used as a med. Or is it a medical herb being used while cooking? > Sleepy >cc’d by email >I am not talking about COOKING herbs >>>This post not CC’d by email >>>>cc’d by email >>>>Stay away from Fenugrek – and all "herbs" and "supplement" >>I think that is way too blanket a statement. Some people would think >>that it is unhealthy to cook with parsley, sage, rosemary, and thyme. >>Also, I take two different supplements per day. A multi-vitamin, and >>fish oil. I don’t see anything dangerous about either. >>Sleepy >>Support bacteria. They’re the only culture some people have > Support bacteria. They’re the only culture some people have

Response:

> cc’d by email > I am not talking about COOKING herbs

Many of those have medicinal effects also. Recently someone sent me an article indicating sage might be effective for alzheimers disease, knowing that my mother in law has this.   I wouldn’t dream of taking a chance in giving her anything unproven, even something we use in cooking like sage. I have since heard that sage oil can be poisonous! Herbs have real effects, and some are dangerous.   Many herbs we use in cooking were originally intended to preserve foods or to mask unpleasant flavors and odors but we continue to use them for taste alone nowadays. — Evelyn "Since everything is but an apparition, perfect in being what it is, having nothing to do with good or bad, acceptance or rejection, one may well burst into laughter."    -Longchenpa – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>This post not CC’d by email >>>cc’d by email >>>Stay away from Fenugrek – and all "herbs" and "supplement" > I think that is way too blanket a statement. Some people would think > that it is unhealthy to cook with parsley, sage, rosemary, and thyme. > Also, I take two different supplements per day. A multi-vitamin, and > fish oil. I don’t see anything dangerous about either. > Sleepy > Support bacteria. They’re the only culture some people have

Response:

> As far as I know, the only good use for anything named > "wort", is to > make beer out of it. > Sleepy

I’ll drink to that… LOL  BJ

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > People are free to use what they want.  I don’t use these > uncontrolled products.  When young I had trouble several > times listening to the lore. I thought some items worked > but when I discontinued them it made no difference. All > in my mind. > It is you money and your life, so I can not tell you what to > do. > So many lazy people want your money.  Stay up night figuring > a way to get it.  The "biggies" drugs are very costly but you > do get something for you money.    Spammers do not care about > your > health but care about your hard earned money.   A few > will be back trying to sell a cure for the problem they cause, > then trying to sell your survivors a tombstone for you. > A few Docs may be in the same category. >                                                Guy >> Has anyone heard of Fenugreek Seed and its possible glycemic >> control properties? >> My vitamin store suggests this herb may help control blood >> sugar levels, however, that was the extent of their >> recommendation. Commets please. Thanks >> Charles > Vitamin Store? BJ

I’m still wondering what a Vitamin Store is?  :-) BJ

Response:

cc’d by email I am not talking about COOKING herbs – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->This post not CC’d by email >>cc’d by email >>Stay away from Fenugrek – and all "herbs" and "supplement" > I think that is way too blanket a statement. Some people would think > that it is unhealthy to cook with parsley, sage, rosemary, and thyme. > Also, I take two different supplements per day. A multi-vitamin, and > fish oil. I don’t see anything dangerous about either. > Sleepy > Support bacteria. They’re the only culture some people have

Response:

This post not CC’d by email >cc’d by email >Well Quenton >We are in agreement on a lot of this >1) The stuff appears to affect BG.

G’day G’day Ted,  In the amounts I take the effect is slight. I most certainly would not rely on it as a substitute for the Diamicron subscribed by my GP. >2) It is extremely difficult to know what you are getting.

Also true.  Supplements I buy come from a registered compounding pharmacist. >There is an additional point I would make in regard to many active drugs >sold as "herbs" >That is that we do not KNOW what the effective agent(s) are, what the >effective dosages are, and what the counterindications are,

I think we both agree over herbs.  Many of them are sold either as standardised extracts or unstandardized.  As you say, for many of them the effective agents are unknown.  Worse than that when not standardised there is the matter of variation in potency with the time when they were harvested, variations in growing conditions due to climatic conditions, length of storage, temperature and humidity during storage.  Put simply there are a lot of variables. >Also, in the US in particular, the FDA has no jurisdiction over "herbs" >and "supplements" so they make sure that a package of lettuce contains >lettuce, and weighs what it says, and meats cleanliness standards, and… >But not "herbal" or "supplement"  They could be selling you ground rat >hair, and calling it anything they want.

They could.  Australia and New Zealand differ markedly in the degree of regulation.  Australia has tight regulation and New Zealand doesn’t. We really do depend on the reputation of the company selling the supplements.   Now that might seem pretty irrelevant say to people living in England, Canada or the USA but there are lessons to be learnt from the PAM pharmaceuticals experience in Australia. The over the counter med that caused people to hallucinate and want to jump out of aeroplanes was NOT a herb and it was NOT a supplement.  It was an over the counter travel calm medication … the sort of thing that presumably would come under the FDA description of a drug. >People HAVE died from taking Fenugrek.  As far as I know, only infants, >but I have not done exhaustive research.

You might well be right.  A retarded boy died of epsom salts given as a laxative when regularly given many times the adult dose.  People die of asprin.  People have even committed suicide with asprin. >As for curry powder, since it is sold as a food, it IS subject to FDA >inspection and standards.  Fenugrek is WAY down the list of ingredients. >  Last time I bought the Fenugrek (for cooking) a 2 oz bottle lasted me >20 years – when I threw most of it out, because it was too old.

Fenugreek has a strong and penetrating smell.  While it is typical of what Westerner’s call a curry smell, many curries don’t even include it. >Hyper will kill you slowly – Hypo can kill you fast.  ANYTHING which can >throw you hypo should be approached with extreme caution.  Herb, >supplement, med, diet, exercise.  when talking about lowering BG >BE CAREFUL

Sounds like good advice to me. Best wishes, — Quentin Grady       ^  ^  / New Zealand,       >#,#< [                     / /     "… and the blind dog was leading." http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin

Response:

>This post not CC’d by email >cc’d by email >Stay away from Fenugrek – and all "herbs" and "supplement"

I think that is way too blanket a statement. Some people would think that it is unhealthy to cook with parsley, sage, rosemary, and thyme. Also, I take two different supplements per day. A multi-vitamin, and fish oil. I don’t see anything dangerous about either. Sleepy Support bacteria. They’re the only culture some people have

Response:

This post not CC’d by email >People probably use large quantities of fenugreek in curry powders. >For those that don’t know fenugreek is the spice whose smell has >penetrative powers you can smell it through the shrink wrap on packets >in supermarket curry. >In the category of for what it’s worth: the recipes I have (ok, that I >briefly checked) call for 1 tsp (5ml) in a curry of  servings >MrBill

G’day G’day MrBill,   Thanks.  The number of servings appears to be deleted.   Fenugreek also appears in recipes for a dressing for green beans. Best wishes, — Quentin Grady       ^  ^  / New Zealand,       >#,#< [                     / /     "… and the blind dog was leading." http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin

Response:

As far as I know, the only good use for anything named "wort", is to make beer out of it. Sleepy >Study by a hospital of some 2500 subjects and St John’s wort reported in >today’s LA Times.  Like many other "natural" and "herbal" products, St John’s >wort had an effect on medications including those taken for cholesterol, high >blood pressure, and birth control.   >Whatever you decide about fenugreek or any other herb, CHECK WITH YOUR DOCTOR >ON THE INTERACTION  WITH YOUR MEDICATIONS. >Nan, Type 2

Support bacteria. They’re the only culture some people have

Response:

cc’d by email Well Quenton We are in agreement on a lot of this 1) The stuff appears to affect BG 2) It is extremely difficult to know what you are getting . There is an additional point I would make in regard to many active drugs sold as "herbs" That is that we do not KNOW what the effective agent(s) are, what the effective dosages are, and what the counterindications are, Also, in the US in particular, the FDA has no jurisdiction over "herbs" and "supplements" so they make sure that a package of lettuce contains lettuce, and weighs what it says, and meats cleanliness standards, and… But not "herbal" or "supplement"  They could be selling you ground rat hair, and calling it anything they want. People HAVE died from taking Fenugrek.  As far as I know, only infants, but I have not done exhaustive research. As for curry powder, since it is sold as a food, it IS subject to FDA inspection and standards.  Fenugrek is WAY down the list of ingredients.   Last time I bought the Fenugrek (for cooking) a 2 oz bottle lasted me 20 years – when I threw most of it out, because it was too old. Hyper will kill you slowly – Hypo can kill you fast.  ANYTHING which can throw you hypo should be approached with extreme caution.  Herb, supplement, med, diet, exercise.  when talking about lowering BG BE CAREFUL – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > This post not CC’d by email >cc’d by email >Stay away from Fenugrek – and all "herbs" and "supplement" > G’day G’day Ted, >   Most people recognise and opinion when they see it. >YES, Fenugreek can sometimes drop your BG – DROP, not control.  It can >kill you in a flash. > For three years I have taken Glucon which contains amongst other > things 50 mg of 4:1 extract of fenugreek. (So far no flashes have been > reported in my vicinity  and any reports of my death are greatly > exaggerated. I am not yet looking for a ghost writer. <grin>)   > It doesn’t make a dramatic difference to my blood glucose levels. > When I have stopped and restarted it for some reason there appears to > be a 10% difference. > What would be unwise is experimenting with uncontrolled doses of > fenugreek. >You have no way of knowing what dosage of the active ingredients are in >any of the stuff > Unfortunately one is dependent on the reputation of individual > supplement manufacturers. Some are reliable, some are scum bags. > Legislation has so far been shown to be ineffective in regulating the > industry. >You are probably safe with most curry powders. > People probably use large quantities of fenugreek in curry powders. > For those that don’t know fenugreek is the spice whose smell has > penetrative powers you can smell it through the shrink wrap on packets > in supermarket curry. >>Has anyone heard of Fenugreek Seed and its possible glycemic control >>properties? >>My vitamin store suggests this herb may help control blood sugar levels, >>however, that was the extent of their recommendation. Commets please. >>Thanks >>Charles

Response:

This post not CC’d by email >cc’d by email >Stay away from Fenugrek – and all "herbs" and "supplement"

G’day G’day Ted,   Most people recognise and opinion when they see it. >YES, Fenugreek can sometimes drop your BG – DROP, not control.  It can >kill you in a flash.

For three years I have taken Glucon which contains amongst other things 50 mg of 4:1 extract of fenugreek. (So far no flashes have been reported in my vicinity  and any reports of my death are greatly exaggerated. I am not yet looking for a ghost writer. <grin>)   It doesn’t make a dramatic difference to my blood glucose levels. When I have stopped and restarted it for some reason there appears to be a 10% difference. What would be unwise is experimenting with uncontrolled doses of fenugreek. >You have no way of knowing what dosage of the active ingredients are in >any of the stuff

Unfortunately one is dependent on the reputation of individual supplement manufacturers. Some are reliable, some are scum bags. Legislation has so far been shown to be ineffective in regulating the industry. >You are probably safe with most curry powders.

People probably use large quantities of fenugreek in curry powders. For those that don’t know fenugreek is the spice whose smell has penetrative powers you can smell it through the shrink wrap on packets in supermarket curry. > Has anyone heard of Fenugreek Seed and its possible glycemic control > properties? > My vitamin store suggests this herb may help control blood sugar levels, > however, that was the extent of their recommendation. Commets please. > Thanks > Charles

– Quentin Grady       ^  ^  / New Zealand,       >#,#< [                     / /     "… and the blind dog was leading." http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin

Response:

Study by a hospital of some 2500 subjects and St John’s wort reported in today’s LA Times.  Like many other "natural" and "herbal" products, St John’s wort had an effect on medications including those taken for cholesterol, high blood pressure, and birth control.   Whatever you decide about fenugreek or any other herb, CHECK WITH YOUR DOCTOR ON THE INTERACTION  WITH YOUR MEDICATIONS. Nan, Type 2

Response:

Has anyone heard of Fenugreek Seed and its possible glycemic control properties? My vitamin store suggests this herb may help control blood sugar levels, however, that was the extent of their recommendation. Commets please. Thanks Charles

Response:

It might be helpful, consider the below.  The first is a general survey and the second results of research with t2 folk.  My advice in using anything like this is to consider that there is no silver bullit pill or substance to substitute for the long term exercise, weight control, and control of carbs as the first steps, aided by meds and/or suppliments. http://www.diabetesforum.net/eng_diet_Fenugreek_Seeds.htm http://makeashorterlink.com/?Z3E8329F5 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Has anyone heard of Fenugreek Seed and its possible glycemic control >properties? >My vitamin store suggests this herb may help control blood sugar levels, >however, that was the extent of their recommendation. Commets please. >Thanks >Charles

Response:

cc’d by email Stay away from Fenugrek – and all "herbs" and "supplement" YES, Fenugreek can sometimes drop your BG – DROP, not control.  It can kill you in a flash. You have no way of knowing what dosage of the active ingredients are in any of the stuff You are probably safe with most curry powders. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Has anyone heard of Fenugreek Seed and its possible glycemic control > properties? > My vitamin store suggests this herb may help control blood sugar levels, > however, that was the extent of their recommendation. Commets please. > Thanks > Charles

Response:

> Has anyone heard of Fenugreek Seed and its possible glycemic > control properties? > My vitamin store suggests this herb may help control blood > sugar levels, however, that was the extent of their > recommendation. Commets please. Thanks > Charles

Vitamin Store? BJ

Response:

People are free to use what they want.  I don’t use these uncontrolled products.  When young I had trouble several times listening to the lore. I thought some items worked but when I discontinued them it made no difference. All in my mind. It is you money and your life, so I can not tell you what to do. So many lazy people want your money.  Stay up night figuring a way to get it.  The "biggies" drugs are very costly but you do get something for you money.    Spammers do not care about your health but care about your hard earned money.   A few will be back trying to sell a cure for the problem they cause, then trying to sell your survivors a tombstone for you. A few Docs may be in the same category.                                                Guy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Has anyone heard of Fenugreek Seed and its possible glycemic > control properties? > My vitamin store suggests this herb may help control blood > sugar levels, however, that was the extent of their > recommendation. Commets please. Thanks > Charles >Vitamin Store? BJ

Response: