> Hey all, > I am hoping to find as much information as possible on the following:  who > and what are the top/leading alternative energy companies in the world and > USA.,and who are the fastest growing in the last 5 years.  What companies > are doing the most research and development in alternative forms of energy? > Any info or references regarding these subjects at all would be greatly > appreciated. > Thank you

You may find "Caddet" a useful resource. Search the name Caddet with 2 "Ds" Enjoy

Response:

Hey all, I am hoping to find as much information as possible on the following:  who and what are the top/leading alternative energy companies in the world and USA.,and who are the fastest growing in the last 5 years.  What companies are doing the most research and development in alternative forms of energy? Any info or references regarding these subjects at all would be greatly appreciated. Thank you

Response:

Not sure if I understand what you asking;;;;investor profiles and fundamentals????

> Hey all, > I am hoping to find as much information as possible on the following:  who > and what are the top/leading alternative energy companies in the world and > USA.,and who are the fastest growing in the last 5 years.  What companies > are doing the most research and development in alternative forms of energy? > Any info or references regarding these subjects at all would be greatly > appreciated. > Thank you

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Response:

>> You could not have prevented it.  You may have been able to > delay it somewhat, but you could not have prevented it. > Skinny people get diabetes, perfect weight persons get diabetes, > overweight people get diabetes.  It’s not something we "give" > to ourselves. > I disagree with this.  There is no guarantee, of course; all kinds of people > do get diabetes, and all kinds of people do not get diabetes.  The reality, > though, is that obesity "can" (not "does") induce diabetes, and that > maintaining a normal weight "can" (not "will") prevent diabetes.  

Yeah, that’s why you shouldn’t point blame.  Your weight MAY have had something to do with the timing, and may not have. The point I’m trying to make is that concentrating on what you may have done is nonproductive, no, counter-productive. > Denial! Denial! Denial!  Maybe if I keep those nosy Medicos out > of my body, I will no longer have diabetes.  Maybe I never really > had it.  The diagnosis was wrong.  They misinterpreted the results. > I deleted my message for the sake of brevity, but it said nothing about > denial!  I did not suggest that the diabetes would go away, that I was > misdiagnosed, or that I could cease treatment of diabetes.  I only said that > I can only carry so much at one time and that I cannot currently bear the > thought of other diseases, disorders, or malfunctions of my body.

I just used the diagnosis of diabetes as an example.  Your actual denial was: > No, you cannot do a liver > function test, no you cannot do a kidney function test, no you cannot > retest my lipid profile, no you can’t look into the back of my eyes.

I am not blaming you for your feelings, but you are short-circuiting your medical team.  They want to do those tests to avoid complications — to catch things early to treat your whole self. In this situation, you are able to deny the things that have not yet been diagnosed. > Ah, those pesky personal relationships.  You’ll need to ignore those > things for a while and concentrate on your feelings about yourself. > Yeah, but it sure is hard to ignore those relationships when I need people the most!

Again: > one who is jealous that I am losing weight and she isn’t, or the one > who is so scared by my fears that he cannot even look me in the eye, > or the one who > yells at me over the single teaspoon of sugar in my single morning cup of > coffee, or the one who cannot cope with being the helper since that’s > been my job for the past 11 years,

*Those* are the things you have to put aside for a while.  They are not helping you — they are detrimental.  Consider whether they are treating you like a friend, whether they really are your friends. Your Dad is a different story.  He gives you strength, support, and love, unconditionally.  I’m so sorry that he’s so far away. Be sure to take him into your heart totally — he will provide that support long after he is gone.   I know, my Dad passed seven years ago, and he still follows me around, helping me, supporting me, giving me love.  He and I are inseparable.  That is a treasure that I will never lose. Jude —         Crouch Enterprises – Telecom, Internet & Unix Consulting       Oak Park, IL  708-848-0134  URL: http://www.pobox.com/~jcrouch

Response:

Thanks Niki.  I appreciate the "long" answer! Sherry – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Stands for polycystic ovarian syndrome.  It is a condition where eggs do not > mature and are not released from the ovary, rather remaining there as > "cysts".  It’s a definite chicken and egg sort of problem.  The fact that > the egg is not released causes a deficiency in a hormone that then prevents > the next egg from being released.  It is connected with obesity (there is > controversy over whether the disorder causes obesity or is caused by > obesity) and often precedes endocrine problems like hypothyroidism and type > II diabetes.  Many women who have PCOS have hyperinsulinemia (excess insulin > in their systems), and there is currently experimental use of metformin to > treat PCOS in women with and without diabetes.  My doctor recently suggested > that I remain on metformin to treat this condition even if my blood sugar > stays under control with only diet and exercise.  PCOS normally causes > infertility – I have not researched whether that can be successfully > reversed.  The only treatment I have had for PCOS is to take Provera if my > periods are not regular.  I think it’s most aggressively treated in women > who want to have children.  That was a long answer…..sorry! > What’s PCOS? > Sherry > > <snip> > > maintaining a normal weight "can" (not "will") prevent diabetes.  I > hadseveral > > risk factors, like obesity, bad nutrition, lack of exercise, > familyhistory, > > and PCOS.  I could have chosen to eliminate three of those risk factors, > and I > > did not.  (weight loss may also reverse PCOS.)  I took agamble and I > lost. > > And even if I had "only" delayed the onset of diabetes, > > <snip>

Response:

What’s PCOS? Sherry – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > <snip> > maintaining a normal weight "can" (not "will") prevent diabetes.  I hadseveral > risk factors, like obesity, bad nutrition, lack of exercise, familyhistory, > and PCOS.  I could have chosen to eliminate three of those risk factors, and I > did not.  (weight loss may also reverse PCOS.)  I took agamble and I lost. > And even if I had "only" delayed the onset of diabetes, > <snip>

Response:

Stands for polycystic ovarian syndrome.  It is a condition where eggs do not mature and are not released from the ovary, rather remaining there as "cysts".  It’s a definite chicken and egg sort of problem.  The fact that the egg is not released causes a deficiency in a hormone that then prevents the next egg from being released.  It is connected with obesity (there is controversy over whether the disorder causes obesity or is caused by obesity) and often precedes endocrine problems like hypothyroidism and type II diabetes.  Many women who have PCOS have hyperinsulinemia (excess insulin in their systems), and there is currently experimental use of metformin to treat PCOS in women with and without diabetes.  My doctor recently suggested that I remain on metformin to treat this condition even if my blood sugar stays under control with only diet and exercise.  PCOS normally causes infertility – I have not researched whether that can be successfully reversed.  The only treatment I have had for PCOS is to take Provera if my periods are not regular.  I think it’s most aggressively treated in women who want to have children.  That was a long answer…..sorry!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> What’s PCOS? > Sherry > <snip> > maintaining a normal weight "can" (not "will") prevent diabetes.  I hadseveral > risk factors, like obesity, bad nutrition, lack of exercise, familyhistory, > and PCOS.  I could have chosen to eliminate three of those risk factors, and I > did not.  (weight loss may also reverse PCOS.)  I took agamble and I lost. > And even if I had "only" delayed the onset of diabetes, > <snip>

Response:

> You could not have prevented it.  You may have been able to > delay it somewhat, but you could not have prevented it. > Skinny people get diabetes, perfect weight persons get diabetes, > overweight people get diabetes.  It’s not something we "give" > to ourselves.

I disagree with this.  There is no guarantee, of course; all kinds of people do get diabetes, and all kinds of people do not get diabetes.  The reality, though, is that obesity "can" (not "does") induce diabetes, and that maintaining a normal weight "can" (not "will") prevent diabetes.  I had several risk factors, like obesity, bad nutrition, lack of exercise, family history, and PCOS.  I could have chosen to eliminate three of those risk factors, and I did not.  (weight loss may also reverse PCOS.)  I took a gamble and I lost.  And even if I had "only" delayed the onset of diabetes, that would have been a fine alternative, since the likelyhood of complications increases with the length of time one has the diseae.  This does not mean that I should continue to beat myself up about it, but it is important to me to accept my share of the responsibility.  I also have several risk factors for cardiovascular problems – obesity, lack of exercise, diabetes, high cholersterol, smoking, and borderline hypertension. I can eliminate or vastly reduce the impact of all of those risk factors. If I choose not to do so, and I have a heart attack at 50, well, does that mean I’ve given myself a heart attack?  No it doesn’t, but I sure did hold the door open and invite it. > Many of us have gone thru this.  You know that this is the real > problem right now.  You have to sort things out and make sure > that the *diagnosis* doesn’t kill you.  I mean that in the > sense of destroying your life.  Right now, the diagnosis is > consuming you.  You haven’t accepted the diagnosis yet, and > you are fighting back because you think it’s going to be so > much worse.  "It ain’t necessarily so", in the words of the > famous song.  In the next paragraph, you clearly know what has > to be done.  Yes, your life is going to change.  In many ways > it’s going to change for the better.

This is great advice, and I thank you for it.  And hopefully I will soon be able to live it… > Here’s a statistic for you… all living things die — 100 percent. > Our goal is a good quality of life, and living a life that makes a > difference.  Your church activities, your music, they make a > difference in the lives of others.  You have to focus back on them. > Your job — a necessary evil, huh?  To remain healthy you must > have the resources!  Put the diagnosis in the back of your mind > and concentrate on your life.

For me, it is all about quality of life – not about dying.  I have been studying the organ for several years, with the goal of mastering the instrument and becoming a church organist.  Learning that I have a disease which is the leading cause of amputations in this country certainly leads me to have fears about the quality of my life. > Denial! Denial! Denial!  Maybe if I keep those nosy Medicos out > of my body, I will no longer have diabetes.  Maybe I never really > had it.  The diagnosis was wrong.  They misinterpreted the results.

I deleted my message for the sake of brevity, but it said nothing about denial!  I did not suggest that the diabetes would go away, that I was misdiagnosed, or that I could cease treatment of diabetes.  I only said that I can only carry so much at one time and that I cannot currently bear the thought of other diseases, disorders, or malfunctions of my body. > ACCEPTANCE.  You’ve gone thru the entire cycle now.  You’re going to > be much better.  You can control your health and I think you will. > That control is going to be your salvation.  With good control you > can live a long life with fewer complications.  Might you have some > setbacks? sure.  If you can get over your current burden, you’ll be > able to handle those setbacks well, too.

You’re right on! > Ah, those pesky personal relationships.  You’ll need to ignore those > things for a while and concentrate on your feelings about yourself.

Yeah, but it sure is hard to ignore those relationships when I need people the most! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> If a person takes their diagnosis seriously, their lifestyle changes > will increase their feeling of worth.  They start to eat better, > exercise, look better.  And they feel better, healthwise and > in relation to their self-image — the satisfation that they have > accomplished something major in their life and taken control, > rather than being controlled. > When you have worked on your person for a while, those around you > will only know the "new you", and these things will be much less > important.  Say Hi! to your Dad, give him a big hug, and tell him > you’ll be all right. > (About the sugar.  Sugar is a carb, like many other carbs.  Carbs > make your blood glucose rise.  If you adjust your diet (lifelong > eating plan) to include that spoon of sugar, there is no problem. > And only you are responsible for your diet — tell them to butt > out.)

This is all true and helpful, and I do feel great – I have more energy than I have in ages, and I enjoy the excercise.  Like I said, it’s hard because I need my friends and family.  Unfortunately, my dad is 3,000 miles away…how I long for that hug!…and with him, it’s a pendulum effect – on the one hand, I want him not to worry and to be strong and help me to cope, on the other, I am so secure in his love, and his worries remind me that my life matters to someone other than me! > Mourn what?  The fact that your body cannot use the insulin you > make?  Mourn what?  The fact that you finally realize that you > are not immortal?  You have lost nothing but your innocence.

Mourn a physical health that I no longer have!  Yeah, like I said, I am already healthier than I was before I got diabetes, and I will continue to become more healthy, but this is more than mere immortality!  It is more than a loss of innocence!  Diabetes is a chronic, incurable, potentially fatal disease.  It’s not all in my head! > All the best to you, Niki.  You are not alone, and we all care > about you.  Please keep us in your mind and prayers, and we’ll > do the same.  Report back when you are able.

Thanks – you are all in my thoughts and prayers… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Jude > — >         Crouch Enterprises – Telecom, Internet & Unix Consulting >       Oak Park, IL  708-848-0134  URL: http://www.pobox.com/~jcrouch

Response:

Actually, so far it has responded really well to treatment – since I began testing 2 weeks ago, the range has been fasting 84 – 117 and 2 hours after dinner 102-126.  This is a far cry from the 217 when I was diagnosed. The diet and exercise have led to about  15 pound weight loss (currently 5′5", 270) So it’s exciting – seeing such a quick response, and feeling like my body wants to be well if I will only treat it well.  I’m just not always confident that it will work is all…despite my MD’s claim that maintaining normal blood glucose levels is almost as good as not having diabetes in the first place.  The discipline is not hard to maintain – and I do have an occasional treat – but mostly the good levels are more gratifying than the treats!  I read somewhere about making an effort to maintain good nutrition about 80% of the time (I think it was about weight loss not diabetes) – my target is higher than 80% – but I like the concept – 19-20 of 21 meals each week – and it works – so once a week I’ll go out to dinner, and be conscientious, but not as anal as the ret of the time.  I struggle constantly between the part of me that wants to see diabetes as a wake up call that is an opportunity for good health (I am already more healthy than before the diagnosis) and the part of me that wants to just retreat and ignore the whole thing…Thanks so much for listening and your good advice!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi Nikki, > You were only diagnosed in April.  Keep up the diet and exercise and > give it time. > I was diagnosed in December.  At that time I was over 200 all the > time.  Yesterday my highest reading was the fasting when I got up in > the morning and that was 121.  The readings didn’t come down over > night, they came down gradually.  When I started taking glucotrol I > had an initial drop to between 150 and 200.  Then it took 2 months of > dieting and exercise before I saw any further improvement. > Be patient with yourself but don’t stop exercising and dieting.  Allow > yourself a treat even on a daily bases as long as you fit it into your > diet plan.  On special occasions allow yourself a splurge that’s not > in your diet plan, just don’t do that often or over do it too much. > When relatives give you a hard time about what you eat try to explain > that even diabetes can have limited amounts of sugar.  If they won’t > understand, ignore them or if your pushy like me I tell them to f*** > off (that everyone understands). > You can avoid complications.  The statistics you see were compiled > from years past when diabetes was not treated as aggressively as it is > today.  You have a good chance to avoid complications altogether if > you get your BG’s down and keep them down.  Just keep up what your > doing and you should see results. > I’m not a fan of taking a lot of meds but if your BG’s don’t drop soon > I would check with the doc about increasing or changing meds.  You can > always reduce them later if you need to. > Good Luck > Just another DeadHead Computer Nerd

Response:

Hi Nikki, You were only diagnosed in April.  Keep up the diet and exercise and give it time.   I was diagnosed in December.  At that time I was over 200 all the time.  Yesterday my highest reading was the fasting when I got up in the morning and that was 121.  The readings didn’t come down over night, they came down gradually.  When I started taking glucotrol I had an initial drop to between 150 and 200.  Then it took 2 months of dieting and exercise before I saw any further improvement.   Be patient with yourself but don’t stop exercising and dieting.  Allow yourself a treat even on a daily bases as long as you fit it into your diet plan.  On special occasions allow yourself a splurge that’s not in your diet plan, just don’t do that often or over do it too much. When relatives give you a hard time about what you eat try to explain that even diabetes can have limited amounts of sugar.  If they won’t understand, ignore them or if your pushy like me I tell them to f*** off (that everyone understands). You can avoid complications.  The statistics you see were compiled from years past when diabetes was not treated as aggressively as it is today.  You have a good chance to avoid complications altogether if you get your BG’s down and keep them down.  Just keep up what your doing and you should see results.   I’m not a fan of taking a lot of meds but if your BG’s don’t drop soon I would check with the doc about increasing or changing meds.  You can always reduce them later if you need to.                                         Good Luck Just another DeadHead Computer Nerd

Response:

> I may bore everyone to tears…if so, please skip over me!  It still > makes > me feel better to tell the story and not have to worry about anyone’s > reaction…

If you just wanted to get it off your chest, you would have written it in your diary!  I think you wanted to share your pain, but also I think you need some kind words of support and some comfort for some of those things you may misunderstand. > I was just diagnosed type II in April – only three weeks after my beloved > gramma died of kidney failure and heart disease that were secondary to > diabetes.  When I look back now, I recall having symptoms for about > 4 months > before the diagnosis (had last been tested in Nov. 97)  I was thirsty all > the time, and for the first time in my life, needed to get up at night to > pee, but I thought maybe it was just about getting older – a companion > to my > first gray hair.  (I’m 29.)  I cannot begin to describe my shock!   > I thought > only kids and middle aged people got diabetes!  

People of all ages get diabetes.  There are some age groups that get it more often, but diabetes has nothing to do with age. > I knew I was at risk, but > not how high the risk was, and I thought I still had plenty of time to > reduce risk factors like diet, weight, and exercise. > I have always tended to live without regret.  I have been able to > acknowledge my many mistakes in life, but I have valued them as > opportunities for learning, and don’t punish myself for them.  But > this….the years of not taking care of myself…I will regret this > forever, > it seems.  I probably could have prevented this, but I chose not to try. > Now I am paying the price for it…with only time to tell just how > high the price will be.  

You could not have prevented it.  You may have been able to delay it somewhat, but you could not have prevented it.   Skinny people get diabetes, perfect weight persons get diabetes, overweight people get diabetes.  It’s not something we "give" to ourselves. > Six weeks ago I was so happy – I loved everything about > my > life, I gave thanks every day for the many gifts that I had been given. > Today I am afraid that I will lose everything.  I have never been so >  lacking > in resilience!  I keep waiting to spring back, but I don’t.  I am > screwing > up at work, my church commitments, the choirs in which I sing, my organ > playing…all of things that make me value my life so much.  The > emotional > toll is so tremendous.

Many of us have gone thru this.  You know that this is the real problem right now.  You have to sort things out and make sure that the *diagnosis* doesn’t kill you.  I mean that in the sense of destroying your life.  Right now, the diagnosis is consuming you.  You haven’t accepted the diagnosis yet, and you are fighting back because you think it’s going to be so much worse.  "It ain’t necessarily so", in the words of the famous song.  In the next paragraph, you clearly know what has to be done.  Yes, your life is going to change.  In many ways it’s going to change for the better. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I have these moments when I am grateful for this diagnosis.  I did > not have > the self discipline before to control my weight, my food intake, to > develop > an exercise routine…but after the diagnosis, everything changed.   > My diet > is totally under my control – for the first time in my life I identify > and > respond to physiological hunger rather than emotional hunger.  I ride a > stationary bike for a half hour every day…and none of it seems to take > willpower or self discipline.  It just happens.  The new choices, like > the > old, are made at a psychic level that is beyond my reach.  So sometimes I > view diabetes as a wake up call – an opportunity for health and personal > growth.  But other times….I can’t take it.  I still take care of > myself – > as I said, I do not seem to have control over the decisions – even the > good > ones! – but I ride that bike while viewing myself in my mind’s eye – 35 > years old, blind, footless, hooked up to a dialysis machine having a > heart > attack.  The statistics spin endlessly in my mind – 80% of all diabetics > die > because of cardiovascular problems…complications can be prevented or > delayed…That’s not good enough.  Knowing how well I have responded to > treatment is not good enough.  Prevent or delay is not good enough.   > I want > total prevention.  I want to know that it is not too late for me to > make up > for the years of wrong choices.  I can’t hear anymore about it.

Here’s a statistic for you… all living things die — 100 percent. Our goal is a good quality of life, and living a life that makes a difference.  Your church activities, your music, they make a difference in the lives of others.  You have to focus back on them. Your job — a necessary evil, huh?  To remain healthy you must have the resources!  Put the diagnosis in the back of your mind and concentrate on your life. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Last week I walked out of a doctor’s appointment, refusing to give > a blood > sample, because I do not want to hear about one more f***ing thing that > is > wrong with me.  I went home and canceled the appointment with the > ophthalmologist because I cannot hear anymore.  The 217 fasting glucose > was > enough.  And the 276 cholesterol was enough.  And the 1093 triglycerides > was > enough.  And the 144/94 blood pressure was enough.  Diabetes is enough. > One > drug is enough.  Polycystic Ovary Syndrome is enough (thank god I have > never > wanted to have children!)  SYNDROME X IS ENOUGH.  I don’t want to hear > another word.  I can’t hear another word.  I have been seeing my current > doctor for six years, and she has been great (although I am angry that in > six years she never recommended that I lose weight until last week)  She > listens, she doesn’t rush, she returns my calls and will listen to me > panic > for an hour in the middle of her day.  She tells me that if she did not > think that I could be healthy, she would not come to work every day. > But she doesn’t get it – I can’t take anymore.  No, you cannot do a liver > function test, no you cannot do a kidney function test, no you cannot > retest > my lipid profile, no you can’t look into the back of my eyes.  

Denial! Denial! Denial!  Maybe if I keep those nosy Medicos out of my body, I will no longer have diabetes.  Maybe I never really had it.  The diagnosis was wrong.  They misinterpreted the results. > Today  I have > diabetes.  I can control my diet and I can take a drug and I can exercise > every day.  Let me see that work.  Let me process all of this.  Let me > feel like I can keep control of the rest of my life.

ACCEPTANCE.  You’ve gone thru the entire cycle now.  You’re going to be much better.  You can control your health and I think you will. That control is going to be your salvation.  With good control you can live a long life with fewer complications.  Might you have some setbacks? sure.  If you can get over your current burden, you’ll be able to handle those setbacks well, too. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Let me deal with the three people waiting in line at my office to tell me > that I am not responding quickly enough to their concerns, because it is > my work that makes me feel like my life has a purpose. > Let me negotiate with my choir director who recently suggested that > I drop > out since I cannot seem to focus, because it is the choir that brings > me joy > and takes me away from the things, like my illness, that I am most > afraid of and distressed by. > Let me figure out my relationships with my friends and family, like the > one who is jealous that I am losing weight and she isn’t, or the one > who is so scared by my fears that he cannot even look me in the eye, > or the one who > yells at me over the single teaspoon of sugar in my single morning cup of > coffee, or the one who cannot cope with being the helper since that’s > been > my job for the past 11 years, or my dad who cannot cope with his own > anxiety > about my illness because he loves me so, because without my friends and > family, I will not be able to get through this.

Ah, those pesky personal relationships.  You’ll need to ignore those things for a while and concentrate on your feelings about yourself. If a person takes their diagnosis seriously, their lifestyle changes will increase their feeling of worth.  They start to eat better, exercise, look better.  And they feel better, healthwise and in relation to their self-image — the satisfation that they have accomplished something major in their life and taken control, rather than being controlled. When you have worked on your person for a while, those around you will only know the "new you", and these things will be much less important.  Say Hi! to your Dad, give him a big hug, and tell him you’ll be all right. (About the sugar.  Sugar is a carb, like many other carbs.  Carbs make your blood glucose rise.  If you adjust your diet (lifelong eating plan) to include that spoon of sugar, there is no problem. And only you are responsible for your diet — tell them to butt out.) > Let me mourn what I have lost, because without such mourning I will > not be able to move ahead and take care of myself.

Mourn what?  The fact that your body cannot use the insulin you make?  Mourn what?  The fact that you finally realize that you are not immortal?  You have lost nothing but your innocence. All the best to you, Niki.  You are not alone, and we all care about you.  Please keep us in your mind and prayers, and we’ll do the same.  Report back when you are able. Jude —         Crouch Enterprises – Telecom, Internet & Unix Consulting       Oak Park, IL  708-848-0134  URL: http://www.pobox.com/~jcrouch

Response:

I may bore everyone to tears…if so, please skip over me!  It still makes me feel better to tell the story and not have to worry about anyone’s reaction… I was just diagnosed type II in April – only three weeks after my beloved gramma died of kidney failure and heart disease that were secondary to diabetes.  When I look back now, I recall having symptoms for about 4 months before the diagnosis (had last been tested in Nov. 97)  I was thirsty all the time, and for the first time in my life, needed to get up at night to pee, but I thought maybe it was just about getting older – a companion to my first gray hair.  (I’m 29.)  I cannot begin to describe my shock!  I thought only kids and middle aged people got diabetes!  I knew I was at risk, but not how high the risk was, and I thought I still had plenty of time to reduce risk factors like diet, weight, and exercise. I have always tended to live without regret.  I have been able to acknowledge my many mistakes in life, but I have valued them as opportunities for learning, and don’t punish myself for them.  But this….the years of not taking care of myself…I will regret this forever, it seems.  I probably could have prevented this, but I chose not to try. Now I am paying the price for it…with only time to tell just how high the price will be.  Six weeks ago I was so happy – I loved everything about my life, I gave thanks every day for the many gifts that I had been given. Today I am afraid that I will lose everything.  I have never been so lacking in resilience!  I keep waiting to spring back, but I don’t.  I am screwing up at work, my church commitments, the choirs in which I sing, my organ playing…all of things that make me value my life so much.  The emotional toll is so tremendous. I have these moments when I am grateful for this diagnosis.  I did not have the self discipline before to control my weight, my food intake, to develop an exercise routine…but after the diagnosis, everything changed.  My diet is totally under my control – for the first time in my life I identify and respond to physiological hunger rather than emotional hunger.  I ride a stationary bike for a half hour every day…and none of it seems to take willpower or self discipline.  It just happens.  The new choices, like the old, are made at a psychic level that is beyond my reach.  So sometimes I view diabetes as a wake up call – an opportunity for health and personal growth.  But other times….I can’t take it.  I still take care of myself – as I said, I do not seem to have control over the decisions – even the good ones! – but I ride that bike while viewing myself in my mind’s eye – 35 years old, blind, footless, hooked up to a dialysis machine having a heart attack.  The statistics spin endlessly in my mind – 80% of all diabetics die because of cardiovascular problems…complications can be prevented or delayed…That’s not good enough.  Knowing how well I have responded to treatment is not good enough.  Prevent or delay is not good enough.  I want total prevention.  I want to know that it is not too late for me to make up for the years of wrong choices.  I can’t hear anymore about it. Last week I walked out of a doctor’s appointment, refusing to give a blood sample, because I do not want to hear about one more f***ing thing that is wrong with me.  I went home and canceled the appointment with the ophthalmologist because I cannot hear anymore.  The 217 fasting glucose was enough.  And the 276 cholesterol was enough.  And the 1093 triglycerides was enough.  And the 144/94 blood pressure was enough.  Diabetes is enough.  One drug is enough.  Polycystic Ovary Syndrome is enough (thank god I have never wanted to have children!)  SYNDROME X IS ENOUGH.  I don’t want to hear another word.  I can’t hear another word.  I have been seeing my current doctor for six years, and she has been great (although I am angry that in six years she never recommended that I lose weight until last week)  She listens, she doesn’t rush, she returns my calls and will listen to me panic for an hour in the middle of her day.  She tells me that if she did not think that I could be healthy, she would not come to work every day. But she doesn’t get it – I can’t take anymore.  No, you cannot do a liver function test, no you cannot do a kidney function test, no you cannot retest my lipid profile, no you can’t look into the back of my eyes.  Today I have diabetes.  I can control my diet and I can take a drug and I can exercise every day.  Let me see that work.  Let me process all of this.  Let me feel like I can keep control of the rest of my life. Let me deal with the three people waiting in line at my office to tell me that I am not responding quickly enough to their concerns, because it is my work that makes me feel like my life has a purpose. Let me negotiate with my choir director who recently suggested that I drop out since I cannot seem to focus, because it is the choir that brings me joy and takes me away from the things, like my illness, that I am most afraid of and distressed by. Let me figure out my relationships with my friends and family, like the one who is jealous that I am losing weight and she isn’t, or the one who is so scared by my fears that he cannot even look me in the eye, or the one who yells at me over the single teaspoon of sugar in my single morning cup of coffee, or the one who cannot cope with being the helper since that’s been my job for the past 11 years, or my dad who cannot cope with his own anxiety about my illness because he loves me so, because without my friends and family, I will not be able to get through this. Let me mourn what I have lost, because without such mourning I will not be able to move ahead and take care of myself. Let me rest a while and be still and know my God, because without Him I will forget that I am cared for throughout eternity and that this life and its perils are only a moment.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi Ann, > Not as exciting as the last but here’s some rambling….. > I am 34 and was diagnosed diabetic ( type2) just last year after my wife had > had enough of my classic symptoms – that I was unaware of at the time. > However, I wouldn’t leave the house without a 2litre bottle of water with me > > I had my first clinic appointment on the day my daughter was born. > Stressful day- yes! > Obvious extra things I didn’t realise:  Eyesight – my eyesight is now crap. > My glasses are not right for me any more – and I hope this things settles. > Even though my control is pretty good, if I get very low ( sometimes 3.7 > mmols/l – not a hypo with Metformin???) I feel light headed and tired – > didn’t expect this with type 2 diabetes.  If I get very high ( 12mmols/l – > rarely these days) I feel quick tempered thirsty and hot ( and tired).  So > glad i’m not on insulin! > My problem is that I’m overweight by about 5 stones.  I managed to give up > my heavy smoking habit – but losing a few stones ( even one) is sooo hard. > The worst part of it is that I feel so guilty at not losing any weight > between visits to the clinic – I don’t want to go anymore!  If my wife > didn’t push me – I wouldn’t go. > My control has got better – diet obviously wasn’t working – although my > "diet" has greatly improved.  No obvious sugary things, cut all of my treats > ( chocolate etc) but portion sizes – still too big.  Doctor has put me on > Metformin and apart from the mild stomach probs ( wind etc) things are much > better.  My control is now practically always below 8 mmols / l – which is > near the optimum 6 mmols/l. > I’ve managed to cope with my beautiful baby girl ( 9 months old now), my > final year of a BSc. in Computer Science and hope to be starting a PhD. this > year.  he University have been neither supportive nor non-supportive > although I have discovered quite a few other diabetics of both types since I > was diagnosed.  Should have organised a "university support society" for > diabetic students.  If I am here next year I probably will! > Advice to give??  Learn about your "illness" and be able to make educated > informed decisions about your long term care.  We have a Doctor Hillson at > my hospital diabetes clinic who is a very pleasant woman – always prepared > to listen and advise.  Ask lots of questions and learn what to expect. > Diabetes doesn’t seem to be the end of the world – unless i’m not taking it > seriously enough – and I might not be. > Of course the consequences of not taking it seriously seem too scary to > Martin Boulger > Hello, >       My name is Ann Silverman. I am a registered nurse and I am > new to the Internet. I am a trained diabetic educator who is in > the process of writing a book tentatively titled "The > Psychological & Spiritual Aspects of Living with a Chronic > Disease". >      I am a Type 2 insulin dependent diabetic who is now > suffering from eye complications. I am seeking the words of those > who wish to offer help to others via their thoughts, feelings, > and stories about living with diabetes.  Please include what is > helpful to you and what you would like to see become available in > the way of support. Have you experienced prejudice in the > workplace? What do you use to cope? What form of support do you > find most beneficial? >      My main focus will be to share what I have learned about > diabetes as well as the physical and emotional trauma experienced > while living with this disease. >      If you wish to remain anonymous as it pertains to this book, > please indicate so in your reply.  I am really looking forward to > hearing from those who have something to share.even if it’s a > simple anecdote. > Thanks to

… read more »

Response:

Hi Ann, Not as exciting as the last but here’s some rambling….. I am 34 and was diagnosed diabetic ( type2) just last year after my wife had had enough of my classic symptoms – that I was unaware of at the time. However, I wouldn’t leave the house without a 2litre bottle of water with me I had my first clinic appointment on the day my daughter was born. Stressful day- yes! Obvious extra things I didn’t realise:  Eyesight – my eyesight is now crap. My glasses are not right for me any more – and I hope this things settles. Even though my control is pretty good, if I get very low ( sometimes 3.7 mmols/l – not a hypo with Metformin???) I feel light headed and tired – didn’t expect this with type 2 diabetes.  If I get very high ( 12mmols/l – rarely these days) I feel quick tempered thirsty and hot ( and tired).  So glad i’m not on insulin! My problem is that I’m overweight by about 5 stones.  I managed to give up my heavy smoking habit – but losing a few stones ( even one) is sooo hard. The worst part of it is that I feel so guilty at not losing any weight between visits to the clinic – I don’t want to go anymore!  If my wife didn’t push me – I wouldn’t go. My control has got better – diet obviously wasn’t working – although my "diet" has greatly improved.  No obvious sugary things, cut all of my treats ( chocolate etc) but portion sizes – still too big.  Doctor has put me on Metformin and apart from the mild stomach probs ( wind etc) things are much better.  My control is now practically always below 8 mmols / l – which is near the optimum 6 mmols/l. I’ve managed to cope with my beautiful baby girl ( 9 months old now), my final year of a BSc. in Computer Science and hope to be starting a PhD. this year.  he University have been neither supportive nor non-supportive although I have discovered quite a few other diabetics of both types since I was diagnosed.  Should have organised a "university support society" for diabetic students.  If I am here next year I probably will! Advice to give??  Learn about your "illness" and be able to make educated informed decisions about your long term care.  We have a Doctor Hillson at my hospital diabetes clinic who is a very pleasant woman – always prepared to listen and advise.  Ask lots of questions and learn what to expect. Diabetes doesn’t seem to be the end of the world – unless i’m not taking it seriously enough – and I might not be. Of course the consequences of not taking it seriously seem too scary to Martin Boulger

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hello, >       My name is Ann Silverman. I am a registered nurse and I am > new to the Internet. I am a trained diabetic educator who is in > the process of writing a book tentatively titled "The > Psychological & Spiritual Aspects of Living with a Chronic > Disease". >      I am a Type 2 insulin dependent diabetic who is now > suffering from eye complications. I am seeking the words of those > who wish to offer help to others via their thoughts, feelings, > and stories about living with diabetes.  Please include what is > helpful to you and what you would like to see become available in > the way of support. Have you experienced prejudice in the > workplace? What do you use to cope? What form of support do you > find most beneficial? >      My main focus will be to share what I have learned about > diabetes as well as the physical and emotional trauma experienced > while living with this disease. >      If you wish to remain anonymous as it pertains to this book, > please indicate so in your reply.  I am really looking forward to > hearing from those who have something to share.even if it’s a > simple anecdote. > Thanks to all in advance, > Ann Silverman > Toronto, Canada. > PS.I am cross posting this message to the few newsgroups and > mailing lists I feel will be helpful.  Please understand.

Response:

Hello,       My name is Ann Silverman. I am a registered nurse and I am new to the Internet. I am a trained diabetic educator who is in the process of writing a book tentatively titled

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> Let me light up a cigarette before I read the article. >> The sad part is that smokers (myself included) KNOW that cigarettes >> have very dire consequences on ones health. Creating yet another study >> proving that won’t help. Educating adolescents is the only solution to >> smoking, because they are the most vulnerable to peer pressure and other >> influences. That seems to be the reason behind this study, and I hope it >> works, >> because not starting to smoke is so much easier than trying to quit. >> I think I tried 10 times to quit, including cold turkey, the patch >> and the chewing gum and nothing worked. The only thing I found reduced >> the >> number of cigarettes I smoked was keeping myself busy. My record was 3 >> cigarettes in one day, and that was because I had to completely >> reassemble my >> old Yamaha RZ350 before a trip (I had the engine, carbs, front end, >> swing arm and brakes rebuilt, and needed to put everything back >> together). >> Cosmin > I used to think smokers who couldn’t quit were just copping out. That was > until I worked in an OB/Gyn clinic!  Those women would be terrified > that their babies would be affected, but were able to eat right, > exercise, and everything we told them they needed to do, but often could > *not* stop > smoking.  It was then that I realized what a powerful addiction > cigarette smoking is – wow! > Natalie > <snip> > The company I used to work for made medical devices.  It had as a > consultant a physician from Britain who had a world-wide reputation > in his field.  He was a heavy smoker.  When I got to know him well > enough, I asked him why he smoked, when he certainly knew the risk. His > answer was that he would run blood tests to know when he was > about to get cancer, and then quit.  I was certain he knew that there > is no such test, and I didn’t pursue the matter.  Addicts > rationalize. > Some time before that, I attended a meeting on surgical oncology – > the treatment of cancers by surgery.  In a session on lung cancer, > with many slides showing cancerous tissue removed from lungs – some > postmortem – several people were smoking! > Ask a smoker if he is addicted.  Most will deny it.

If the world renown "Body Worlds" exhibit comes to your city, go see it.  I visited the exhibit in Los Angles about 2 months ago.  There is on display some preserved human lungs from healthy and from diseased persons.  If that doesn’t get to the smoker …. then he/she must face the fact that they are a full blown addict to nicotine. http://www.bodyworlds.com/en/pages/home.asp http://www.californiasciencecenter.org/Exhibits/Weingart/BodyWorlds/B… —    ~Philip.

Response:

>> Cigarettes Worse for Air Than Cars > Ivanhoe Newswire > www.ivanhoe.com > September 1, 2004 > Holy smoke! The air pollution emitted by cigarettes may be 10-times > greater than diesel car exhaust. > I’m not defending second-hand tobacco smoke, but deisel engine > exhaust, especially the kind you can see, is much richer in > carcinogens.

Keep in mind that in Italy as in the rest of civilized Europe, diesel fuel is nearly sulfur free (15 parts per billion) compared to America and especially Canada. Also, diesel cars "over there" have much cleaner pollution control that light duty pickup trucks here.  Context. —    ~Philip.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Let me light up a cigarette before I read the article. >The sad part is that smokers (myself included) KNOW that cigarettes have >very dire consequences on ones health. Creating yet another study proving >that won’t help. Educating adolescents is the only solution to smoking, >because they are the most vulnerable to peer pressure and other influences. >That seems to be the reason behind this study, and I hope it works, because >not starting to smoke is so much easier than trying to quit. >I think I tried 10 times to quit, including cold turkey, the patch and the >chewing gum and nothing worked. The only thing I found reduced the number >of cigarettes I smoked was keeping myself busy. My record was 3 cigarettes >in one day, and that was because I had to completely reassemble my old >Yamaha RZ350 before a trip (I had the engine, carbs, front end, swing arm >and brakes rebuilt, and needed to put everything back together). >Cosmin > I used to think smokers who couldn’t quit were just copping out.  That was > until I worked in an OB/Gyn clinic!  Those women would be terrified that > their babies would be affected, but were able to eat right, exercise, and > everything we told them they needed to do, but often could *not* stop > smoking.  It was then that I realized what a powerful addiction cigarette > smoking is – wow! > Natalie

<snip> The company I used to work for made medical devices.  It had as a consultant a physician from Britain who had a world-wide reputation in his field.  He was a heavy smoker.  When I got to know him well enough, I asked him why he smoked, when he certainly knew the risk.  His answer was that he would run blood tests to know when he was about to get cancer, and then quit.  I was certain he knew that there is no such test, and I didn’t pursue the matter.  Addicts rationalize. Some time before that, I attended a meeting on surgical oncology – the treatment of cancers by surgery.  In a session on lung cancer, with many slides showing cancerous tissue removed from lungs – some postmortem – several people were smoking! Ask a smoker if he is addicted.  Most will deny it.

Response:

>> And exactly what does this have to do with Acura > Phillip, you multiposted to other NGs and now P.O.ed  the rich Acura > group.  Not to fear for I have corrected your error.

NOT an error, deil ol chap.  LOL  "The rich Acura group."   ROFLOL.

Response:

> Cigarettes Worse for Air Than Cars > Ivanhoe Newswire > www.ivanhoe.com > September 1, 2004 > Holy smoke! The air pollution emitted by cigarettes may be 10-times greater > than diesel car exhaust.

I’m not defending second-hand tobacco smoke, but deisel engine exhaust, especially the kind you can see, is much richer in carcinogens. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Investigators hope the negative comparison can be a valuable educational > message against tobacco use for adolescents. > Environmental tobacco smoke produces fine particulate matter, the most > dangerous element of air pollution. According to the new study, levels > indoors can far exceed those outdoors because new engine models and > lead-free fuels have cut the levels of particulate matter emissions from car > exhausts. > The study was conducted in a garage in a small, Italian mountain town where > there are very low levels of particulate matter air pollution. A turbo > diesel engine was left idling for 30 minutes in the garage with the doors > closed. Then, the doors were left open for four hours. The car was fueled > with low sulphur fuel. Three filter cigarettes were also lit up > sequentially, and left smoldering for another 30 minutes. > Results of the experiment show the diesel engine exhaust doubled the > particulate matter levels found outdoors at its peak. > The environmental tobacco smoke particulate matter reached levels 15-times > higher than those measured outdoors. > This article was reported by Ivanhoe.com, who offers Medical Alerts by > e-mail every day of the week. To subscribe, go to: > http://www.ivanhoe.com/newsalert/. > SOURCE: Tobacco Control, 2004;13:219-221

Response:

[snip] > My brother a smoker since his teens tried to stop using every method, > patch, gum, hypnosis, cold turkey 3+ times, behavior modification and > then Zyban.   > Zyban was amazingly effective for him.  After the second day on the > product he couldn’t even light up it made him feel so ill.  He was so > happy that he’d finally found something that worked. > It did have some "minor" side effects,  he couldn’t sleep, felt > jittery & he had tremors.  He was on Zyban for about 2 months before > he committed suicide at 38 (the first ever in our family).    A doctor > had prescribed Zyban and monitored the dose.

[snip] I have looked into Zyban myself, and had considered taking it in order to quite smoking, but did not for exactly the reason you mentioned. It has horrible side effects in some people. While it works for most people, if you are one of the unlucky ones then you are in trouble. Cosmin

Response:

There’s only one accurate cure for smokers: the guillotine

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Let me light up a cigarette before I read the article. > The sad part is that smokers (myself included) KNOW that cigarettes have > very dire consequences on ones health. Creating yet another study proving > that won’t help. Educating adolescents is the only solution to smoking, > because they are the most vulnerable to peer pressure and other > influences. That seems to be the reason behind this study, and I hope it > works, because not starting to smoke is so much easier than trying to > quit. > I think I tried 10 times to quit, including cold turkey, the patch and the > chewing gum and nothing worked. The only thing I found reduced the number > of cigarettes I smoked was keeping myself busy. My record was 3 cigarettes > in one day, and that was because I had to completely reassemble my old > Yamaha RZ350 before a trip (I had the engine, carbs, front end, swing arm > and brakes rebuilt, and needed to put everything back together). > Cosmin

I too tryed "the patch" . Didnt work for me either, I couldn’t keep the damn thing lit!

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> Let me light up a cigarette before I read the article. >> The sad part is that smokers (myself included) KNOW that cigarettes have >> very dire consequences on ones health. Creating yet another study proving >> that won’t help. Educating adolescents is the only solution to smoking, >> because they are the most vulnerable to peer pressure and other influences. >> That seems to be the reason behind this study, and I hope it works, because >> not starting to smoke is so much easier than trying to quit. >> I think I tried 10 times to quit, including cold turkey, the patch and the >> chewing gum and nothing worked. The only thing I found reduced the number >> of cigarettes I smoked was keeping myself busy. My record was 3 cigarettes >> in one day, and that was because I had to completely reassemble my old >> Yamaha RZ350 before a trip (I had the engine, carbs, front end, swing arm >> and brakes rebuilt, and needed to put everything back together). >> Cosmin >I used to think smokers who couldn’t quit were just copping out.  That was >until I worked in an OB/Gyn clinic!  Those women would be terrified that >their babies would be affected, but were able to eat right, exercise, and >everything we told them they needed to do, but often could *not* stop >smoking.  It was then that I realized what a powerful addiction cigarette >smoking is – wow! >Natalie >Sorry to hear that.  I tried filters, patches, training programs, but >none worked for me.  One day, it came down to that I couldn’t afford >college for my wife, and my 3 pack/day habit.  I said I had to quit >and I did.  I promised myself I would start back up when I could >afford it, but that was 10+ years ago.  Now with a mortgage and a >child, I"m guessing I’ll have to remain smoke-free, but I do enjoy the >smell now and then. >Everyone who says they can’t just doesn’t want to.   >imho,

A different take to help put things in perspective.   My brother a smoker since his teens tried to stop using every method, patch, gum, hypnosis, cold turkey 3+ times, behavior modification and then Zyban.   Zyban was amazingly effective for him.  After the second day on the product he couldn’t even light up it made him feel so ill.  He was so happy that he’d finally found something that worked. It did have some "minor" side effects,  he couldn’t sleep, felt jittery & he had tremors.  He was on Zyban for about 2 months before he committed suicide at 38 (the first ever in our family).    A doctor had prescribed Zyban and monitored the dose. Then there’s my wife’s aunt. She smoked from her early teens till she died this past fall at 75. she was active, smoked 2 packs a day & her non-smoking husband is still alive, active and doing fine.  However neither one of them is or were overweight. Tobacco is not healthy.  But for some trying to quit may be too much. I smoked for a year & then quit.  But it was easy for me.  Not so for others. Using that stat posted in the article I think that it’s high time that we get the good Diesels here in North America.  Including the new 2005 GTi Turbo Diesel.  Ban Fast food & use the cooking oil for the fast Turbo Diesel’s.   More sub 7 sec 0-60, 140+ MPH Diesels I say !

Response:

1)    Did this woman lose too much too quickly? 2)    My wife smokes only sporadically and then not much, but I have refused to buy her duty-free cigs (I travel a lot) on same grounds. DAS — For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling —

[...] > to live.  I saw a lady on a documentary who had dropped well over 200 > pounds. She began to go insane; not from temptation, but because her body > reacted as though it were starving!  She became psychotic and very ill. > She ended up gaining the weight back, and in doing so, regained her > sanity.  Isn’t that [...] > (She lives in Massachusetts) she’d ask if I’d buy her cigarettes either in > NH (They’re quite a bit cheaper there) or at Westover AFB in Chicopee, MA. > I told her that while I know she won’t stop smoking because I refuse to > buy them for her, I could not in good conscience do that for her, because > that

[...]

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Let me light up a cigarette before I read the article. > The sad part is that smokers (myself included) KNOW that cigarettes have > very dire consequences on ones health. Creating yet another study proving > that won’t help. Educating adolescents is the only solution to smoking, > because they are the most vulnerable to peer pressure and other influences. > That seems to be the reason behind this study, and I hope it works, because > not starting to smoke is so much easier than trying to quit. > I think I tried 10 times to quit, including cold turkey, the patch and the > chewing gum and nothing worked. The only thing I found reduced the number > of cigarettes I smoked was keeping myself busy. My record was 3 cigarettes > in one day, and that was because I had to completely reassemble my old > Yamaha RZ350 before a trip (I had the engine, carbs, front end, swing arm > and brakes rebuilt, and needed to put everything back together). > Cosmin >I used to think smokers who couldn’t quit were just copping out.  That was >until I worked in an OB/Gyn clinic!  Those women would be terrified that >their babies would be affected, but were able to eat right, exercise, and >everything we told them they needed to do, but often could *not* stop >smoking.  It was then that I realized what a powerful addiction cigarette >smoking is – wow! >Natalie

Yup, nicotine addiction is as powerful as heroin addiction. If anyone is interested in this, check out the chapter "Nicotine as an addicting drug" http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/Library/studies/cu/CU25.html from "The Consumers Union Report  - Licit and Illicit Drugs" http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/Library/studies/cu/cumenu.htm —  /"  Jan Kalin (male, preferred languages: Slovene, English)   /  http://charm.zag.si/eng/, email: "name dot surname AT zag dot si"   X   ASCII ribbon campaign against HTML in mail and postings.  /  I’m a .signature virus. Copy me to help me spread.

Response:

And exactly what does this have to do with Acura – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Cigarettes Worse for Air Than Cars >Ivanhoe Newswire >www.ivanhoe.com >September 1, 2004 >Holy smoke! The air pollution emitted by cigarettes may be 10-times greater >than diesel car exhaust. >Investigators hope the negative comparison can be a valuable educational >message against tobacco use for adolescents. >Environmental tobacco smoke produces fine particulate matter, the most >dangerous element of air pollution. According to the new study, levels >indoors can far exceed those outdoors because new engine models and >lead-free fuels have cut the levels of particulate matter emissions from car >exhausts. >The study was conducted in a garage in a small, Italian mountain town where >there are very low levels of particulate matter air pollution. A turbo >diesel engine was left idling for 30 minutes in the garage with the doors >closed. Then, the doors were left open for four hours. The car was fueled >with low sulphur fuel. Three filter cigarettes were also lit up >sequentially, and left smoldering for another 30 minutes. >Results of the experiment show the diesel engine exhaust doubled the >particulate matter levels found outdoors at its peak. >The environmental tobacco smoke particulate matter reached levels 15-times >higher than those measured outdoors. >This article was reported by Ivanhoe.com, who offers Medical Alerts by >e-mail every day of the week. To subscribe, go to: >http://www.ivanhoe.com/newsalert/. >SOURCE: Tobacco Control, 2004;13:219-221

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Cigarettes Worse for Air Than Cars > Ivanhoe Newswire > www.ivanhoe.com > September 1, 2004 > Holy smoke! The air pollution emitted by cigarettes may be 10-times > greater than diesel car exhaust. > Investigators hope the negative comparison can be a valuable > educational message against tobacco use for adolescents. > Environmental tobacco smoke produces fine particulate matter, the > most dangerous element of air pollution. According to the new study, > levels indoors can far exceed those outdoors because new engine > models and lead-free fuels have cut the levels of particulate matter > emissions from car exhausts. > The study was conducted in a garage in a small, Italian mountain > town where there are very low levels of particulate matter air > pollution. A turbo diesel engine was left idling for 30 minutes in > the garage with the doors closed. Then, the doors were left open for > four hours. The car was fueled with low sulphur fuel. Three filter > cigarettes were also lit up sequentially, and left smoldering for > another 30 minutes. > Results of the experiment show the diesel engine exhaust doubled the > particulate matter levels found outdoors at its peak. > The environmental tobacco smoke particulate matter reached levels > 15-times higher than those measured outdoors. > This article was reported by Ivanhoe.com, who offers Medical Alerts > by e-mail every day of the week. To subscribe, go to: > http://www.ivanhoe.com/newsalert/. > SOURCE: Tobacco Control, 2004;13:219-221 > "The study was conducted in a garage in a small, Italian mountain > town" > Another unbiased report brought to you by Tobacco Control. > Now I got a tell ya., I don’t smoke, but these so called reports > brought to you by Tobacco Control and a bunch more are so > obvious that it makes one laugh.

The ‘report’ makes a great spoon to stir the soup. Some tasted it!  LOL —    ~Philip.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I think it’s a lot like other addictions, such as food – some people > haven’t > been able to lose weight by any methods, which is tougher because you > don’t > need cigarettes to survive (just the opposite, of course), but you need > food > to live.  I saw a lady on a documentary who had dropped well over 200 > pounds. > She began to go insane; not from temptation, but because her body reacted > as > though it were starving!  She became psychotic and very ill.  She ended up > gaining the weight back, and in doing so, regained her sanity.  Isn’t that > nuts?!  For smokers, they see others lighting up, which is even more > powerful > than an obese person walking by a restaurant and resisting the temptation > to > chow down.  Personally, I usually was slightly overweight, but not > morbidly > so.  Then my blood pressure went up, which woke me up to the reality that > my > heart was being affected.  I decided I’d rather not be a sick old lady > some > day (I’m now 46), so I had to drop the weight and get in shape.  I > exercise > no less than 30 minutes every single day, and have never regretted it. > On cold days I walk at our mall.  I spoke with a lady one morning who > has diabetes.  She told me that she started a vigorous walking regime > some time ago and after a while she was able to shed ALL of her > medications.  One more reason for exercise.

Amen! Natalie

Response:

> I often wonder why there is even a mention of making marijuana legal, >while in the same breath they try to eliminate cigarette smoking.  Seems >to me they are both bad for health. > Yeah, but when you’re as desperate as my friend Mick – who has been > known to snort a line of salt from the edge of the bar – then a joint > is not such a bad thing. > — > Dan Drake

Gawd, that reminds me of that scene from Cheech and Chong’s ‘Up In Smoke’ when that whacked-out chick snorted cleaning powder (I think it was Ajax cleanser). Natalie

Response:

> I often wonder why there is even a mention of making marijuana legal, >while in the same breath they try to eliminate cigarette smoking.  Seems >to me they are both bad for health.

Yeah, but when you’re as desperate as my friend Mick – who has been known to snort a line of salt from the edge of the bar – then a joint is not such a bad thing. — Dan Drake

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I used to think smokers who couldn’t quit were just copping out.  That was > until I worked in an OB/Gyn clinic!  Those women would be terrified that > their babies would be affected, but were able to eat right, exercise, and > everything we told them they needed to do, but often could *not* stop > smoking.  It was then that I realized what a powerful addiction cigarette > smoking is – wow! > Natalie > I often wonder why there is even a mention of making marijuana legal, > while in the same breath they try to eliminate cigarette smoking.  Seems > to me they are both bad for health.

They are, but like so many things, money is a factor.  Most people can’t or wouldn’t grow their own tobacco, but they’d certainly grow their own weed. The government would have a very hard time taxing and overseeing such a plant. > I had a chance to sit in a 04 Camry today.  It’s a really nice > automobile. > —

How dare you talk about cars!  What do you think these are, car newsgroups?! Oh yeah. Natalie

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> Let me light up a cigarette before I read the article. >> The sad part is that smokers (myself included) KNOW that cigarettes have >> very dire consequences on ones health. Creating yet another study proving >> that won’t help. Educating adolescents is the only solution to smoking, >> because they are the most vulnerable to peer pressure and other >> influences. >> That seems to be the reason behind this study, and I hope it works, >> because >> not starting to smoke is so much easier than trying to quit. >> I think I tried 10 times to quit, including cold turkey, the patch and >> the >> chewing gum and nothing worked. The only thing I found reduced the number >> of cigarettes I smoked was keeping myself busy. My record was 3 >> cigarettes >> in one day, and that was because I had to completely reassemble my old >> Yamaha RZ350 before a trip (I had the engine, carbs, front end, swing arm >> and brakes rebuilt, and needed to put everything back together). >> Cosmin >I used to think smokers who couldn’t quit were just copping out.  That was >until I worked in an OB/Gyn clinic!  Those women would be terrified that >their babies would be affected, but were able to eat right, exercise, and >everything we told them they needed to do, but often could *not* stop >smoking.  It was then that I realized what a powerful addiction cigarette >smoking is – wow! >Natalie > Sorry to hear that.  I tried filters, patches, training programs, but > none worked for me.  One day, it came down to that I couldn’t afford > college for my wife, and my 3 pack/day habit.  I said I had to quit > and I did.  I promised myself I would start back up when I could > afford it, but that was 10+ years ago.  Now with a mortgage and a > child, I"m guessing I’ll have to remain smoke-free, but I do enjoy the > smell now and then. > Everyone who says they can’t just doesn’t want to. > imho,

I think it’s a lot like other addictions, such as food – some people haven’t been able to lose weight by any methods, which is tougher because you don’t need cigarettes to survive (just the opposite, of course), but you need food to live.  I saw a lady on a documentary who had dropped well over 200 pounds. She began to go insane; not from temptation, but because her body reacted as though it were starving!  She became psychotic and very ill.  She ended up gaining the weight back, and in doing so, regained her sanity.  Isn’t that nuts?!  For smokers, they see others lighting up, which is even more powerful than an obese person walking by a restaurant and resisting the temptation to chow down.  Personally, I usually was slightly overweight, but not morbidly so.  Then my blood pressure went up, which woke me up to the reality that my heart was being affected.  I decided I’d rather not be a sick old lady some day (I’m now 46), so I had to drop the weight and get in shape.  I exercise no less than 30 minutes every single day, and have never regretted it. By the way, the bargain that you made for your body should be reneged. Please believe me when I say you’ll be so much more healthy without cigarettes.  What people don’t realize is that while lung cancer is relatively rare (I’ve only seen a handful of cases in 28 years), smoking does a lot of damage in other ways, such as COPD (emphysema – folks on home oxygen because their lungs have shriveled and hardened to the point of no elasticity), not to mention heart attacks and strokes.  Plus they’re very expensive!  My mother-in-law, a Nazi death camp survivor smokes (I can’t say I blame her after what she went through), and while we lived in New Hampshire (She lives in Massachusetts) she’d ask if I’d buy her cigarettes either in NH (They’re quite a bit cheaper there) or at Westover AFB in Chicopee, MA.  I told her that while I know she won’t stop smoking because I refuse to buy them for her, I could not in good conscience do that for her, because that would be like handing a syringe to a heroin addict.  I can’t be a party to her slow suicide.  My husband used to get them for her, and I didn’t chastise him for it, because I knew he just wanted to do what he can to help his mom be content.  I just couldn’t do it myself, and she (thankfully) understands that.  But she’s so awesome anyway, she’d naturally not cop an attitude.  The woman’s incredible, and I wish she could stop so we could have her on this planet longer. Natalie, former food junkie – or is that junk-food junkie?

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Let me light up a cigarette before I read the article. > The sad part is that smokers (myself included) KNOW that cigarettes have > very dire consequences on ones health. Creating yet another study proving > that won’t help. Educating adolescents is the only solution to smoking, > because they are the most vulnerable to peer pressure and other influences. > That seems to be the reason behind this study, and I hope it works, because > not starting to smoke is so much easier than trying to quit. > I think I tried 10 times to quit, including cold turkey, the patch and the > chewing gum and nothing worked. The only thing I found reduced the number > of cigarettes I smoked was keeping myself busy. My record was 3 cigarettes > in one day, and that was because I had to completely reassemble my old > Yamaha RZ350 before a trip (I had the engine, carbs, front end, swing arm > and brakes rebuilt, and needed to put everything back together). > Cosmin >I used to think smokers who couldn’t quit were just copping out.  That was >until I worked in an OB/Gyn clinic!  Those women would be terrified that >their babies would be affected, but were able to eat right, exercise, and >everything we told them they needed to do, but often could *not* stop >smoking.  It was then that I realized what a powerful addiction cigarette >smoking is – wow! >Natalie

Sorry to hear that.  I tried filters, patches, training programs, but none worked for me.  One day, it came down to that I couldn’t afford college for my wife, and my 3 pack/day habit.  I said I had to quit and I did.  I promised myself I would start back up when I could afford it, but that was 10+ years ago.  Now with a mortgage and a child, I"m guessing I’ll have to remain smoke-free, but I do enjoy the smell now and then. Everyone who says they can’t just doesn’t want to.   imho, – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> Cigarettes Worse for Air Than Cars >> Ivanhoe Newswire >> www.ivanhoe.com >> September 1, 2004 >> Holy smoke! The air pollution emitted by cigarettes may be 10-times >> greater than diesel car exhaust. >> Investigators hope the negative comparison can be a valuable educational >> message against tobacco use for adolescents. >> Environmental tobacco smoke produces fine particulate matter, the most >> dangerous element of air pollution. According to the new study, levels >> indoors can far exceed those outdoors because new engine models and >> lead-free fuels have cut the levels of particulate matter emissions from >> car exhausts. >> The study was conducted in a garage in a small, Italian mountain town >> where there are very low levels of particulate matter air pollution. A >> turbo diesel engine was left idling for 30 minutes in the garage with the >> doors closed. Then, the doors were left open for four hours. The car was >> fueled with low sulphur fuel. Three filter cigarettes were also lit up >> sequentially, and left smoldering for another 30 minutes. >> Results of the experiment show the diesel engine exhaust doubled the >> particulate matter levels found outdoors at its peak. >> The environmental tobacco smoke particulate matter reached levels 15-times >> higher than those measured outdoors. >> This article was reported by Ivanhoe.com, who offers Medical Alerts by >> e-mail every day of the week. To subscribe, go to: >> http://www.ivanhoe.com/newsalert/. >> SOURCE: Tobacco Control, 2004;13:219-221

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>Cigarettes Worse for Air Than Cars >>Ivanhoe Newswire >>www.ivanhoe.com >>September 1, 2004 >>Holy smoke! The air pollution emitted by cigarettes may be 10-times >>greater than diesel car exhaust. >>Investigators hope the negative comparison can be a valuable educational >>message against tobacco use for adolescents. >>Environmental tobacco smoke produces fine particulate matter, the most >>dangerous element of air pollution. According to the new study, levels >>indoors can far exceed those outdoors because new engine models and >>lead-free fuels have cut the levels of particulate matter emissions from >>car exhausts. >>The study was conducted in a garage in a small, Italian mountain town >>where there are very low levels of particulate matter air pollution. A >>turbo diesel engine was left idling for 30 minutes in the garage with the >>doors closed. Then, the doors were left open for four hours. The car was >>fueled with low sulphur fuel. Three filter cigarettes were also lit up >>sequentially, and left smoldering for another 30 minutes. >>Results of the experiment show the diesel engine exhaust doubled the >>particulate matter levels found outdoors at its peak. >>The environmental tobacco smoke particulate matter reached levels 15-times >>higher than those measured outdoors. >>This article was reported by Ivanhoe.com, who offers Medical Alerts by >>e-mail every day of the week. To subscribe, go to: >>http://www.ivanhoe.com/newsalert/. >>SOURCE: Tobacco Control, 2004;13:219-221 > "The study was conducted in a garage in a small, Italian mountain town" > Another unbiased report brought to you by Tobacco Control. > Now I got a tell ya., I don’t smoke, but these so called reports brought > to you by Tobacco Control and a bunch more are so obvious that it makes > one laugh. > Coming up next… > Terrorism, wars, whacko jacko, the Bush’er, the folks > at Enron, and Martha Stewart… ALL caused by tobacco.

ROFL! Natalie, never-a-smoker

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Let me light up a cigarette before I read the article. > The sad part is that smokers (myself included) KNOW that cigarettes have > very dire consequences on ones health. Creating yet another study proving > that won’t help. Educating adolescents is the only solution to smoking, > because they are the most vulnerable to peer pressure and other influences. > That seems to be the reason behind this study, and I hope it works, because > not starting to smoke is so much easier than trying to quit. > I think I tried 10 times to quit, including cold turkey, the patch and the > chewing gum and nothing worked. The only thing I found reduced the number > of cigarettes I smoked was keeping myself busy. My record was 3 cigarettes > in one day, and that was because I had to completely reassemble my old > Yamaha RZ350 before a trip (I had the engine, carbs, front end, swing arm > and brakes rebuilt, and needed to put everything back together). > Cosmin

I used to think smokers who couldn’t quit were just copping out.  That was until I worked in an OB/Gyn clinic!  Those women would be terrified that their babies would be affected, but were able to eat right, exercise, and everything we told them they needed to do, but often could *not* stop smoking.  It was then that I realized what a powerful addiction cigarette smoking is – wow! Natalie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Cigarettes Worse for Air Than Cars > Ivanhoe Newswire > www.ivanhoe.com > September 1, 2004 > Holy smoke! The air pollution emitted by cigarettes may be 10-times > greater than diesel car exhaust. > Investigators hope the negative comparison can be a valuable educational > message against tobacco use for adolescents. > Environmental tobacco smoke produces fine particulate matter, the most > dangerous element of air pollution. According to the new study, levels > indoors can far exceed those outdoors because new engine models and > lead-free fuels have cut the levels of particulate matter emissions from > car exhausts. > The study was conducted in a garage in a small, Italian mountain town > where there are very low levels of particulate matter air pollution. A > turbo diesel engine was left idling for 30 minutes in the garage with the > doors closed. Then, the doors were left open for four hours. The car was > fueled with low sulphur fuel. Three filter cigarettes were also lit up > sequentially, and left smoldering for another 30 minutes. > Results of the experiment show the diesel engine exhaust doubled the > particulate matter levels found outdoors at its peak. > The environmental tobacco smoke particulate matter reached levels 15-times > higher than those measured outdoors. > This article was reported by Ivanhoe.com, who offers Medical Alerts by > e-mail every day of the week. To subscribe, go to: > http://www.ivanhoe.com/newsalert/. > SOURCE: Tobacco Control, 2004;13:219-221

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Cigarettes Worse for Air Than Cars >Ivanhoe Newswire >www.ivanhoe.com >September 1, 2004 >Holy smoke! The air pollution emitted by cigarettes may be 10-times greater >than diesel car exhaust. >Investigators hope the negative comparison can be a valuable educational >message against tobacco use for adolescents. >Environmental tobacco smoke produces fine particulate matter, the most >dangerous element of air pollution. According to the new study, levels >indoors can far exceed those outdoors because new engine models and >lead-free fuels have cut the levels of particulate matter emissions from car >exhausts. >The study was conducted in a garage in a small, Italian mountain town where >there are very low levels of particulate matter air pollution. A turbo >diesel engine was left idling for 30 minutes in the garage with the doors >closed. Then, the doors were left open for four hours. The car was fueled >with low sulphur fuel. Three filter cigarettes were also lit up >sequentially, and left smoldering for another 30 minutes. >Results of the experiment show the diesel engine exhaust doubled the >particulate matter levels found outdoors at its peak. >The environmental tobacco smoke particulate matter reached levels 15-times >higher than those measured outdoors. >This article was reported by Ivanhoe.com, who offers Medical Alerts by >e-mail every day of the week. To subscribe, go to: >http://www.ivanhoe.com/newsalert/. >SOURCE: Tobacco Control, 2004;13:219-221 > "The study was conducted in a garage in a small, Italian mountain town" > Another unbiased report brought to you by Tobacco Control. > Now I got a tell ya., I don’t smoke, but these so called reports brought > to you by Tobacco Control and a bunch more are so obvious that it makes > one laugh.

Coming up next… Terrorism, wars, whacko jacko, the Bush’er, the folks at Enron, and Martha Stewart… ALL caused by tobacco.

Response:

Hope peer pressure does not lead to teenage girls leaving lipstick marks on the exhaust pipe of their VW Cabriolet TDI’s. —    ~Philip. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Let me light up a cigarette before I read the article. > The sad part is that smokers (myself included) KNOW that cigarettes > have very dire consequences on ones health. Creating yet another study > proving that won’t help. Educating adolescents is the only solution to > smoking, because they are the most vulnerable to peer pressure and > other influences. That seems to be the reason behind this study, and > I hope it works, because not starting to smoke is so much easier than > trying to quit. > I think I tried 10 times to quit, including cold turkey, the patch and > the chewing gum and nothing worked. The only thing I found reduced the > number of cigarettes I smoked was keeping myself busy. My record was 3 > cigarettes in one day, and that was because I had to completely > reassemble my old Yamaha RZ350 before a trip (I had the engine, carbs, > front end, swing arm and brakes rebuilt, and needed to put everything > back together). > Cosmin > Cigarettes Worse for Air Than Cars > Ivanhoe Newswire > www.ivanhoe.com > September 1, 2004 > Holy smoke! The air pollution emitted by cigarettes may be 10-times > greater than diesel car exhaust. > Investigators hope the negative comparison can be a valuable > educational message against tobacco use for adolescents. > Environmental tobacco smoke produces fine particulate matter, the > most dangerous element of air pollution. According to the new study, > levels indoors can far exceed those outdoors because new engine > models and lead-free fuels have cut the levels of particulate matter > emissions from car exhausts. > The study was conducted in a garage in a small, Italian mountain > town where there are very low levels of particulate matter air > pollution. A turbo diesel engine was left idling for 30 minutes in > the garage with the doors closed. Then, the doors were left open for > four hours. The car was fueled with low sulphur fuel. Three filter > cigarettes were also lit up sequentially, and left smoldering for > another 30 minutes. Results of the experiment show the diesel engine > exhaust doubled the > particulate matter levels found outdoors at its peak. > The environmental tobacco smoke particulate matter reached levels > 15-times higher than those measured outdoors. > This article was reported by Ivanhoe.com, who offers Medical Alerts > by e-mail every day of the week. To subscribe, go to: > http://www.ivanhoe.com/newsalert/. > SOURCE: Tobacco Control, 2004;13:219-221

Response:

Let me light up a cigarette before I read the article. The sad part is that smokers (myself included) KNOW that cigarettes have very dire consequences on ones health. Creating yet another study proving that won’t help. Educating adolescents is the only solution to smoking, because they are the most vulnerable to peer pressure and other influences. That seems to be the reason behind this study, and I hope it works, because not starting to smoke is so much easier than trying to quit. I think I tried 10 times to quit, including cold turkey, the patch and the chewing gum and nothing worked. The only thing I found reduced the number of cigarettes I smoked was keeping myself busy. My record was 3 cigarettes in one day, and that was because I had to completely reassemble my old Yamaha RZ350 before a trip (I had the engine, carbs, front end, swing arm and brakes rebuilt, and needed to put everything back together). Cosmin – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Cigarettes Worse for Air Than Cars > Ivanhoe Newswire > www.ivanhoe.com > September 1, 2004 > Holy smoke! The air pollution emitted by cigarettes may be 10-times greater > than diesel car exhaust. > Investigators hope the negative comparison can be a valuable educational > message against tobacco use for adolescents. > Environmental tobacco smoke produces fine particulate matter, the most > dangerous element of air pollution. According to the new study, levels > indoors can far exceed those outdoors because new engine models and > lead-free fuels have cut the levels of particulate matter emissions from car > exhausts. > The study was conducted in a garage in a small, Italian mountain town where > there are very low levels of particulate matter air pollution. A turbo > diesel engine was left idling for 30 minutes in the garage with the doors > closed. Then, the doors were left open for four hours. The car was fueled > with low sulphur fuel. Three filter cigarettes were also lit up > sequentially, and left smoldering for another 30 minutes. > Results of the experiment show the diesel engine exhaust doubled the > particulate matter levels found outdoors at its peak. > The environmental tobacco smoke particulate matter reached levels 15-times > higher than those measured outdoors. > This article was reported by Ivanhoe.com, who offers Medical Alerts by > e-mail every day of the week. To subscribe, go to: > http://www.ivanhoe.com/newsalert/. > SOURCE: Tobacco Control, 2004;13:219-221

Response:

Cigarettes Worse for Air Than Cars Ivanhoe Newswire www.ivanhoe.com September 1, 2004 Holy smoke! The air pollution emitted by cigarettes may be 10-times greater than diesel car exhaust. Investigators hope the negative comparison can be a valuable educational message against tobacco use for adolescents. Environmental tobacco smoke produces fine particulate matter, the most dangerous element of air pollution. According to the new study, levels indoors can far exceed those outdoors because new engine models and lead-free fuels have cut the levels of particulate matter emissions from car exhausts. The study was conducted in a garage in a small, Italian mountain town where there are very low levels of particulate matter air pollution. A turbo diesel engine was left idling for 30 minutes in the garage with the doors closed. Then, the doors were left open for four hours. The car was fueled with low sulphur fuel. Three filter cigarettes were also lit up sequentially, and left smoldering for another 30 minutes. Results of the experiment show the diesel engine exhaust doubled the particulate matter levels found outdoors at its peak. The environmental tobacco smoke particulate matter reached levels 15-times higher than those measured outdoors. This article was reported by Ivanhoe.com, who offers Medical Alerts by e-mail every day of the week. To subscribe, go to: http://www.ivanhoe.com/newsalert/. SOURCE: Tobacco Control, 2004;13:219-221

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > > I will look into a local seminar for more info.  Do you have any > > > recommendations for the right surgeon in the Seattle area? > > Yes, very definitely as a matter of fact.  A colleague and good friend of > > mine, Dr. Peter S. Billing,  just moved to the Seattle area within the last > > few weeks – Edmonds, Washington, I believe. He was a medical student of mine > > years ago, trained in Surgery at the Mayo Clinic, and my partner and I did > > virtually all of his training in laparoendoscopic surgery. I have worked > > with him many, many times and he is an excellent surgeon. He is very skilled > > at laparoscopic roux-en-Y gastric bypass and Lap Band and is in the process > > of setting up his new practice there with Dr. Rob Landerholm. I can’t > > recommend him highly enough. He is also extremely knowledgeable about GERD, > > and is highly experienced at lapaorscopic fundoplication. > > HMc > Thank you again, you have been very helpful.  I will contact him. > Will my lungs get better after surgery or just stabilize where they are now? > I have COPD and lately have been really producing gobs and gobs of gunk. > I’ve been doing BID or TID nebs. > I just was at 5500 ft elevation and felt like someone was sitting on my > chest the whole time. I grew up at that altitude and indeed spent several > years at 8500 ft. elevation, but know now that the "lack" of oxygen in the > air really does effect people and I’m not immune to it. > I’m currently gathering chart notes and test results to go see your > colleague here in Edmonds.  I’ve been doing this for so long now that some > of the tests are old.  I hope he doesn’t need to do them again.  Each test > just kept pointing me toward surgery anyway and it’s pretty obvious I > haven’t gotten better.

Hard to know if anti-reflux surgery will help your COPD without knowing the cause of it. But there is most definitely a link between GERD and COPD and it would not be unreasonable to expect some improvement in those symtoms. Also, be aware that many of the drugs used in the management of COPD can exacerbate GERD, including beta-agonist nebs. HMc

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > I will look into a local seminar for more info.  Do you have any > > recommendations for the right surgeon in the Seattle area? > Yes, very definitely as a matter of fact.  A colleague and good friend of > mine, Dr. Peter S. Billing,  just moved to the Seattle area within the last > few weeks – Edmonds, Washington, I believe. He was a medical student of mine > years ago, trained in Surgery at the Mayo Clinic, and my partner and I did > virtually all of his training in laparoendoscopic surgery. I have worked > with him many, many times and he is an excellent surgeon. He is very skilled > at laparoscopic roux-en-Y gastric bypass and Lap Band and is in the process > of setting up his new practice there with Dr. Rob Landerholm. I can’t > recommend him highly enough. He is also extremely knowledgeable about GERD, > and is highly experienced at lapaorscopic fundoplication. > HMc > Thank you again, you have been very helpful.  I will contact him.

Will my lungs get better after surgery or just stabilize where they are now? I have COPD and lately have been really producing gobs and gobs of gunk. I’ve been doing BID or TID nebs. I just was at 5500 ft elevation and felt like someone was sitting on my chest the whole time. I grew up at that altitude and indeed spent several years at 8500 ft. elevation, but know now that the "lack" of oxygen in the air really does effect people and I’m not immune to it. I’m currently gathering chart notes and test results to go see your colleague here in Edmonds.  I’ve been doing this for so long now that some of the tests are old.  I hope he doesn’t need to do them again.  Each test just kept pointing me toward surgery anyway and it’s pretty obvious I haven’t gotten better. Brenda Cole

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I will look into a local seminar for more info.  Do you have any > recommendations for the right surgeon in the Seattle area? > Yes, very definitely as a matter of fact.  A colleague and good friend of > mine, Dr. Peter S. Billing,  just moved to the Seattle area within the last > few weeks – Edmonds, Washington, I believe. He was a medical student of mine > years ago, trained in Surgery at the Mayo Clinic, and my partner and I did > virtually all of his training in laparoendoscopic surgery. I have worked > with him many, many times and he is an excellent surgeon. He is very skilled > at laparoscopic roux-en-Y gastric bypass and Lap Band and is in the process > of setting up his new practice there with Dr. Rob Landerholm. I can’t > recommend him highly enough. He is also extremely knowledgeable about GERD, > and is highly experienced at lapaorscopic fundoplication. > HMc

Thank you again, you have been very helpful.  I will contact him.

Response:

> I will look into a local seminar for more info.  Do you have any > recommendations for the right surgeon in the Seattle area?

Yes, very definitely as a matter of fact.  A colleague and good friend of mine, Dr. Peter S. Billing,  just moved to the Seattle area within the last few weeks – Edmonds, Washington, I believe. He was a medical student of mine years ago, trained in Surgery at the Mayo Clinic, and my partner and I did virtually all of his training in laparoendoscopic surgery. I have worked with him many, many times and he is an excellent surgeon. He is very skilled at laparoscopic roux-en-Y gastric bypass and Lap Band and is in the process of setting up his new practice there with Dr. Rob Landerholm. I can’t recommend him highly enough. He is also extremely knowledgeable about GERD, and is highly experienced at lapaorscopic fundoplication. HMc

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > Thanks for the info.  From what I gather the fundoplication is > > probably my best bet, but if it doesn’t work then at that point the > > gastric bypass is out of the question. If I truely want to keep the > > acid out of my lungs I should probably have the bypass, but all that > > goes with that is pretty scarey. Which is the worse of the two evils? > > I guess it’s time to return to the surgeon. > Laparoscopic roux-en-y gastric bypass is certainly feasible in the face of >  a > previous fundoplication (Lap Band probably isn’t). It may be more >  difficult > to find a surgeon skilled or experienced in laparoscopic re-operative > gastroesophageal surgery, but it is absolutely not out of the question. > I should add, however, that your assertion is on the right track. I would > advise a patient with severe GERD and a BMI of 34 to consider bariatric > surgery. It is worth investigating further, especially if you have > co-morbidities other than severe GERD and are committed to the concepts > attendant on bariatric surgery . You should consider complete investigation > of the laparoscopic roux-en-y gastric bypass, and/or Lap Band, including > attending your local bariatric surgeons’ informational seminar and a > bariatric surgery support group. Surgical weight loss represents a major > lifestyle committment and you need to make sure that you understand it > perfectly, especially if the primary reason you are doing it is for > alleviation of GERD. > HMc

I will look into a local seminar for more info.  Do you have any recommendations for the right surgeon in the Seattle area? I realize that the bypass surgery is a huge commitment and because I’d be doing it primarily for alleviation of GERD instead of weight loss it makes the decision much harder.  With the constant bombarding of acid into my respiratory system I’m losing ground to even be able to stay active.  The resulting EIB from the irritation.  My lifestyle has already changed.  I can’t even have a good laugh without going into coughing fits that end up with refluxing, gagging and vomiting. I don’t suffer from any other co-morbidities (yet).  Although my blood pressure is higher now than it ever has been, but still within the "norm", albeit the high norm. So I may not even qualify for the gastric bypass surgery. Everytime I decide it is time to gather information about the surgeries, I get depressed and put my head back into the sand until the next go round.  I don’t know how many more times I can do this. My PCP just looks at me and shakes her head and reminds me I need to have surgery, fortunately she still refills my meds.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Thanks for the info.  From what I gather the fundoplication is > probably my best bet, but if it doesn’t work then at that point the > gastric bypass is out of the question. If I truely want to keep the > acid out of my lungs I should probably have the bypass, but all that > goes with that is pretty scarey. Which is the worse of the two evils? > I guess it’s time to return to the surgeon. > Laparoscopic roux-en-y gastric bypass is certainly feasible in the face of a > previous fundoplication (Lap Band probably isn’t). It may be more difficult > to find a surgeon skilled or experienced in laparoscopic re-operative > gastroesophageal surgery, but it is absolutely not out of the question.

I should add, however, that your assertion is on the right track. I would advise a patient with severe GERD and a BMI of 34 to consider bariatric surgery. It is worth investigating further, especially if you have co-morbidities other than severe GERD and are committed to the concepts attendant on bariatric surgery . You should consider complete investigation of the laparoscopic roux-en-y gastric bypass, and/or Lap Band, including attending your local bariatric surgeons’ informational seminar and a bariatric surgery support group. Surgical weight loss represents a major lifestyle committment and you need to make sure that you understand it perfectly, especially if the primary reason you are doing it is for alleviation of GERD. HMc

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> Thanks for the info.  From what I gather the fundoplication is > probably my best bet, but if it doesn’t work then at that point the > gastric bypass is out of the question. If I truely want to keep the > acid out of my lungs I should probably have the bypass, but all that > goes with that is pretty scarey. Which is the worse of the two evils? > I guess it’s time to return to the surgeon.

Laparoscopic roux-en-y gastric bypass is certainly feasible in the face of a previous fundoplication (Lap Band probably isn’t). It may be more difficult to find a surgeon skilled or experienced in laparoscopic re-operative gastroesophageal surgery, but it is absolutely not out of the question. HMc

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> How does the surgeon and the insurance look at a situation like mine > where I wouldn’t be a good candidate for the Stretta (?) or possibly > even the fundo (previous abdominal surgeries > {chole,hyst,appendectomy}), I’m obese, but not morbidly (should I gain > more weight?), but I’m failing all meds and I’m physically exhausted > from coughing and refluxing.  I’m taking more drugs to combat the > cough, headaches from coughing (sometimes I feel like a vessel is > going to blow in my brain), but the meds (Vicodan and Vicodan syrup) > make me "hung over" and drugged. The PPI’s make me crampy and > nauseated and I’m overall irritated and grumpy.  I also have sleep > apnea, ? assocatied with GERD ?, I’d say I’m a bit of a mess wouldn’t > you? > Maybe the gastric bypass is my only option to get rid of the stomach > acid altogether. All I know is that I’m feeling like I’m at the end of > my rope.

I would be concerned about the efficacy of Stretta in someone who has such a patulous LES. Likewise, Enteryx (biopolymer inserted into the LES) has limits in such a situation. Also, note that both Stretta and Enteryx are considered "investigational" by many, many insurance companies, and not covered. As an anti-reflux operation, gastric fundoplication is likely to be your best bet, even at a BMI of 34. Your insurance company is unlikely to have a problem with fundoplication. I will say the roux-en-y gastric bypass is *very* effective at controlling GERD. However, be aware that this is a big operation with a relatively high mortality rate and significant lifestyle implications post-op. Insurance companies that cover bariatric surgery will do so at a BMI of 35 or greater if co-morbidities are documented. GERD is definitely one of those co-morbidities. Others would include hypertension, high cholesterol, hyperlipidemia, diabetes, degenerative joint disease, just to name a few. HMc

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> How does the surgeon and the insurance look at a situation like mine > where I wouldn’t be a good candidate for the Stretta (?) or possibly > even the fundo (previous abdominal surgeries > {chole,hyst,appendectomy}), I’m obese, but not morbidly (should I gain > more weight?), but I’m failing all meds and I’m physically exhausted > from coughing and refluxing.  I’m taking more drugs to combat the > cough, headaches from coughing (sometimes I feel like a vessel is > going to blow in my brain), but the meds (Vicodan and Vicodan syrup) > make me "hung over" and drugged. The PPI’s make me crampy and > nauseated and I’m overall irritated and grumpy.  I also have sleep > apnea, ? assocatied with GERD ?, I’d say I’m a bit of a mess wouldn’t > you? > Maybe the gastric bypass is my only option to get rid of the stomach > acid altogether. All I know is that I’m feeling like I’m at the end of > my rope. > I would be concerned about the efficacy of Stretta in someone who has such a > patulous LES. Likewise, Enteryx (biopolymer inserted into the LES) has > limits in such a situation. Also, note that both Stretta and Enteryx are > considered "investigational" by many, many insurance companies, and not > covered. As an anti-reflux operation, gastric fundoplication is likely to be > your best bet, even at a BMI of 34. Your insurance company is unlikely to > have a problem with fundoplication. > I will say the roux-en-y gastric bypass is *very* effective at controlling > GERD. However, be aware that this is a big operation with a relatively high > mortality rate and significant lifestyle implications post-op. Insurance > companies that cover bariatric surgery will do so at a BMI of 35 or greater > if co-morbidities are documented. GERD is definitely one of those > co-morbidities. Others would include hypertension, high cholesterol, > hyperlipidemia, diabetes, degenerative joint disease, just to name a few. > HMc

Thanks for the info.  From what I gather the fundoplication is probably my best bet, but if it doesn’t work then at that point the gastric bypass is out of the question. If I truely want to keep the acid out of my lungs I should probably have the bypass, but all that goes with that is pretty scarey. Which is the worse of the two evils? I guess it’s time to return to the surgeon.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > What is your body mass index (BMI)? > > Look at http://nhlbisupport.com/bmi/bmicalc.htm to calculate your BMI. > > HMc > 34 > Your obesity is certainly playing a role in your GERD, however you are not > morbidly obese as defined by the NIH concensus conference 1991, which is the > definition virtually all insurance companies use in determining > precertification for bariatric surgery. Such bariatric surgery would most > likely have to be paid out of your pocket – tens of thousands of dollars. > Be aware that the success of the lap band in treating GERD comes from the > weight loss associated with that procedure, not from placement of the band > itself. The band goes around the upper part of the stomach, and does nothing > to affect the LES directly.  Until that weight loss occurs, GERD and > regurgitation will continue to be a problem. Gastric secretions from the > distal stomach can still reflux since the stomach is not excluded from the > esophagus. With the roux-en-y bypass, the distal stomach is excluded and the > vast majority of gastric secretions are routed well downstream – have no > opportunity to reflux. Furthermore, if chronic esophagitis is present and is > associated with shortening of the esophagus you would not be able to have > the Lap Band done. > Bottom line, Lap Band is not a great treatment for GERD when GERD is the > only disease being treated. > HMc

A few questions, the Stretta procedure is where tiny lesions are made so that scar tissue develops constricting the lower esophagus, correct? What is the procedure where a gelatinous product is placed in the lower esophagus? As I stated before, I was told that my LES showed no reading at all, so would I not be a candiate for the Stretta? How does the surgeon and the insurance look at a situation like mine where I wouldn’t be a good candidate for the Stretta (?) or possibly even the fundo (previous abdominal surgeries {chole,hyst,appendectomy}), I’m obese, but not morbidly (should I gain more weight?), but I’m failing all meds and I’m physically exhausted from coughing and refluxing.  I’m taking more drugs to combat the cough, headaches from coughing (sometimes I feel like a vessel is going to blow in my brain), but the meds (Vicodan and Vicodan syrup) make me "hung over" and drugged. The PPI’s make me crampy and nauseated and I’m overall irritated and grumpy.  I also have sleep apnea, ? assocatied with GERD ?, I’d say I’m a bit of a mess wouldn’t you? Maybe the gastric bypass is my only option to get rid of the stomach acid altogether. All I know is that I’m feeling like I’m at the end of my rope.

Response:

> What is your body mass index (BMI)? > Look at http://nhlbisupport.com/bmi/bmicalc.htm to calculate your BMI. > HMc > 34

Your obesity is certainly playing a role in your GERD, however you are not morbidly obese as defined by the NIH concensus conference 1991, which is the definition virtually all insurance companies use in determining precertification for bariatric surgery. Such bariatric surgery would most likely have to be paid out of your pocket – tens of thousands of dollars. Be aware that the success of the lap band in treating GERD comes from the weight loss associated with that procedure, not from placement of the band itself. The band goes around the upper part of the stomach, and does nothing to affect the LES directly.  Until that weight loss occurs, GERD and regurgitation will continue to be a problem. Gastric secretions from the distal stomach can still reflux since the stomach is not excluded from the esophagus. With the roux-en-y bypass, the distal stomach is excluded and the vast majority of gastric secretions are routed well downstream – have no opportunity to reflux. Furthermore, if chronic esophagitis is present and is associated with shortening of the esophagus you would not be able to have the Lap Band done. Bottom line, Lap Band is not a great treatment for GERD when GERD is the only disease being treated. HMc

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > My question is there is a procedure used for weight loss (lap band) > > that cinches off a portion of the stomach.  Why can’t this non > > permanent, reversible procedure be used to help refluxers?  My LES is > > practically non working.  Can’t this be used for this and if it > > doesn’t work, it can be removed.  Seems like even if it is in the > > usual placement (making a smaller stomach pouch) it would reduce acid > > from refluxing. > Lap Band is not approved by the FDA for use as an anti-reflux tool. Your > insurance company would never pay for the operation for that purpose. They > wouldn’t pay for a Lap Band under *any* circumstance unless you are morbidly > obese (BMI greater than 35 with severe GERD or other co-morbidities), and > some insurance companies won’t pay for Lap Band ever, period. > Morbidly obese patients very commonly suffer from GERD and bariatric surgery > is extremely effective in curing it. In fact, most surgeons (most smart > surgeons, anyway) won’t even do a gastric fundoplication on patients whose > BMI is greater than 35 because of the very high failure rate in that patient > population, and the fact that a fundoplication makes subsequent bariatric > surgery extremely difficult. > HMc > It is interesting that I had not heard before that and "smart" > surgeons wouldn’t do a gastric fundo on obese patients.  I’m obese, > could lose 40 to 50 pounds, but I think I’d opt for the lap-band, > because it is reversible and the weight loss will be a side effect.  I > know the insurance won’t cover it. But having had several major > surgeries already and having first hand experience with "after > effects", I’m willing to pay the $$ and take the chance to have a > reversible, fixable surgery.  Do you think I’m heading down the wrong > avenue?

What is your body mass index (BMI)? Look at http://nhlbisupport.com/bmi/bmicalc.htm to calculate your BMI. HMc

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > > My question is there is a procedure used for weight loss (lap band) > > > that cinches off a portion of the stomach.  Why can’t this non > > > permanent, reversible procedure be used to help refluxers?  My LES is > > > practically non working.  Can’t this be used for this and if it > > > doesn’t work, it can be removed.  Seems like even if it is in the > > > usual placement (making a smaller stomach pouch) it would reduce acid > > > from refluxing. > > Lap Band is not approved by the FDA for use as an anti-reflux tool. Your > > insurance company would never pay for the operation for that purpose. >  They > > wouldn’t pay for a Lap Band under *any* circumstance unless you are >  morbidly > > obese (BMI greater than 35 with severe GERD or other co-morbidities), >  and > > some insurance companies won’t pay for Lap Band ever, period. > > Morbidly obese patients very commonly suffer from GERD and bariatric >  surgery > > is extremely effective in curing it. In fact, most surgeons (most smart > > surgeons, anyway) won’t even do a gastric fundoplication on patients >  whose > > BMI is greater than 35 because of the very high failure rate in that >  patient > > population, and the fact that a fundoplication makes subsequent >  bariatric > > surgery extremely difficult. > > HMc > It is interesting that I had not heard before that and "smart" > surgeons wouldn’t do a gastric fundo on obese patients.  I’m obese, > could lose 40 to 50 pounds, but I think I’d opt for the lap-band, > because it is reversible and the weight loss will be a side effect.  I > know the insurance won’t cover it. But having had several major > surgeries already and having first hand experience with "after > effects", I’m willing to pay the $$ and take the chance to have a > reversible, fixable surgery.  Do you think I’m heading down the wrong > avenue? > What is your body mass index (BMI)? > Look at http://nhlbisupport.com/bmi/bmicalc.htm to calculate your BMI. > HMc

34

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> My question is there is a procedure used for weight loss (lap band) > that cinches off a portion of the stomach.  Why can’t this non > permanent, reversible procedure be used to help refluxers?  My LES is > practically non working.  Can’t this be used for this and if it > doesn’t work, it can be removed.  Seems like even if it is in the > usual placement (making a smaller stomach pouch) it would reduce acid > from refluxing. > Lap Band is not approved by the FDA for use as an anti-reflux tool. Your > insurance company would never pay for the operation for that purpose. They > wouldn’t pay for a Lap Band under *any* circumstance unless you are morbidly > obese (BMI greater than 35 with severe GERD or other co-morbidities), and > some insurance companies won’t pay for Lap Band ever, period. > Morbidly obese patients very commonly suffer from GERD and bariatric surgery > is extremely effective in curing it. In fact, most surgeons (most smart > surgeons, anyway) won’t even do a gastric fundoplication on patients whose > BMI is greater than 35 because of the very high failure rate in that patient > population, and the fact that a fundoplication makes subsequent bariatric > surgery extremely difficult. > HMc

It is interesting that I had not heard before that and "smart" surgeons wouldn’t do a gastric fundo on obese patients.  I’m obese, could lose 40 to 50 pounds, but I think I’d opt for the lap-band, because it is reversible and the weight loss will be a side effect.  I know the insurance won’t cover it. But having had several major surgeries already and having first hand experience with "after effects", I’m willing to pay the $$ and take the chance to have a reversible, fixable surgery.  Do you think I’m heading down the wrong avenue?

Response:

> My question is there is a procedure used for weight loss (lap band) > that cinches off a portion of the stomach.  Why can’t this non > permanent, reversible procedure be used to help refluxers?  My LES is > practically non working.  Can’t this be used for this and if it > doesn’t work, it can be removed.  Seems like even if it is in the > usual placement (making a smaller stomach pouch) it would reduce acid > from refluxing.

Lap Band is not approved by the FDA for use as an anti-reflux tool. Your insurance company would never pay for the operation for that purpose. They wouldn’t pay for a Lap Band under *any* circumstance unless you are morbidly obese (BMI greater than 35 with severe GERD or other co-morbidities), and some insurance companies won’t pay for Lap Band ever, period. Morbidly obese patients very commonly suffer from GERD and bariatric surgery is extremely effective in curing it. In fact, most surgeons (most smart surgeons, anyway) won’t even do a gastric fundoplication on patients whose BMI is greater than 35 because of the very high failure rate in that patient population, and the fact that a fundoplication makes subsequent bariatric surgery extremely difficult. HMc

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I am a diagnosed GERD sufferer for 8+ years, I’m 43 yo female. I have > had the million dollar work up.  I have been on all the meds and > currently take Nexium 40mg BID. I still suffer from reflux and mostly > suffer with respiratory complications.  I realize that I only have one > set of lungs, that are currently not working at maximum, and that I > need to do something more about the reflux, surgically.  However, I’m > not convinced that it will solve my problem.  Even the surgeon could > not say that it would stop the coughing. > Getting any type of respiratory infection launches me into several > long months of recooperation, including Prednisone, inhalers and > medication changes. The Prednisone doesn’t work any longer. All of > these leaving me exhausted, side effected, ill and afraid of the next > infection that comes along. > My question is there is a procedure used for weight loss (lap band) > that cinches off a portion of the stomach.  Why can’t this non > permanent, reversible procedure be used to help refluxers?  My LES is > practically non working.  Can’t this be used for this and if it > doesn’t work, it can be removed.  Seems like even if it is in the > usual placement (making a smaller stomach pouch) it would reduce acid > from refluxing.  The other permanent surgical options do not appeal to > me, because if they don’t work (too tight, or too loose)you have just > created another set of problems. > Having just "recovered" from a pneumonia in February that led to the > above and now with a "cold" settling in my chest knowing full well > I’ll be coughing for months has left me depressed at dejected. I’m > really grasping here.  Any ideas out there?

Yes, you need a fundoplication or Stretta procedure. Your risks are much greater without an anti-reflux operation than they are with it. Such a reversible device was available 25 years ago. The principle is unsound, and it didn’t work. Look up "Angelchik prosthesis" in Google or http://tinyurl.com/43sdo HMc

Response:

I am a diagnosed GERD sufferer for 8+ years, I’m 43 yo female. I have had the million dollar work up.  I have been on all the meds and currently take Nexium 40mg BID. I still suffer from reflux and mostly suffer with respiratory complications.  I realize that I only have one set of lungs, that are currently not working at maximum, and that I need to do something more about the reflux, surgically.  However, I’m not convinced that it will solve my problem.  Even the surgeon could not say that it would stop the coughing. Getting any type of respiratory infection launches me into several long months of recooperation, including Prednisone, inhalers and medication changes. The Prednisone doesn’t work any longer. All of these leaving me exhausted, side effected, ill and afraid of the next infection that comes along. My question is there is a procedure used for weight loss (lap band) that cinches off a portion of the stomach.  Why can’t this non permanent, reversible procedure be used to help refluxers?  My LES is practically non working.  Can’t this be used for this and if it doesn’t work, it can be removed.  Seems like even if it is in the usual placement (making a smaller stomach pouch) it would reduce acid from refluxing.  The other permanent surgical options do not appeal to me, because if they don’t work (too tight, or too loose)you have just created another set of problems. Having just "recovered" from a pneumonia in February that led to the above and now with a "cold" settling in my chest knowing full well I’ll be coughing for months has left me depressed at dejected. I’m really grasping here.  Any ideas out there?

Response:

>No, it was kicking a scamming troll >As someone else pointed out, the name "Jack Frost" should have clued us >in right away.

Should have but the collective intelligence of this group  matches those of an ant.

Response:

>In the same way I have observed you are very fervent about >protecting people here from being deceived or misled.  That’s *your* >main goal.

Rosenberg is a liar and a cyberstalker and it is a terrible reflection on ASD when both of those activities are supported by ASD members.

Response:

>Thanks for the reply, Ted. >It all sounds fair enough. >I use very little sweetening myself. >Annette

That’s cause you don’t need any Cheers Alan, T2, Oz

Response:

>Thanks for the reply, Ted. >It all sounds fair enough. >I use very little sweetening myself. >Annette > That’s cause you don’t need any > Cheers Alan, T2, Oz

Eeeew, aren’t you the smoothie! Thank you for the nice little compliment, Alan.  Like most Ozzie women, I’m never quite sure if the bloke is taking the micky or not! BTW I had a look at your email provider tonight to see why you aren’t getting the spams and worm attacks in your mail, and if it would be worth opening an account with them. What they do, actually, is filter them for you, but AFTER they go onto your malbox.  You may even be getting flooded too, but would never know.  The problem with that system is that if your mailbox is full,  emails you DO want may be rejected.    You’d never know why. So don’t think you aren’t under attack, you just don’t know about it.  Sadly, it’s not quite what *I* am seeking. I want my mail totally filtered BEFORE it goes into my mailbox.  And for a reasonable cost.  Oh well. One interesting affect of the current activity is that it is forcing small organisations (that provide blacklists of the private ISP sources for spam, porn in particular), to close down. Spamcop is gone, and many others are following – they just can’t cope with the massive attacks they are getting.  It’s complicated, but it has a really sus. feel to me.  What next eh? Annette Honeymooners At Breakfast English: Pass the sugar, sugar. American: Pass the honey, honey. Australian: Pass the tea, bag! — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Sorry – meant SMTP servers miss a lot of the posts > So, I usually cc by email, so the recepiant will be sure to get it. > If I mail privately, I usually say so.  I never send attacks in private, > just in public, and cc’d, so the scammers can not say I set unsolicited > email, I only replied to THEIR post. > As for research, the amount of diabetes research going on in the US is > huge.  Much of it is paid for by drug companies, but much of it is > public, BUT to people who don’t understand how research funding works – > it can look smaller than it is > THEN there is the misuse of numbers – OF COURSE the amount spent per > person with a rare disease is greater than the amount spent PER PERSON > with a common disease. > He also made a number of simple errors in describing diabetes, and > assumed that T1’s can get off of meds with diet and exercise.  Now THAT > is in a class with our Bengali frauds. > I looked at all that, and merely shook my head, but when he kept quoting > Momma Betty, he quoted the part that a biochemist would NEVER quote.  If > he had stuck to the mysterious brain tumors (which no one has ever seen) > or some of the other more complicated lies, he might have just been a > patsy, but NO, he quoted the parts about "toxic formalin caused by > aspartame at room temperature"  That is so bad as to be almost FUNNY. > This from a BIOCHEMIST – give us a break. > Ken quoted some of the same bullcrap, but he > 1) Had been a reasonable poster with REAL questions and positions on things. > 2) did not claim to be a biochemist > Most people didn’t attack HIM, just point out that he was wrong. > AND, he is still here, still participating, and has stopped quoiting Betty. > I do not CARE if you use artificial sweeteners or not, as long as you > don’t push scare stories, or sell Stevia.   I don’[t even use much > sweeteners at all, artificial ort otherwise.  I didn’t put sugar in my > coffee before, so I didn’t need to replace the sugar with something. > Sometimes I drink diet soda, BUT, since I don’t crave sweets, it isn’t a > big deal for me.  Some people have a real craving for sweets, and > artificial sweetners are a necessity for them.

Thanks for the reply, Ted. It all sounds fair enough. I use very little sweetening myself. Annette — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

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I just take-in the GOOD , and forget the bad . Nothing is worth getting upset about much . tim

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Ted , that was kicking a person when their down in my view . Not very nice , maybe you are having a bad day…sorry . tim

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No, it was kicking a scamming troll As someone else pointed out, the name "Jack Frost" should have clued us in right away. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Ted , that was kicking a person when their down in my view . Not very > nice , maybe you are having a bad day…sorry . > tim

Response:

Sorry – meant SMTP servers miss a lot of the posts So, I usually cc by email, so the recepiant will be sure to get it. If I mail privately, I usually say so.  I never send attacks in private, just in public, and cc’d, so the scammers can not say I set unsolicited email, I only replied to THEIR post. As for research, the amount of diabetes research going on in the US is huge.  Much of it is paid for by drug companies, but much of it is public, BUT to people who don’t understand how research funding works – it can look smaller than it is THEN there is the misuse of numbers – OF COURSE the amount spent per person with a rare disease is greater than the amount spent PER PERSON with a common disease. He also made a number of simple errors in describing diabetes, and assumed that T1’s can get off of meds with diet and exercise.  Now THAT is in a class with our Bengali frauds. I looked at all that, and merely shook my head, but when he kept quoting Momma Betty, he quoted the part that a biochemist would NEVER quote.  If he had stuck to the mysterious brain tumors (which no one has ever seen) or some of the other more complicated lies, he might have just been a patsy, but NO, he quoted the parts about "toxic formalin caused by aspartame at room temperature"  That is so bad as to be almost FUNNY. This from a BIOCHEMIST – give us a break. Ken quoted some of the same bullcrap, but he 1) Had been a reasonable poster with REAL questions and positions on things. 2) did not claim to be a biochemist Most people didn’t attack HIM, just point out that he was wrong. AND, he is still here, still participating, and has stopped quoiting Betty. I do not CARE if you use artificial sweeteners or not, as long as you don’t push scare stories, or sell Stevia.   I don’[t even use much sweeteners at all, artificial ort otherwise.  I didn’t put sugar in my coffee before, so I didn’t need to replace the sugar with something. Sometimes I drink diet soda, BUT, since I don’t crave sweets, it isn’t a big deal for me.  Some people have a real craving for sweets, and artificial sweetners are a necessity for them. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->cc’d by email >FIRST Annette, HE does not know anything about the state of > diabetic >research in the US, everything he said was wrong. >SECOND: He claimed knowledge in the field of research and > biochemistry >that was SO phony that it was clear he was not what he claimed to > be. >THIRD: He clearly knew little or nothing about diabetes >FINALLY: (and what set ME off) was he did the Momma Betty > Aspartame >Troll bit, RIGHT off of her website, Including statements that no > one >with ANY knowledge of biochemistry would make. >He was just another phony Aspartame Troll, TRYING to pretend to be >something else – and, he was a transparent fraud, NOT a diabetic > Hi there Ted, > I respect your right to express your opinions here.  Whether I agree > with them or not.  Although I *do* mind the bad language you use at > times when you are angry.  But I just have to put up with it, I > suppose.   I put up with a lot of things here, that I don’t > personally like. > And I don’t mind if you send an email to me privately. > What *I* find annoying is when you do both at the same time.  Is it > unavoidable in your computer set up?  If you CAN change it to do > either one or the other I would be very grateful. > As for what you have to say, I have no reply to offer.  I don’t know > enough about Jack to comment.  I take people at face value initially > until I am convinced otherwise. > I simply understood that he does have T1 diabetes and thus probably > needs the support and help of the group.  He seemed very fervent > about improving the situation for T1 diabetics.  He doesn’t know > much about T2’s.  That was all I observed, really. You say this > isn’t so.  How can you tell?  Do you have evidence of this, or is it > just a conclusion you have made? > I am frequently approached by people endeavouring to recruit people > to their particular cause.  They can be persistant, annoying and > sometimes offensive.  Still, I can just say NO.  They can’t make me > do anything I don’t want to do.  No matter how important the issue > or insistant they are.  I just let it go. > In the same way I have observed you are very fervent about > protecting people here from being deceived or misled.  That’s *your* > main goal.  I just accept that’s how you are, and i can get worked > up about that sometimes too. I respect your fervour as well. We each > have our own thing. > You probably think I am niaive. But it works for me. Live and let > live.  Speak the truth with love. Treat others as I would like to be > treated. And so on. > With all due respect for your opinions, > All the best, > Annette > The 4 Guidelines for Co-operation. > 1. In necessary things, strictness and unity. > 2. In optional things, detachment and liberty. > 3. In disagreements (usually about whether something is optional or > necessary), respect and personal integrity. > 4. In ALL things, reason and honesty. > — > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

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cc’d by email FIRST Annette, HE does not know anything about the state of diabetic research in the US, everything he said was wrong. SECOND: He claimed knowledge in the field of research and biochemistry that was SO phony that it was clear he was not what he claimed to be. THIRD: He clearly knew little or nothing about diabetes FINALLY: (and what set ME off) was he did the Momma Betty Aspartame Troll bit, RIGHT off of her website, Including statements that no one with ANY knowledge of biochemistry would make. He was just another phony Aspartame Troll, TRYING to pretend to be something else – and, he was a transparent fraud, NOT a diabetic – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Well I’m sure that a few of you will be pleased to learn that your > efforts have succeeded in driving me away. > Hi there Jack, > I didn’t comment on your posts because I live in a different country > where the issues are somewhat different, and besides, there would be > no point, politically, anyway. But I did read them . > I agree that there appears to be a great deal of apathy when it > comes to trying to change govt attitudes and policies.  Most perhaps > just don’t have the time or energy to take it on. Some simply lack > the fervour. > One thing that I did notice was that you semed to be too focussed on > one aspect of diabetes rather than things that might have a wider > appeal to your audience.  Whatever. I do admire your recognition of > the need to take action. > As for being driven away, how about narking them, and staying on, > even just to irritate the offenders?  I sure wish some of the trolls > would leave as readily when insulted!  Like bad smells, they can be > hard to get rid of. > Genuine people like yourself are a lot less vocal while being the > very ones this group exists to help. >This has become a very negative place for me because of a few. > Like many of you I have enough negativity >in my life without asking > for more.  I wish everyone much luck with your diabetes as I > struggle with mine.  I >shall continue to solicit my representatives > to fund diabetes research and I urge each of you to do likewise. >Thanks to the (very) few who responded to me personally in a > positive manner. > It’s great to see that those few who offended you haven’t > discouraged you from doing what *you* can.  That’s all any of us can > do.  But do be prepared for a long haul.  I’ve had diabetes for a > long time, and have seen efforts to improve Govt recognition and > assistance taking a long time to gain any headway.  It has taken at > least 20 years to see any results, but lately things *are* moving in > a better direction.  I’d bet that many a hard working , fervent > lobbyist, have had broken hearts through the years.   Every time > there is a change of government  there are new minds to win over, > new battles to fight.  And so on it goes. > The other side of things that you might want to consider is your own > personal need for support and help with managing diabetes.  There > are a lot of good hearted, knowledgable and experienced people in > the group.  Don’t throw the baby out with the bath water.  Or let a > few flies spoil your Bar-B-Que! > Whatever you decide, I wish you all the best. > Annette from Oz. > — > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> cc’d by email > FIRST Annette, HE does not know anything about the state of diabetic > research in the US, everything he said was wrong. > SECOND: He claimed knowledge in the field of research and biochemistry > that was SO phony that it was clear he was not what he claimed to be. > THIRD: He clearly knew little or nothing about diabetes > FINALLY: (and what set ME off) was he did the Momma Betty Aspartame > Troll bit, RIGHT off of her website, Including statements that no one > with ANY knowledge of biochemistry would make. > He was just another phony Aspartame Troll, TRYING to pretend to be > something else – and, he was a transparent fraud, NOT a diabetic

Hi there Ted, I respect your right to express your opinions here.  Whether I agree with them or not.  Although I *do* mind the bad language you use at times when you are angry.  But I just have to put up with it, I suppose.   I put up with a lot of things here, that I don’t personally like. And I don’t mind if you send an email to me privately. What *I* find annoying is when you do both at the same time.  Is it unavoidable in your computer set up?  If you CAN change it to do either one or the other I would be very grateful. As for what you have to say, I have no reply to offer.  I don’t know enough about Jack to comment.  I take people at face value initially until I am convinced otherwise. I simply understood that he does have T1 diabetes and thus probably needs the support and help of the group.  He seemed very fervent about improving the situation for T1 diabetics.  He doesn’t know much about T2’s.  That was all I observed, really. You say this isn’t so.  How can you tell?  Do you have evidence of this, or is it just a conclusion you have made? I am frequently approached by people endeavouring to recruit people to their particular cause.  They can be persistant, annoying and sometimes offensive.  Still, I can just say NO.  They can’t make me do anything I don’t want to do.  No matter how important the issue or insistant they are.  I just let it go. In the same way I have observed you are very fervent about protecting people here from being deceived or misled.  That’s *your* main goal.  I just accept that’s how you are, and i can get worked up about that sometimes too. I respect your fervour as well. We each have our own thing. You probably think I am niaive. But it works for me. Live and let live.  Speak the truth with love. Treat others as I would like to be treated. And so on. With all due respect for your opinions, All the best, Annette The 4 Guidelines for Co-operation. 1. In necessary things, strictness and unity. 2. In optional things, detachment and liberty. 3. In disagreements (usually about whether something is optional or necessary), respect and personal integrity. 4. In ALL things, reason and honesty. — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

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  Well I’m sure that a few of you will be pleased to learn that your efforts have succeeded in driving me away.  This has become a very negative place for me because of a few.  Like many of you I have enough negativity in my life without asking for more.  I wish everyone much luck with your diabetes as I struggle with mine.  I shall continue to solicit my representatives to fund diabetes research and I urge each of you to do likewise.  Thanks to the (very) few who responded to me personally in a positive manner.   —   Dear Jack,   So sorry you were met with such difficulty.   This newsgroup is occasionally rather tough on newbies and it was something I didn’t understand either.   After a while you begin to see the reason soon enough.   We are the targets of all sorts of scam artists and snake oil salesmen here, and the regulars here just hate it.   Every new poster is regarded as suspect till they prove they are real and not some peddler of poisons.   Every newcomer sort of gets to run the gauntlet, most especially if they mention suspect products or if they come with previously-formed strong opinions.   I would advise you to take it more slowly and go easy if that is possible.   Not all people here are unkind or heavy handed, and not all those who come on that way mean it unkindly either.   Killfile those whose style you find aggressive, and lurk a while.   You will soon enough see which posters are helpful and kind and filled with goodwill.  We have plenty of them if you take the time to know who they are.   I have found many kind and friendly people here in spite of a similarly rocky early experience.   I wish you well.   Evelyn   "Since everything is but an apparition, perfect in being what it is, having nothing to do with good or bad, acceptance or rejection, one may well burst into laughter."    -Longchenpa

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Hello Jack Frost: sorry this has happened to you too Jack. you will find that you can not see certain people if you so wish. if you kill filter the ones that bother you they can not bother you. i dont know if you are newlie dx’d but if you are – i am truely sorry for what has happened to you also. since i started comming here i have about 50 people that have posted in my kill filter – some are gone and some remain.  if you do not like the way things are in here the best thing you can do is put certain people in your kill filter(ignore them). so the next time someone comes in needing help and gets treated the same way – you will be here to talk to them. i myself welcome any newbie no matter if they like the US – like low carb – low fat artificial sweeteners – it just not matter to me if you have different likes or beliefs than i do. if i dont like someone i simply stop talking to them – i dont feel the need to insult someone just because they have different beliefs or even if i do not like them. may i suggest you try – misc.health.diabetes or alt.support.diabetes.UK i happen to like the people in the UK news group or just the way the group works. good luck to you. but remember you can help make this group a better place for people who have similar feelings as yourself – How? just kill filter those you do not want to talk to – and get help from those who do not insult you and give help to those that need it. Shadow Spirit

Well I’m sure that a few of you will be pleased to learn that your efforts have succeeded in driving me away.  This has become a very negative place for me because of a few.  Like many of you I have enough negativity in my life without asking for more.  I wish everyone much luck with your diabetes as I struggle with mine.  I shall continue to solicit my representatives to fund diabetes research and I urge each of you to do likewise.  Thanks to the (very) few who responded to me personally in a positive manner.

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Maybe if you hadn’t come on like Thor with his mighty hammer I wouldn’t have responded like I did. You need to accept some blame, at least, for what happened. I didn’t mean to "drive you off", just make you realize that you and everyone else are individuals and as such, not everyone can go jogging three times a day (Jim Fixx died of a heart attack while jogging, fyi) like you imply we all needed to do. Budd – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Well I’m sure that a few of you will be pleased to learn that your > efforts have succeeded in driving me away.  This has become a very > negative place for me because of a few.  Like many of you I have enough > negativity in my life without asking for more.  I wish everyone much > luck with your diabetes as I struggle with mine.  I shall continue to > solicit my representatives to fund diabetes research and I urge each of > you to do likewise.  Thanks to the (very) few who responded to me > personally in a positive manner.

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> Well I’m sure that a few of you will be pleased to learn that your

efforts have succeeded in driving me away. Hi there Jack, I didn’t comment on your posts because I live in a different country where the issues are somewhat different, and besides, there would be no point, politically, anyway. But I did read them . I agree that there appears to be a great deal of apathy when it comes to trying to change govt attitudes and policies.  Most perhaps just don’t have the time or energy to take it on. Some simply lack the fervour. One thing that I did notice was that you semed to be too focussed on one aspect of diabetes rather than things that might have a wider appeal to your audience.  Whatever. I do admire your recognition of the need to take action. As for being driven away, how about narking them, and staying on, even just to irritate the offenders?  I sure wish some of the trolls would leave as readily when insulted!  Like bad smells, they can be hard to get rid of. Genuine people like yourself are a lot less vocal while being the very ones this group exists to help. >This has become a very negative place for me because of a few.

Like many of you I have enough negativity >in my life without asking for more.  I wish everyone much luck with your diabetes as I struggle with mine.  I >shall continue to solicit my representatives to fund diabetes research and I urge each of you to do likewise. >Thanks to the (very) few who responded to me personally in a

positive manner. It’s great to see that those few who offended you haven’t discouraged you from doing what *you* can.  That’s all any of us can do.  But do be prepared for a long haul.  I’ve had diabetes for a long time, and have seen efforts to improve Govt recognition and assistance taking a long time to gain any headway.  It has taken at least 20 years to see any results, but lately things *are* moving in a better direction.  I’d bet that many a hard working , fervent lobbyist, have had broken hearts through the years.   Every time there is a change of government  there are new minds to win over, new battles to fight.  And so on it goes. The other side of things that you might want to consider is your own personal need for support and help with managing diabetes.  There are a lot of good hearted, knowledgable and experienced people in the group.  Don’t throw the baby out with the bath water.  Or let a few flies spoil your Bar-B-Que! Whatever you decide, I wish you all the best. Annette from Oz. — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

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Dear Jack I have been here almost five years and I think it is very sad that you feel you must leave. In this group these days you have to take what is good for your diabetes and leave the rest. Block those that hurt or offend you. But please stay and get what you need to live and live healthy. If you must go though I wish you all the best and take very good care of yourself and find a "real" support group that is willing to give you their best. Diana

Well I’m sure that a few of you will be pleased to learn that your efforts have succeeded in driving me away.  This has become a very negative place for me because of a few.  Like many of you I have enough negativity in my life without asking for more.  I wish everyone much luck with your diabetes as I struggle with mine.  I shall continue to solicit my representatives to fund diabetes research and I urge each of you to do likewise.  Thanks to the (very) few who responded to me personally in a positive manner.

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cc’d by email Well, that is YOUR decision Someone comes on the newsgroup spouts a whole bunch of arrant nonsense And WE are accused of being inhospitable when we point out that he is full of shit If you are going to continue to moan, whine, pontificate, and lie – you should not worry about the doorknob on the way out. If, instead, you asked and listened – you might learn something.  You then might even be able to contribute. BUT, you don’t WANT to learn anything, you want to impress all of us with your greatness. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > *Well I’m sure that a few of you will be pleased to learn that your > efforts have succeeded in driving me away.  This has become a very > negative place for me because of a few.  Like many of you I have enough > negativity in my life without asking for more.  I wish everyone much > luck with your diabetes as I struggle with mine.  I shall continue to > solicit my representatives to fund diabetes research and I urge each of > you to do likewise.  Thanks to the (very) few who responded to me > personally in a positive manner.*

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>Someone comes on the newsgroup >spouts a whole bunch of arrant nonsense >And WE are accused of being inhospitable when we point out that he is >full of shit >If you are going to continue to moan, whine, pontificate, and lie – you >should not worry about the doorknob on the way out.

Ted – put a sock in it. Enough. PS If you want to email me direct, feel free. Remove spam.  My hide is fairly thick. You perform a good service here against spammers, but learn when to quit when you’re ahead. Where I come from, kicking a man when he’s down is considered cowardice. Cheers Alan, T2, Oz

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Jack, I’ve only been here a few months and I personally have found everyone to be very helpful.  Correct me if I am wrong, but the way I see, you just came in and started shouting away about funding and immediately expected everyone to jump on board with you. Would you normally just walk into a room full of people that you don’t know and start shouting, "Hey everybody, let’s go march on The White House!!?? Your cause is noble, but you need to refine your approach so that people will consider listening to you in the future. — Eddie Type 2   Well I’m sure that a few of you will be pleased to learn that your efforts have succeeded in driving me away.  This has become a very negative place for me because of a few.  Like many of you I have enough negativity in my life without asking for more.  I wish everyone much luck with your diabetes as I struggle with mine.  I shall continue to solicit my representatives to fund diabetes research and I urge each of you to do likewise.  Thanks to the (very) few who responded to me personally in a positive manner.

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>If you are going to continue to moan, whine, pontificate, and lie – you >should not worry about the doorknob on the way out.

I just remembered why I don’t like to read your posts. Dana "The leading cause of death among fashion models is  falling through street grates."  ~Dave Barry~

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> Well I’m sure that a few of you will be pleased to learn that > your efforts have succeeded in driving me away.  This has > become a very negative place for me because of a few.  Like > many of you I have enough negativity in my life without > asking for more.  I wish everyone much luck with your > diabetes as I struggle with mine.  I shall continue to > solicit my representatives to fund diabetes research and I > urge each of you to do likewise.  Thanks to the (very) few > who responded to me personally in a positive manner.

Bye! Have a good life… BJ

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Well I’m sure that a few of you will be pleased to learn that your efforts have succeeded in driving me away.  This has become a very negative place for me because of a few.  Like many of you I have enough negativity in my life without asking for more.  I wish everyone much luck with your diabetes as I struggle with mine.  I shall continue to solicit my representatives to fund diabetes research and I urge each of you to do likewise.  Thanks to the (very) few who responded to me personally in a positive manner.

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take care, Jack. I filter out folks that irritate me too much.  (‘course that’s just a select few… ) we’ll be right here if you change your mind… dave – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Well I’m sure that a few of you will be pleased to learn that your > efforts have succeeded in driving me away.  This has become a very > negative place for me because of a few.  Like many of you I have enough > negativity in my life without asking for more.  I wish everyone much > luck with your diabetes as I struggle with mine.  I shall continue to > solicit my representatives to fund diabetes research and I urge each of > you to do likewise.  Thanks to the (very) few who responded to me > personally in a positive manner.

Response:

>Well I’m sure that a few of you will be pleased to learn that your efforts have succeeded in driving me away.  This has become a very negative place for me because of a few.  Like many of you I have enough negativity in my life without asking for more.  I wish everyone much luck with your diabetes as I struggle with mine.  I shall continue to solicit my representatives to fund diabetes research and I urge each of you to do likewise.  Thanks to the (very) few who responded to me personally in a positive manner.

As I’m one of those who chided you, I’m sorry to see you go. I have found that the end result, measured simply in A1c, controlled BGs, low blood pressure and better quality of life more than make up for the hassles and vitriol. There is a lot of good info and many good people here; but you have to be prepared to take it if you throw an unsupported statement out on the ether. Too many lurkers are reading who may believe a false statement if it is not rebutted. This is definitely a forum for put up or shut up. There are also a lot of twits here, and you have to wade through their dross at times. Sometimes that can be any of us; anyone can post something stupid or hurtful (including either of us), the smart part is admitting it later. People are complex and life is unfair. Now that we have accepted the truth of that, I wish you’d stay – but if you have to go, goodbye and good luck. Cheers Alan, T2, Oz

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This post not CC’d by email >Well I’m sure that a few of you will be pleased to learn that your efforts have succeeded in driving me away.  This has become a very negative place for me because of a few.  Like many of you I have enough negativity in my life without asking for more.  I wish everyone much luck with your diabetes as I struggle with mine.  I shall continue to solicit my representatives to fund diabetes research and I urge each of you to do likewise.  Thanks to the (very) few who responded to me personally in a positive manner.

G’day G’day Jack,  Now that is sad.  Not because anyone was unkind to you or anything like that.  It is sad because you have political aspirations, aspirations that could produce a lot of benefit for diabetics and you are thin skinned. Sadly it isn’t a workable combination. IMHO have a good nights sleep and reflect on it. If your position advocating militancy on the part of diabetics is valid, it will be still as valid tomorrow.  If it is not then best it die a quick and quiet death. Let’s say on reflection you decide that militant advocacy is what is required to produce political awareness, then before running up against some real hard-nosed politicians how about coming back here and sparring. If the standard of sparring partners isn’t up to the training you require you could pay a mole to sling abuse and poo poo all your suggestions regardless of how sensible them might be.   That way you will be much better prepared for when you take on the real thing.  You’ll have the devastating answers when they are most needed. When split seconds count you’ll know the right thing to say. Pick a few fights with the serotonin deficient posters whose insulin is well and truly out of whack.  That way when it really counts nothing will faze you. Nothing. Best wishes with the courage and depth of passion thing. — Quentin Grady       ^  ^  / New Zealand,       >#,#< [                     / /     "… and the blind dog was leading." http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin

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Guy , If a model is known to have frequent engine problems , might it have been possible for him to use a paracute . If you know you have diabetes , you have at least SOME precautions that should be taken before it gets you at an early age . My grandfather did not know , he just died in the hospital after a fataly high BG and organ failure . Life is all a gamble anyway though , but better safe than sorry too . tim – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Years ago I used to fly.  Once I had > an engine failure on take off.  I > got it down without a mark on me or the > plane.  All I heard from one person was > what all I did wrong.   About a month later > he had an engine failure in  a good area.  He > managed to crash the plane and kill himself. > Another on the curve.  But so typical. > Diabetes is a serious disease, and we do not know > enough about it. Mother Nature is deaf and does not read > newsgroups. >                                           Guy

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Frankly I did not miss him.  My opinion is that his death was self inflicted.                              Guy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->when you found out he died, did you go "na-na-na-nah-nah-na"? sheesh! >dave > Years ago I used to fly.  Once I had > an engine failure on take off.  I > got it down without a mark on me or the > plane.  All I heard from one person was > what all I did wrong.   About a month later > he had an engine failure in  a good area.  He > managed to crash the plane and kill himself. > Another on the curve.  But so typical. > Diabetes is a serious disease, and we do not know > enough about it. Mother Nature is deaf and does not read > newsgroups. >                                           Guy

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Good answer Guy, don’t let these guys bug you. There’s lots of us who listen. The silent majority is always here, listening and learning. Life wisdom does not go unheeded. — t2_lurking geabbottATabbottandabbottDOTcom Do not mail to t2_lurking (auto-delete)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Frankly I did not miss him.  My opinion is that his death was > self inflicted. >                              Guy >when you found out he died, did you go "na-na-na-nah-nah-na"? sheesh! >dave >> Years ago I used to fly.  Once I had >> an engine failure on take off.  I >> got it down without a mark on me or the >> plane.  All I heard from one person was >> what all I did wrong.   About a month later >> he had an engine failure in  a good area.  He >> managed to crash the plane and kill himself. >> Another on the curve.  But so typical. >> Diabetes is a serious disease, and we do not know >> enough about it. Mother Nature is deaf and does not read >> newsgroups. >>                                           Guy

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Years ago I used to fly.  Once I had an engine failure on take off.  I got it down without a mark on me or the plane.  All I heard from one person was what all I did wrong.   About a month later he had an engine failure in  a good area.  He managed to crash the plane and kill himself. Another on the curve.  But so typical. Diabetes is a serious disease, and we do not know enough about it. Mother Nature is deaf and does not read newsgroups.                                           Guy

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when you found out he died, did you go "na-na-na-nah-nah-na"? sheesh! dave – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Years ago I used to fly.  Once I had > an engine failure on take off.  I > got it down without a mark on me or the > plane.  All I heard from one person was > what all I did wrong.   About a month later > he had an engine failure in  a good area.  He > managed to crash the plane and kill himself. > Another on the curve.  But so typical. > Diabetes is a serious disease, and we do not know > enough about it. Mother Nature is deaf and does not read > newsgroups. >                                           Guy

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Q – I’ve read all the responses to you, and I know it’s exactly what you don’t want to hear… but you do have to seek medical attention. The one thing no one has asked you is:  What are you doing to get insurance? You say you won’t be dx’d until you have it… so what is your plan for getting some? What steps have you taken? Where have you sought help? What programs have you looked into? You can and must be proactive on this matter.  You have to fight for yourself and your health the way you would for someone you loved.  You have to make calls and research on the net to find out all your insurance options.   And you have to do it now. So.  What will you do? And what can we do to help? Jennifer

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> You don’t get it > he HAS to see a doctor > There are NO excuses

I didn’t think I was making excuses … but that could be a matter of opinion or point of view. as is the line just above, however coercive it appears to me. > I am not about to give any advice to anyone who won’t seek medical > advice.

"won’t seek medical advice" ??? Would you please not make false conclusions on my behalf? Do you ever get even the slightest bit uncomfortable when you encroach on other people’s autonomy? > Unlike you Brits, LOTS of us in the US do not have insurance – it is > expensive to see a doctor, and we may have trouble paying for it.

Thank you for understanding. > BUT, he has to.  cutting out the crap he is scarfing down would help pay > for it.

"crap he is scarfing down" ??? Read it again … not IS but WAS, I quote: "stopped now" … Disregarding the negatively connoted semantically loaded: "scarfing  down" and "crap"  - Logic won’t support your statement. My existing supplies were purchased long before I had a clue about having diabetes. Stores don’t take back opened bottles, so there is no way to "help pay for it." by cutting out the crap. Thanks again for the understanding Quirque whoever takes umbrage when none was intended … is a fool. whoever takes umbrage when it was intended … is a STUPID fool. (just my opinion)

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> I guess what would irritate most americans if they knew about it was > that you almost had an "NHS" style system very similar to what we > have here but it fell foul of the political system at the time, i > think it was bush senior who poopooed the idea.

Actually, universal health care was one of the coverages that was to be enacted by the Social Security Act on August 14, 1935 during the first term of FDR. There is very little new under the sun. Regards, James the Elder PS: Folks, try to be more attentive to TRIMMING posts you reply to!

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Snipped just for ya I guess if you stick around long enough everything new is just something old given new clothes, a kick around the spin factory and marketed as the latest and greatest way of doing  things ….. I still think that anyone in any country is entitiled to basic medical care provided for by the state.

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here is a link to the american diabetes associations web site. http://www.diabetes.org/homepage.jsp

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I waded thru all the postings that my server had stored for AHD and ASD and > MHD … close to 2000 … mostly from ASD … took me 4 days, almost > nonstop, sticks about every 2 hrs, eating something as often  ,,, was like > being inside a cross between a cloths dryer and a kaleidoscope !!! I’m spin > dizzy and comfrused. > I hope it is OK to post this to all three (this one time) … As I will > probably lurk in all of them. I don’t plan on revealing much about myself as > I am very poor, have not been diagnosed, and do not want to be diagnosed > until I can find some insurance. (and if I have learned anything from the > past 4 days about SOME of the people in here … what I just said is enough > to start a Dresden style fire storm along the lines of YOU MUST GO TO A > DOC… etc;.) Before you even start … > (1) Do try to have some compassion for a unique individual, (me), and even > though I may be totally misguided … YOU do NOT have the RIGHT to dictate > to me … so unless you believe in coercion … please don’t tell me that I > SHOULD or MUST or OUGHT etc. to do ‘this’ or ‘that’ … I will NOT respond > … If you try too hard … I will tell NewsRover to block you without even > informing you. I DO respond to logical argument and reasoning and gentle > persuasion, when I perceive it is done with caring/affection/concern/love > AND it meshes with MY conscience. > BTW: (a quick aside) Lord Acton coined a Diction, which I rewrote (I’m a > ghost and technical writer, freelance, and need more work, so …. please > … ) … anyhow the revised version goes like this: The FALSE belief that > one person can or does have POWER over another person or persons … > CORRUPTS the person holding said belief … And, if said belief includes > ABSOLUTE POWER, its holder IS CORRUPTED ABSOLUTELY !!! > (2) Do respect my privacy, as if it were you own most heart held possession. > I have no idea what you all can find out about me, (but I have a clue from > some of your anti-spammers’ recent posts) … I haven’t the skill to even > try to hide or confuse what my OS (win98) or news reader (NewsRover) makes > available to you. So I just have to trust you from the get-go, I hope you’re > up to it. > I know that almost all of the above is ‘ground rules’ instead of ‘on topic’ > … but I HAD to say it (I am scared, vulnerable, confused and alone except > for my cat) … NOW: do I understand correctly that questions of a > medical/tech nature should be made to AHD and supportive/social items should > be posted to ASD ??? Then what’s to be posted to MHD? > My sister is type 2, 10 days ago, she fed me lavishly, I downed about 3 > cokes, ice cream sandwiches for desert… the about an hour later said "I > think you are diabetic, here, let me test you." Worst part was she had to > explain a lot of things, especially what 475 mg/dL means and what normal is > supposed to be. Honestly, I didn’t go into denial, but I did pull my head in > and re-evaluate REALITY and incidentally myself image for several days. > I am male, 54′, 260 lbs, Caucasian (is race a factor? – there: my first > question), after that first stick I’ve had a low reading of 145 once (it had > to be false … I’ve since learned that squeezing the finger tip to get the > blood out puts out more plasma and gives false low reading) and a high of > 375. in the last 18 hrs: 269, 281, 294, 364, 335, 294, 248, 231, & 240. > yesterday a high of 338 2 hrs after breakfast, and a low of 221 before > dinner, the rest all over in between (ave 260) … the 3 days before > slightly higher but getting generally lower, with some spikes. about 8+ > sticks a day. eat a little of this … see what happens … eat a little of > that … see what happens … try to keep each 2 hr meal under about 15 > carbs, no raw sugars/starches, up to about 200 calories (x12/day = about > 2400+/-) reading a lot of labels and looking a lot of things up. my #s > indicate to me that I’m in serious trouble and I hope and pray that I got > the wake up call in time. > passing no ketones, but passing 100-1000 mg/dL glucose about 6 times a day > (no pattern to the up/down). I have always drank at least a gallon of water > a day, do a pass a lot of water. I don’t seem to be particularly continually > thirsty … tested that … lots of saliva after 6 hours with no liquid. > Switched to weak Lipton green tea with 1oz lemon juice per 1/2 gal (that’s > my drinking jug size), no sweetener/no sugar, (conscience or intuition and > slim facts moved me to this switch to green tea as a > antioxidant/diuretic/purgative??? I’ll try it for a while, unless you all > give me reason otherwise)… does anybody know if Lipton green tea has > caffeine? how much? (would check with Lipton if was day) (is caffeine > contraindicated?) > have been taking wide and detailed vitamins, minerals, and herbals every day > for almost ever (several months at a time, skip a month ( reality check ), > go at it again … ) stopped now to eliminate any effect they may have been > having (one was ginseng, and a little of EVERYTHING conceivable else, but > not an excessive amount of anything) … > BP mid 130s over mid 80s almost al the time, been that way since I was 19 > and in college … at that time was diagnosed (unofficially) hypoglycemia > after a 4 hr glucose tolerance test. not severe, friend doc said eat every 3 > hours until I started registering hunger on a regular basis. bought a alarm > wrist watch and ate every 3 hrs for couple of years. gradually lost interest > as all seemed normal. night sweats mild and seldom … > have mild sleeping apnea … better since I quit smoking about 3 months ago > … cold turkey … had been smoking slightly less than a pack a day of > ultra lights for about 25 yrs. > minor itching in between toes and bottom of toes and balls of feet … using > Micatin and Scholl foot powder to eliminate the possibility of it being > athelete’s foot ( I hope it is ). will know in another 2 weeks according to > the directions. > no change in vision in years, far sighted slightly, not quite mild > astigmatism almost vertical axis (from reading in the dark as a kid, I’m > told ???), > Last full physical about 3 yrs ago was told all well except what I was doing > to myself : A. lose weight (285 at that time), B. stop smoking, C. exercise. > Now (started a week ago) 15 minutes a day on a stair stepper (make sure Bg > is less that 300) reasonable starting workout, sweat at 5 min. winded at 15. > will work it up to 30 min 6 days/week. and  now at lowest toughness level of > 3 will wind up at toughest level and max min in about 6 months. > Only been testing daily and often since Bayer sent me a new meter which > arrived on the 17th. Sis had an old Bayer lancet machine and meter but the > meter didn’t work right and Bayer was nice enough to send me a new newer one > and instructions (sis didn’t have them) and a case and a box of disks and a > bag of lancets and calibrating solution. the latter three have not arrived > yet. So I am using disks (test strips) that are a year expired, but checking > against sis’s other type of meter with current strips seems to indicate that > I’m getting reasonably accurate readings. it will be nice to calibrate the > meter and run a current disk thru it. How I’m going to afford disks when I > run out I don’t know … but I will find a way !!! Yes, the 3 day rethink > exited with among other things RESOLVE.  And I acknowledge that I neeeed > help: at least information and ideas and options, and hopefully > acquaintances and friends. > Gotta plan on the exercise. Trying not to stress  (BP would indicate I’m > reasonably OK) I think that I am in glucose toxicity. I think that I need to > get my #s down to ?normal? or near, to get out of toxicity, so that the > numbers will mean something more real, so that I quit passing Gl. so that I > can get to a place where I can build a more permanent plan. Please correct > me if I’m wrong. Thoughts, questions, suggestions, comments welcome. Oh, > BTW, I’ve got thick skin literally and figuratively … sticks barely hurt > and I hope you can’t push any of my ‘emote’ buttons. > thanks in advance, > quique

Response:

I guess that’s the real issue, without knowing a little more about his circumstance and general location there isn’t much any of us can do except utter the usual phrases, and going to the doctors is always going to be foremost amongst them. I guess what would irritate most americans if they knew about it was that you almost had an "NHS" style system very similar to what we have here but it fell foul of the political system at the time, i think it was bush senior who poopooed the idea. Whilst i think our system has flaws, and i do agree that there should be private and public health care, i would not like to live in a place where the only treatment available was one i had to pay up front for. Patrick

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> There are a few important things. > I feel that it is important NOT to let someone think that they can treat > themselves without medical help. > ANY encouragement in that regard is dangerous. > With some medical advice (and someone who can write prescriptions) > treatment becomes the diabetics responsibility, and most of us here will > be overjoyed to try to help. > No amount of advice here is going to spot a macular bleed which can > steal his sight. > Advice here MAY spot kidney failure, but can’t do a whole lot about it. > With the exception of the few Endo’s one the group, none of us can > prescribe medicine (and they would not without seeing the person) > There are LOTS of good things we CAN do, including advice on how to save > money, and to minimize medical expense,  but a member of your team MUST > be a doctor if you want to live very long, and with any quality of life. > The situation in the US for us uninsured is very rough – we get charged > over twice as much as insurance companies pay for the same care.  Except > in true emergencies, we have to pay cash in advance before anyone will > see us, and it can be hard to find a doctor who will see you at all. > I sympathize with anyone who is TRYING to avoid going to a doctor.  It > may take 3-4 months to get an appointment, if you are not already a > patient, and you don’t have insurance.  THEN, it will cost at LEAST $150 > for a first visit, and you will have to argue with the doctor not to run > THOUSANDS of dollars in tests, and lots of revisits.  THEN you will get > a scrip for about $300+ per month in meds, and they will probably try to > get you to see a dietitian, Endo, Cardiologist, and Opthomologist.  No > wonder the poor guy doesn’t want to see a doctor. > BUT, with work and help, he CAN do better.  He will have to learn to say > the the hospitals "I am sorry, I am a self employed self pay, and I > can’t afford to pay much"  HARD to do, and many hospitals will NOT be > interested, but some may be very helpful. > I walked into a hospital once, for a necessary operation, and, after > admitting told me the cost, and asked for a check, I just went into > shock, and babbled something like "There seems to be a mistake, I don’t >   need that operation, sorry to take up your time"  The admitting clerk > wouldn’t let me leave, and called the surgeon.  She then said " I have a > special fund for uninsured diabetics, they will pay for it". > RARE, but it does happen, and you have to learn to swallow a little > pride and let them know. > He also has to learn to tell his doctor "How much does that drug cost – > is there a cheaper one" and "I can’t afford that, what other options do > I have" > If he is willing to say where he is.  Possibly some of us know about > some programs he can use. > I don’t have insurance either Ted, even though i am british. We have an > health system of sorts. I don’t think he was in any doubt as to whether he > should or should not see a doctor, he asked for advice and information first > and foremost which seems to be what he’s got. > As it happens, i think you’re right, and i guess that our friend knows we’re > all right as well in that he has to see a doctor.  That responsibility lies > with him, but in the meantime any help and advice we can offer is surely > worthwhile:) >>You don’t get it >>he HAS to see a doctor >>There are NO excuses >>I am not about to give any advice to anyone who won’t seek medical >>advice.  It is the same as malpractice. >>Unlike you brits, LOTS of us in the US do not have insurance – it is >>expensive to see a doctor, and we may have trouble paying for it. >>BUT, he has to.  cutting out the crap he is scarfing down would help pay >>for it. >>>Yeah but you must agree that he asked for help, he knows he needs to see > a >>>doctor, that wasn’t the issue that he asked for help with. I can > understand >>>that, and we know nothing of his background nor where he comes from > ……. >>>so that being the case, offering as much help as possible would seem to > be >>>the way forward >>>>It doesn’t matter >>>>If you wait till SOMEDAY >>>>then you die >>>>Almost NO ONE at his age can get or afford non-group insurance., and >>>>group insurance is not underwritten >>>>Why should he expect to get insurance tomorrow, and not today. >>>>>I get the impression that the reason he’s not done that is because he >>>needs >>>>>insurance to pay for the treatment, if you go to the doctor and get >>>>>diagnosed before you get insurance then you won’t get insurance, or not >>>at >>>>>the same price! However that doesn’t make it any less important that he >>>gets >>>>>to see a doctor as soon as he can. >>>>>>cc’d by email >>>>>>sigh >>>>>>You are on a newsgroup – you better get a little less shy if you want > to >>>>>>get the most out of it >>>>>>1) You HAVE to go to a doctor – no choice. >>>>>>a) check your local papers for ads for programs looking for diabetics >>>>>>to study – they will provide, at a minimum,  free medical visits and >>>labs >>>>>>b) Check your local health department and the local hospitals. >>>>>>SOMETIMES there are free, or very low cost diabetic screening > programs. >>>>>>c) look for both on the internet >>>>>>2) Stop wasting your money and endangering yourself with phony "herbs" >>>>>>and "supplements" You can NOT afford those scams, and, they are > usually >>>>>>bad for diabetics. >>>>>>3) After you get a prescription, either post on the NG, or email me >>>>>>privately.  I know LOTS of ways to get cheap or free meds. – you are > NOT >>>>>>the only uninsured person in the US. >>>>>>4) Good thing stopping smoking >>>>>>5) You HAVE to have regular eye exams, from an opthomologist – or, one >>>>>>day SOON you will wake up blind.  Again  there are lots of options > which >>>>>>might get you free, or reduced cost care. >>>>>>People who get flamed on the groups are people who come on to a >>>>>>newsgroup of long time diabetics and TELL us what WE should do, > because >>>>>>they (newbie, troll, scammers, or spammers) know EVERYTHING. (or want > to >>>>>>get rich off of us) >>>>>>People who try and learn will usually get a number of points of view > and >>>>>>possibly useful answers. >>>>>>We can be a bit rough – and you may run into trolls like the Chung, > the >>>>>>Watchtroll, or one of Momma Betty’s Aspartame trolls, and spammers > like >>>>>>herb pushers, BioDeath, Manatech, or their ilk – but they pass. But, > we >>>>>>hope you stay, and that we can be of help to you >>>>>>>I waded thru all the postings that my server had stored for AHD and > ASD >>>>>and >>>>>>>MHD … close to 2000 … mostly from ASD … took me 4 days, almost >>>>>>>nonstop, sticks about every 2 hrs, eating something as often  ,,, was >>>>>like >>>>>>>being inside a cross between a cloths dryer and a kaleidoscope !!! > I’m >>>>>spin >>>>>>>dizzy and comfrused. >>>>>>>I hope it is OK to post this to all three (this one time) … As I > will >>>>>>>probably lurk in all of them. I don’t plan on revealing much about >>>>>myself as >>>>>>>I am very poor, have not been diagnosed, and do not want to be >>>diagnosed >>>>>>>until I can find some insurance. (and if I have learned anything from >>>>>the >>>>>>>past 4 days about SOME of the people in here … what I just said is >>>>>enough >>>>>>>to start a Dresden style fire storm along the lines of YOU MUST GO TO > A >>>>>>>DOC… etc;.) Before you even start … >>>>>>>(1) Do try to have some compassion for a unique individual, (me), and >>>>>even >>>>>>>though I may be totally misguided … YOU do NOT have the RIGHT to >>>>>dictate >>>>>>>to me … so unless you believe in coercion … please don’t tell me >>>>>that I >>>>>>>SHOULD or MUST or OUGHT etc. to do ‘this’ or ‘that’ … I

… read more »

Response:

Ground rules??? you might want to rethink your attitude if you expect help from everyone here who has something to offer you.  Not everyone is going to handle you with kid gloves.  I certainly won’t.  I believe in "tough love" just like Dr. Phil.  If you don’t want help, don’t ask.  If you do, state your questions and sit back and wait for some answers. Threatening to silently plonk is rather juvenile.  Do you think we are all sitting at our pc’s quaking in fear?  If you want to plonk, be man enough to let the person know, so that they won’t waste time with you. dave

snip the ground rules…

Response:

There are a few important things. I feel that it is important NOT to let someone think that they can treat themselves without medical help. ANY encouragement in that regard is dangerous. With some medical advice (and someone who can write prescriptions) treatment becomes the diabetics responsibility, and most of us here will be overjoyed to try to help. No amount of advice here is going to spot a macular bleed which can steal his sight. Advice here MAY spot kidney failure, but can’t do a whole lot about it. With the exception of the few Endo’s one the group, none of us can prescribe medicine (and they would not without seeing the person) There are LOTS of good things we CAN do, including advice on how to save money, and to minimize medical expense,  but a member of your team MUST be a doctor if you want to live very long, and with any quality of life. The situation in the US for us uninsured is very rough – we get charged over twice as much as insurance companies pay for the same care.  Except in true emergencies, we have to pay cash in advance before anyone will see us, and it can be hard to find a doctor who will see you at all. I sympathize with anyone who is TRYING to avoid going to a doctor.  It may take 3-4 months to get an appointment, if you are not already a patient, and you don’t have insurance.  THEN, it will cost at LEAST $150 for a first visit, and you will have to argue with the doctor not to run THOUSANDS of dollars in tests, and lots of revisits.  THEN you will get a scrip for about $300+ per month in meds, and they will probably try to get you to see a dietitian, Endo, Cardiologist, and Opthomologist.  No wonder the poor guy doesn’t want to see a doctor. BUT, with work and help, he CAN do better.  He will have to learn to say the the hospitals "I am sorry, I am a self employed self pay, and I can’t afford to pay much"  HARD to do, and many hospitals will NOT be interested, but some may be very helpful. I walked into a hospital once, for a necessary operation, and, after admitting told me the cost, and asked for a check, I just went into shock, and babbled something like "There seems to be a mistake, I don’t   need that operation, sorry to take up your time"  The admitting clerk wouldn’t let me leave, and called the surgeon.  She then said " I have a special fund for uninsured diabetics, they will pay for it". RARE, but it does happen, and you have to learn to swallow a little pride and let them know. He also has to learn to tell his doctor "How much does that drug cost – is there a cheaper one" and "I can’t afford that, what other options do I have" If he is willing to say where he is.  Possibly some of us know about some programs he can use. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I don’t have insurance either Ted, even though i am british. We have an > health system of sorts. I don’t think he was in any doubt as to whether he > should or should not see a doctor, he asked for advice and information first > and foremost which seems to be what he’s got. > As it happens, i think you’re right, and i guess that our friend knows we’re > all right as well in that he has to see a doctor.  That responsibility lies > with him, but in the meantime any help and advice we can offer is surely > worthwhile:) >You don’t get it >he HAS to see a doctor >There are NO excuses >I am not about to give any advice to anyone who won’t seek medical >advice.  It is the same as malpractice. >Unlike you brits, LOTS of us in the US do not have insurance – it is >expensive to see a doctor, and we may have trouble paying for it. >BUT, he has to.  cutting out the crap he is scarfing down would help pay >for it. >>Yeah but you must agree that he asked for help, he knows he needs to see > a >>doctor, that wasn’t the issue that he asked for help with. I can > understand >>that, and we know nothing of his background nor where he comes from > ……. >>so that being the case, offering as much help as possible would seem to > be >>the way forward >>>It doesn’t matter >>>If you wait till SOMEDAY >>>then you die >>>Almost NO ONE at his age can get or afford non-group insurance., and >>>group insurance is not underwritten >>>Why should he expect to get insurance tomorrow, and not today. >>>>I get the impression that the reason he’s not done that is because he >>needs >>>>insurance to pay for the treatment, if you go to the doctor and get >>>>diagnosed before you get insurance then you won’t get insurance, or not >>at >>>>the same price! However that doesn’t make it any less important that he >>gets >>>>to see a doctor as soon as he can. >>>>>cc’d by email >>>>>sigh >>>>>You are on a newsgroup – you better get a little less shy if you want > to >>>>>get the most out of it >>>>>1) You HAVE to go to a doctor – no choice. >>>>>a) check your local papers for ads for programs looking for diabetics >>>>>to study – they will provide, at a minimum,  free medical visits and >>labs >>>>>b) Check your local health department and the local hospitals. >>>>>SOMETIMES there are free, or very low cost diabetic screening > programs. >>>>>c) look for both on the internet >>>>>2) Stop wasting your money and endangering yourself with phony "herbs" >>>>>and "supplements" You can NOT afford those scams, and, they are > usually >>>>>bad for diabetics. >>>>>3) After you get a prescription, either post on the NG, or email me >>>>>privately.  I know LOTS of ways to get cheap or free meds. – you are > NOT >>>>>the only uninsured person in the US. >>>>>4) Good thing stopping smoking >>>>>5) You HAVE to have regular eye exams, from an opthomologist – or, one >>>>>day SOON you will wake up blind.  Again  there are lots of options > which >>>>>might get you free, or reduced cost care. >>>>>People who get flamed on the groups are people who come on to a >>>>>newsgroup of long time diabetics and TELL us what WE should do, > because >>>>>they (newbie, troll, scammers, or spammers) know EVERYTHING. (or want > to >>>>>get rich off of us) >>>>>People who try and learn will usually get a number of points of view > and >>>>>possibly useful answers. >>>>>We can be a bit rough – and you may run into trolls like the Chung, > the >>>>>Watchtroll, or one of Momma Betty’s Aspartame trolls, and spammers > like >>>>>herb pushers, BioDeath, Manatech, or their ilk – but they pass.  But, > we >>>>>hope you stay, and that we can be of help to you >>>>>>I waded thru all the postings that my server had stored for AHD and > ASD >>>>and >>>>>>MHD … close to 2000 … mostly from ASD … took me 4 days, almost >>>>>>nonstop, sticks about every 2 hrs, eating something as often  ,,, was >>>>like >>>>>>being inside a cross between a cloths dryer and a kaleidoscope !!! > I’m >>>>spin >>>>>>dizzy and comfrused. >>>>>>I hope it is OK to post this to all three (this one time) … As I > will >>>>>>probably lurk in all of them. I don’t plan on revealing much about >>>>myself as >>>>>>I am very poor, have not been diagnosed, and do not want to be >>diagnosed >>>>>>until I can find some insurance. (and if I have learned anything from >>>>the >>>>>>past 4 days about SOME of the people in here … what I just said is >>>>enough >>>>>>to start a Dresden style fire storm along the lines of YOU MUST GO TO > A >>>>>>DOC… etc;.) Before you even start … >>>>>>(1) Do try to have some compassion for a unique individual, (me), and >>>>even >>>>>>though I may be totally misguided … YOU do NOT have the RIGHT to >>>>dictate >>>>>>to me … so unless you believe in coercion … please don’t tell me >>>>that I >>>>>>SHOULD or MUST or OUGHT etc. to do ‘this’ or ‘that’ … I will NOT >>>>respond >>>>>>… If you try too hard … I will tell NewsRover to block you > without >>>>even >>>>>>informing you. I DO respond to logical argument and reasoning and >>gentle >>>>>>persuasion, when I perceive it is done with >>>>caring/affection/concern/love >>>>>>AND it meshes with MY conscience. >>>>>>BTW: (a quick aside) Lord Acton coined a Diction, which I rewrote > (I’m >>a >>>>>>ghost and technical writer, freelance, and need more work, so …. >>>>please >>>>>>… ) … anyhow the revised version goes like this: The FALSE belief >>>>that >>>>>>one person can or does have POWER over another person or persons … >>>>>>CORRUPTS the person holding said belief … And, if said belief >>includes >>>>>>ABSOLUTE POWER, its holder IS CORRUPTED ABSOLUTELY !!! >>>>>>(2) Do respect my privacy, as if it were you own most heart held >>>>possession. >>>>>>I have no idea what you all can find out about me, (but I have a clue >>>>from >>>>>>some of your anti-spammers’ recent posts) … I haven’t the skill to >>>>even >>>>>>try to hide or confuse

… read more »

Response:

Since you have a meter, start out with Jennifer’s advice to newbies. She’ll be along with it soon, or you can find it at Ratty’s Site www.flyingrat.net. Try to get those numbers down while you’re waiting for your insurance, though at your age, most health insurers will want a physical since you are not buying into group insurance. I hope you succeed in obtaining it. Good luck. — Cheri – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >I hope it is OK to post this to all three (this one time) … As I will >probably lurk in all of them. I don’t plan on revealing much about myself as >I am very poor, have not been diagnosed, and do not want to be diagnosed >until I can find some insurance. (and if I have learned anything from the >past 4 days about SOME of the people in here … what I just said is enough >to start a Dresden style fire storm along the lines of YOU MUST GO TO A >DOC… etc;.) Before you even start …

Response:

quiqhi, what do you want to hear,  That yes you are definitely a diabetic,  with tose numbers there is no doubvt, do you want us to say cotinue as you are going,  I dont want your death or severe illness at the least to be on my head.  You know it cost me to bury someone than to go to the doctor,  What are your options,  I am sure there are plenty of clinics you can go to,  It is no shame to being poor,  Have you applied for medicaid .  You really need to reevaluate your priorities. The cost of the food you are eating must be high otherwise you probably would not weigh    260. Diabetes is a life changing experience, one that I find is for the better,  I have never been healthier,  My lipids are great, my bgs are low and I feel great,  Before diagnosis, I was 40 pounds heavier, couldnt breathe , felt sick all the time, This is your life and you can do what you wish,  You absolutely sound depressed and could  benefit with professional help to see why you are on a path of destruction I am sure you wont like this response, but I have to tell it like it is to live with myself. I hope you do start the fight to get this disease under control,  You needs meds of some kind, I am sure you know te complications. Loretta — In tribute to the United States of America and the State of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and terrorism.

Response:

> I waded thru all the postings that my server had stored for AHD and ASD and > MHD … close to 2000 … mostly from ASD … took me 4 days, almost > nonstop, sticks about every 2 hrs, eating something as often  ,,, was like > being inside a cross between a cloths dryer and a kaleidoscope !!! I’m spin > dizzy and comfrused.

Hi there quirque, First of all, let me say welcome to the group.  I’ll try to answer your questions, and give you as much support as I can. I’m sure there are many others here who will try to do the same. I guess I’m not surprised that you are feeling dizzy and confused, after reading all that info and trying to take it all in, as well as coming to terms with the shock and alarm of discovering you have high blood glucose (bg) readings. May I suggest you visit our web page and read Jennifer’s advice to newbies?  It will give you a good idea of how to start working out a suitable diet to meet your own metabolism and personal tastes in foods. The URL is; http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org There are other good ideas and info about diabetes to be found there.   Additionally, check out your local library for recent books on the subject, and various sites on the internet – just use a brouser like Google and search under "diabetes". > I hope it is OK to post this to all three (this one time) … As I will > probably lurk in all of them. I don’t plan on revealing much about myself as > I am very poor, have not been diagnosed, and do not want to be diagnosed > until I can find some insurance. (and if I have learned anything from the > past 4 days about SOME of the people in here … what I just said is enough > to start a Dresden style fire storm along the lines of YOU MUST GO TO A > DOC… etc;.) Before you even start …

Cross-posting is not usually encouraged, but this seems like a good time for an exception, since your post is of the nature of an introduction. I personally don’t mind.  You may notice that I am only replying from this group, however, to avoid confusion. I’m very sorry you are in the situation of having to delay seeing a doctor, for financial reasons. Because you may find it very difficult to manage your diabetes and any other related health conditions without their help. Still, I DO hope that some of the suggestions you get from us may at least get you started, and assist you to some extent. > (1) Do try to have some compassion for a unique individual, (me),

More than compassion (which IS important), my goal is to have RESPECT for you, and your right to be who you are, and hold your own beliefs, even if we should disagree about some things.  I sincerely hope you will grant us the same. > and even > though I may be totally misguided … YOU do NOT have the RIGHT to dictate > to me … so unless you believe in coercion … please don’t tell me that I > SHOULD or MUST or OUGHT etc. to do ‘this’ or ‘that’ … I will NOT respond > … If you try too hard … I will tell NewsRover to block you without even > informing you. I DO respond to logical argument and reasoning and gentle > persuasion, when I perceive it is done with

caring/affection/concern/love > AND it meshes with MY conscience.

Of course. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> BTW: (a quick aside) Lord Acton coined a Diction, which I rewrote (I’m a > ghost and technical writer, freelance, and need more work, so …. please > … ) … anyhow the revised version goes like this: The FALSE belief that > one person can or does have POWER over another person or persons … > CORRUPTS the person holding said belief … And, if said belief includes > ABSOLUTE POWER, its holder IS CORRUPTED ABSOLUTELY !!! > (2) Do respect my privacy, as if it were you own most heart held possession. > I have no idea what you all can find out about me, (but I have a clue from > some of your anti-spammers’ recent posts) … I haven’t the skill to even > try to hide or confuse what my OS (win98) or news reader (NewsRover) makes > available to you. So I just have to trust you from the get-go, I hope you’re > up to it.

I can only speak for myself (see above comments re respect). However this is an open forum, and anyone can post to it. Advertising (spam) is not allowed under newsgroup protocol, and any offenders can be reported to their relevant ISP’s.  But it still happens.  So does other offensive behavior and unpleasant posts. You are free to do whatever works for you about it.  I usually either "killfile" the offending poster or mark arguments or things I am not interested in etc as "read", and just skip over them. > I know that almost all of the above is ‘ground rules’ instead of ‘on topic’ > … but I HAD to say it (I am scared, vulnerable, confused and alone except > for my cat) …

I think you’ll find that many of us are in the same boat – scared, vulnerable, confused and alone.  Here’s hoping we can lessen the degree of any of those conditions to some extent.  It won’t be overnight, but as you learn more about your illness (diabetes), and start to gain knowledge and confidence about managing it, those feelings should lessen.  As for being alone, it’s not quite the same as being lonely.  Internet friendships can be very rewarding, and kind of safe for retiring types of  personalities. So I’d recommend you take your time, take what helps and leave the rest. NOW: do I understand correctly that questions of a > medical/tech nature should be made to AHD and supportive/social items should > be posted to ASD ??? Then what’s to be posted to MHD?

Originally, the distinctions were pretty clearly set out, but over time, they’ve tended to drift.  So you may find that these days, the lines are blurred.  MHD was originally limited to posts of a scientific/medical nature. > My sister is type 2, 10 days ago, she fed me lavishly, I downed about 3 > cokes, ice cream sandwiches for desert… the about an hour later said "I > think you are diabetic, here, let me test you." Worst part was she had to > explain a lot of things, especially what 475 mg/dL means and what normal is > supposed to be. Honestly, I didn’t go into denial, but I did pull my head in > and re-evaluate REALITY and incidentally myself image for several days.

Your sister sounds like a very smart, very caring person.  She drew your attention to a serious health condition, and got you to think about it, without offending your sense of self determination. Have you thanked her?  I’d lay odds she’s been worried about you for some time. > I am male, 54′, 260 lbs, Caucasian (is race a factor? – there: my first > question),

Some races do seem to be more genetically susceptible to T2 diabetes, but all races are known to suffer from it.  Additionally, some races seem also to have a tendency to develop diabetic complications of a particular type more often, but again, that’s no safeguard that someone of a different culture won’t get that particular complication.  Because high bg levels and the metabolic syndrome can lead to anyone developing complications, or have higher than normal risk of heart disease and strokes. One of the major goals of this group is to encourage and help people attain as close to non-diabetic numbers as they can manage, for that very reason.  You’ll also see a lot of posts about how to attempt to reduce the risk for other things that seem to accompany diabetes, (the metabolic syndrome). – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> after that first stick I’ve had a low reading of 145 once (it had > to be false … I’ve since learned that squeezing the finger tip to get the > blood out puts out more plasma and gives false low reading) and a high of > 375. in the last 18 hrs: 269, 281, 294, 364, 335, 294, 248, 231, & 240. > yesterday a high of 338 2 hrs after breakfast, and a low of 221 before > dinner, the rest all over in between (ave 260) … the 3 days before > slightly higher but getting generally lower, with some spikes. about 8+ > sticks a day. eat a little of this … see what happens … eat a little of > that … see what happens … try to keep each 2 hr meal under about 15 > carbs, no raw sugars/starches, up to about 200 calories (x12/day = about > 2400+/-) reading a lot of labels and looking a lot of things up. my #s > indicate to me that I’m in serious trouble and I hope and pray that I got > the wake up call in time. > passing no ketones, but passing 100-1000 mg/dL glucose about 6 times a day > (no pattern to the up/down).

My conclusion from that information is that you are in serious trouble.  Your bg levels are dangerously high, and spilling sugar in your urine is a bad sign.  I’m not trying to frighten you, but instead am indicating that I am very worried about you.  Without medical help, it’s going to be difficult to bring those levels down. BUT NOT impossible.  One of my concerns is that without medical help, it is almost impossible to determine if your condition is that of a late developing T1, or a T2.   They can be very difficult to distinguish, even when medical tests ARE carried out, until or unless a T1 situation becomes critically (and dangerously) obvious. If at any time, you find your ketones suddenly increase, don’t delay, but get to the ER as soon as you can.  Your life may depend on it. In the meantime, I guess we’ll just have to go with the assumption that you are a T2 diabetic.   Many doctors do the same. > I have always drank at least a gallon of water > a day, do a pass a lot of water. I don’t seem to be particularly continually > thirsty … tested that … lots of saliva after 6 hours with no

liquid. In my humble opinion (IMHO), drinking lots of water sounds like a good idea.  It is helping you to flush out some of that excess glucose, and keep the ketones down.  It may also be helping your kidneys.  I think you’ll find that most experts recommend staying well hydrated is always a good idea. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Switched to weak Lipton green tea with 1oz lemon juice per 1/2 gal

… read more »

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I waded thru all the postings that my server had stored for AHD and ASD and > MHD … close to 2000 … mostly from ASD … took me 4 days, almost > nonstop, sticks about every 2 hrs, eating something as often  ,,, was like > being inside a cross between a cloths dryer and a kaleidoscope !!! I’m spin > dizzy and comfrused. > I hope it is OK to post this to all three (this one time) … As I will > probably lurk in all of them. I don’t plan on revealing much about myself as > I am very poor, have not been diagnosed, and do not want to be diagnosed > until I can find some insurance. (and if I have learned anything from the > past 4 days about SOME of the people in here … what I just said is enough > to start a Dresden style fire storm along the lines of YOU MUST GO TO A > DOC… etc;.) Before you even start … > (1) Do try to have some compassion for a unique individual, (me), and even > though I may be totally misguided … YOU do NOT have the RIGHT to dictate > to me … so unless you believe in coercion … please don’t tell me that I > SHOULD or MUST or OUGHT etc. to do ‘this’ or ‘that’ … I will NOT respond > … If you try too hard … I will tell NewsRover to block you without even > informing you. I DO respond to logical argument and reasoning and gentle > persuasion, when I perceive it is done with caring/affection/concern/love > AND it meshes with MY conscience. > BTW: (a quick aside) Lord Acton coined a Diction, which I rewrote (I’m a > ghost and technical writer, freelance, and need more work, so …. please > … ) … anyhow the revised version goes like this: The FALSE belief that > one person can or does have POWER over another person or persons … > CORRUPTS the person holding said belief … And, if said belief includes > ABSOLUTE POWER, its holder IS CORRUPTED ABSOLUTELY !!! > (2) Do respect my privacy, as if it were you own most heart held possession. > I have no idea what you all can find out about me, (but I have a clue from > some of your anti-spammers’ recent posts) … I haven’t the skill to even > try to hide or confuse what my OS (win98) or news reader (NewsRover) makes > available to you. So I just have to trust you from the get-go, I hope you’re > up to it. > I know that almost all of the above is ‘ground rules’ instead of ‘on topic’ > … but I HAD to say it (I am scared, vulnerable, confused and alone except > for my cat) … NOW: do I understand correctly that questions of a > medical/tech nature should be made to AHD and supportive/social items should > be posted to ASD ??? Then what’s to be posted to MHD? > My sister is type 2, 10 days ago, she fed me lavishly, I downed about 3 > cokes, ice cream sandwiches for desert… the about an hour later said "I > think you are diabetic, here, let me test you." Worst part was she had to > explain a lot of things, especially what 475 mg/dL means and what normal is > supposed to be. Honestly, I didn’t go into denial, but I did pull my head in > and re-evaluate REALITY and incidentally myself image for several days. > I am male, 54′, 260 lbs, Caucasian (is race a factor? – there: my first > question), after that first stick I’ve had a low reading of 145 once (it had > to be false … I’ve since learned that squeezing the finger tip to get the > blood out puts out more plasma and gives false low reading) and a high of > 375. in the last 18 hrs: 269, 281, 294, 364, 335, 294, 248, 231, & 240. > yesterday a high of 338 2 hrs after breakfast, and a low of 221 before > dinner, the rest all over in between (ave 260) … the 3 days before > slightly higher but getting generally lower, with some spikes. about 8+ > sticks a day. eat a little of this … see what happens … eat a little of > that … see what happens … try to keep each 2 hr meal under about 15 > carbs, no raw sugars/starches, up to about 200 calories (x12/day = about > 2400+/-) reading a lot of labels and looking a lot of things up. my #s > indicate to me that I’m in serious trouble and I hope and pray that I got > the wake up call in time. > passing no ketones, but passing 100-1000 mg/dL glucose about 6 times a day > (no pattern to the up/down). I have always drank at least a gallon of water > a day, do a pass a lot of water. I don’t seem to be particularly continually > thirsty … tested that … lots of saliva after 6 hours with no liquid. > Switched to weak Lipton green tea with 1oz lemon juice per 1/2 gal (that’s > my drinking jug size), no sweetener/no sugar, (conscience or intuition and > slim facts moved me to this switch to green tea as a > antioxidant/diuretic/purgative??? I’ll try it for a while, unless you all > give me reason otherwise)… does anybody know if Lipton green tea has > caffeine? how much? (would check with Lipton if was day) (is caffeine > contraindicated?) > have been taking wide and detailed vitamins, minerals, and herbals every day > for almost ever (several months at a time, skip a month ( reality check ), > go at it again … ) stopped now to eliminate any effect they may have been > having (one was ginseng, and a little of EVERYTHING conceivable else, but > not an excessive amount of anything) … > BP mid 130s over mid 80s almost al the time, been that way since I was 19 > and in college … at that time was diagnosed (unofficially) hypoglycemia > after a 4 hr glucose tolerance test. not severe, friend doc said eat every 3 > hours until I started registering hunger on a regular basis. bought a alarm > wrist watch and ate every 3 hrs for couple of years. gradually lost interest > as all seemed normal. night sweats mild and seldom … > have mild sleeping apnea … better since I quit smoking about 3 months ago > … cold turkey … had been smoking slightly less than a pack a day of > ultra lights for about 25 yrs. > minor itching in between toes and bottom of toes and balls of feet … using > Micatin and Scholl foot powder to eliminate the possibility of it being > athelete’s foot ( I hope it is ). will know in another 2 weeks according to > the directions. > no change in vision in years, far sighted slightly, not quite mild > astigmatism almost vertical axis (from reading in the dark as a kid, I’m > told ???), > Last full physical about 3 yrs ago was told all well except what I was doing > to myself : A. lose weight (285 at that time), B. stop smoking, C. exercise. > Now (started a week ago) 15 minutes a day on a stair stepper (make sure Bg > is less that 300) reasonable starting workout, sweat at 5 min. winded at 15. > will work it up to 30 min 6 days/week. and  now at lowest toughness level of > 3 will wind up at toughest level and max min in about 6 months. > Only been testing daily and often since Bayer sent me a new meter which > arrived on the 17th. Sis had an old Bayer lancet machine and meter but the > meter didn’t work right and Bayer was nice enough to send me a new newer one > and instructions (sis didn’t have them) and a case and a box of disks and a > bag of lancets and calibrating solution. the latter three have not arrived > yet. So I am using disks (test strips) that are a year expired, but checking > against sis’s other type of meter with current strips seems to indicate that > I’m getting reasonably accurate readings. it will be nice to calibrate the > meter and run a current disk thru it. How I’m going to afford disks when I > run out I don’t know … but I will find a way !!! Yes, the 3 day rethink > exited with among other things RESOLVE.  And I acknowledge that I neeeed > help: at least information and ideas and options, and hopefully > acquaintances and friends. > Gotta plan on the exercise. Trying not to stress  (BP would indicate I’m > reasonably OK) I think that I am in glucose toxicity. I think that I need to > get my #s down to ?normal? or near, to get out of toxicity, so that the > numbers will mean something more real, so that I quit passing Gl. so that I > can get to a place where I can build a more permanent plan. Please correct > me if I’m wrong. Thoughts, questions, suggestions, comments welcome. Oh, > BTW, I’ve got thick skin literally and figuratively … sticks barely hurt > and I hope you can’t push any of my ‘emote’ buttons. > thanks in advance, > quique

I’ll actually try to contribute something instead of only asking questions for a change… I’m in a similar position of not being able to afford the disease and not having any insurance, and of having neglected my health for much of the past six years that I’ve been type 1 diabetic.  I’m glad that you came to the group making a statement and asking questions when you did because, regardless of how good or bad you feel, running with numbers like that is doing tremendous damage to your body and one day it’s a fair bet that it’s going to crash on you.  It’s a tough thing to control, and I’m still working at getting my own health under control, but it is doable, if only difficult. That being said, there’s LOTS of help out there.  In advice, from this group.  Financially and medically, check around your local area to see if there is a charity hospital or some sort of state or federal aid. There are long waits and some decidedly shady characters around you, but there’s also medical advice and prescriptions at cost, if you qualify. Just know that after that first time, they’re going to want to see you pretty frequently until things are under control.  This is something that I’m struggling with myself because of my distrust of the medical community and unease with going to medical institutions, but my fiancee (a *nurse*–yeah, I know, odd ain’t it?) and my common sense have convinced me that in the end it would be better to keep all the appointments.  Good news is that as time goes by, they’ll want to see you less and less frequently. Having been someone who recently rubbed some people in this group the wrong way with a natural alternative vs. artificial sweetener … read more »

Response:

I don’t have insurance either Ted, even though i am british. We have an health system of sorts. I don’t think he was in any doubt as to whether he should or should not see a doctor, he asked for advice and information first and foremost which seems to be what he’s got. As it happens, i think you’re right, and i guess that our friend knows we’re all right as well in that he has to see a doctor.  That responsibility lies with him, but in the meantime any help and advice we can offer is surely worthwhile:)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> You don’t get it > he HAS to see a doctor > There are NO excuses > I am not about to give any advice to anyone who won’t seek medical > advice.  It is the same as malpractice. > Unlike you brits, LOTS of us in the US do not have insurance – it is > expensive to see a doctor, and we may have trouble paying for it. > BUT, he has to.  cutting out the crap he is scarfing down would help pay > for it. > Yeah but you must agree that he asked for help, he knows he needs to see a > doctor, that wasn’t the issue that he asked for help with. I can understand > that, and we know nothing of his background nor where he comes from …… > so that being the case, offering as much help as possible would seem to be > the way forward >>It doesn’t matter >>If you wait till SOMEDAY >>then you die >>Almost NO ONE at his age can get or afford non-group insurance., and >>group insurance is not underwritten >>Why should he expect to get insurance tomorrow, and not today. >>>I get the impression that the reason he’s not done that is because he > needs >>>insurance to pay for the treatment, if you go to the doctor and get >>>diagnosed before you get insurance then you won’t get insurance, or not > at >>>the same price! However that doesn’t make it any less important that he > gets >>>to see a doctor as soon as he can. >>>>cc’d by email >>>>sigh >>>>You are on a newsgroup – you better get a little less shy if you want to >>>> get the most out of it >>>>1) You HAVE to go to a doctor – no choice. >>>>a) check your local papers for ads for programs looking for diabetics >>>>to study – they will provide, at a minimum,  free medical visits and > labs >>>>b) Check your local health department and the local hospitals. >>>>SOMETIMES there are free, or very low cost diabetic screening programs. >>>>c) look for both on the internet >>>>2) Stop wasting your money and endangering yourself with phony "herbs" >>>>and "supplements" You can NOT afford those scams, and, they are usually >>>>bad for diabetics. >>>>3) After you get a prescription, either post on the NG, or email me >>>>privately.  I know LOTS of ways to get cheap or free meds. – you are NOT >>>>the only uninsured person in the US. >>>>4) Good thing stopping smoking >>>>5) You HAVE to have regular eye exams, from an opthomologist – or, one >>>>day SOON you will wake up blind.  Again  there are lots of options which >>>>might get you free, or reduced cost care. >>>>People who get flamed on the groups are people who come on to a >>>>newsgroup of long time diabetics and TELL us what WE should do, because >>>>they (newbie, troll, scammers, or spammers) know EVERYTHING. (or want to >>>>get rich off of us) >>>>People who try and learn will usually get a number of points of view and >>>>possibly useful answers. >>>>We can be a bit rough – and you may run into trolls like the Chung, the >>>>Watchtroll, or one of Momma Betty’s Aspartame trolls, and spammers like >>>>herb pushers, BioDeath, Manatech, or their ilk – but they pass.  But, we >>>>hope you stay, and that we can be of help to you >>>>>I waded thru all the postings that my server had stored for AHD and ASD >>>and >>>>>MHD … close to 2000 … mostly from ASD … took me 4 days, almost >>>>>nonstop, sticks about every 2 hrs, eating something as often  ,,, was >>>like >>>>>being inside a cross between a cloths dryer and a kaleidoscope !!! I’m >>>spin >>>>>dizzy and comfrused. >>>>>I hope it is OK to post this to all three (this one time) … As I will >>>>>probably lurk in all of them. I don’t plan on revealing much about >>>myself as >>>>>I am very poor, have not been diagnosed, and do not want to be > diagnosed >>>>>until I can find some insurance. (and if I have learned anything from >>>the >>>>>past 4 days about SOME of the people in here … what I just said is >>>enough >>>>>to start a Dresden style fire storm along the lines of YOU MUST GO TO A >>>>>DOC… etc;.) Before you even start … >>>>>(1) Do try to have some compassion for a unique individual, (me), and >>>even >>>>>though I may be totally misguided … YOU do NOT have the RIGHT to >>>dictate >>>>>to me … so unless you believe in coercion … please don’t tell me >>>that I >>>>>SHOULD or MUST or OUGHT etc. to do ‘this’ or ‘that’ … I will NOT >>>respond >>>>>… If you try too hard … I will tell NewsRover to block you without >>>even >>>>>informing you. I DO respond to logical argument and reasoning and > gentle >>>>>persuasion, when I perceive it is done with >>>caring/affection/concern/love >>>>>AND it meshes with MY conscience. >>>>>BTW: (a quick aside) Lord Acton coined a Diction, which I rewrote (I’m > a >>>>>ghost and technical writer, freelance, and need more work, so …. >>>please >>>>>… ) … anyhow the revised version goes like this: The FALSE belief >>>that >>>>>one person can or does have POWER over another person or persons … >>>>>CORRUPTS the person holding said belief … And, if said belief > includes >>>>>ABSOLUTE POWER, its holder IS CORRUPTED ABSOLUTELY !!! >>>>>(2) Do respect my privacy, as if it were you own most heart held >>>possession. >>>>>I have no idea what you all can find out about me, (but I have a clue >>>from >>>>>some of your anti-spammers’ recent posts) … I haven’t the skill to >>>even >>>>>try to hide or confuse what my OS (win98) or news reader (NewsRover) >>>makes >>>>>available to you. So I just have to trust you from the get-go, I hope >>>you’re >>>>>up to it. >>>>>I know that almost all of the above is ‘ground rules’ instead of ‘on >>>topic’ >>>>>… but I HAD to say it (I am scared, vulnerable, confused and alone >>>except >>>>>for my cat) … NOW: do I understand correctly that questions of a >>>>>medical/tech nature should be made to AHD and supportive/social items >>>should >>>>>be posted to ASD ??? Then what’s to be posted to MHD? >>>>>My sister is type 2, 10 days ago, she fed me lavishly, I downed about 3 >>>>>cokes, ice cream sandwiches for desert… the about an hour later said >>>"I >>>>>think you are diabetic, here, let me test you." Worst part was she had >>>to >>>>>explain a lot of things, especially what 475 mg/dL means and what > normal >>>is >>>>>supposed to be. Honestly, I didn’t go into denial, but I did pull my >>>head in >>>>>and re-evaluate REALITY and incidentally myself image for several days. >>>>>I am male, 54′, 260 lbs, Caucasian (is race a factor? – there: my first >>>>>question), after that first stick I’ve had a low reading of 145 once > (it >>>had >>>>>to be false … I’ve since learned that squeezing the finger tip to get >>>the >>>>>blood out puts out more plasma and gives false low reading) and a high >>>of >>>>>375. in the last 18 hrs: 269, 281, 294, 364, 335, 294, 248, 231, & 240. >>>>>yesterday a high of 338 2 hrs after breakfast, and a low of 221 before >>>>>dinner, the rest all over in between (ave 260) … the 3 days before >>>>>slightly higher but getting generally lower, with some spikes. about 8+ >>>>>sticks a day. eat a little of this … see what happens … eat a > little >>>of >>>>>that … see what happens … try to keep each 2 hr meal under about 15 >>>>>carbs, no raw sugars/starches, up to about 200 calories (x12/day = > about >>>>>2400+/-) reading a lot of labels and looking a lot of things up. my #s >>>>>indicate to me that I’m in serious trouble and I hope and pray that I >>>got >>>>>the wake up call in time. >>>>>passing no ketones, but passing 100-1000 mg/dL glucose about 6 times a >>>day >>>>>(no pattern to the up/down). I have always drank at least a gallon of >>>water >>>>>a day, do a pass a lot of water. I don’t seem to be particularly >>>continually >>>>>thirsty … tested that … lots of saliva after 6 hours with no > liquid. >>>>>Switched to weak Lipton green tea with 1oz lemon juice per 1/2 gal >>>(that’s >>>>>my drinking jug size), no sweetener/no sugar, (conscience or intuition >>>and

… read more »

Response:

> > What does your doctor say? What Rxs did s/he give? > I guess the following wasn’t explicit enough … > I am very poor, have not been diagnosed, and do not want to be diagnosed > until I can find some insurance. > Therefore, I clarify: (1) I don’t have a doctor. (2) I haven’t been > diagnosed. (3) I have not been Rx’ed.

I encourage you to check with your local teaching hospital and see what kind of programs they have. I was poor and uninsured when I had cancer, so I know these programs are out there. (I’m assuming that you’re a single man with no dependents, and not eligible for most state/federal programs. Might check into state/federal help anyway!) I don’t want to scare the crap out of you, but your numbers are too high to continue without some sort of medical intervention. No, you’re not going to drop dead tomorrow, and you’re not guaranteeing yourself future misery, but it is best to get treatment as soon as possible. It sounds as though you are working hard on your own, but it sounds as though you need some medical help. In the meantime, you might consider cutting out bread, sugared soda, beer, crackers, etc – any food with a high carbohydrate content until you get medical attention. Please do ask any teaching hospital in your area what kind of programs they have. > And your BP should be a little lower; it is recommended that diabetics > have lower BP than "normals." > Thank you for the suggestion.. How low should it be, ideally? What would be > a good way to get it there?

i’m sorry, I don’t remember the exact numbers, except that mine is below it (I’ve always had low BP). — "Did Father shoot him? I will eat Grandfather for dinner." – Helen Keller, on learning of the death of her grandfather

Response:

> (1) Do try to have some compassion for a unique individual, (me), and > even though I may be totally misguided … YOU do NOT have the RIGHT > to dictate to me … so unless you believe in coercion … please > don’t tell me that I SHOULD or MUST or OUGHT etc. to do ‘this’ or > ‘that’ … I will NOT respond

If you don’t wish to benefit from the accumulated knowledge of the groups, why bother asking for assistance here? As someone who shares a great deal in common with you (I’m also a writer, similar age, race, etc., etc.) my first reaction is that, rather than being a "private" person, you come across as simply being hard-headed. So, the first thing I’ll say to you that will rub you the wrong way is, GET THEE TO A DOCTOR! Can’t afford it? Check out one of the innumerable studies being conducted by the major pharmacos, e.g. http://www.diabetes-study.com/About.asp, http://www.slu.edu/readstory/newslink/3131, http://diabetes.niddk.nih.gov/statistics/index.htm > If you try too hard … I will tell > NewsRover to block you without even informing you. I DO respond to > logical argument and reasoning and gentle persuasion, when I perceive > it is done with caring/affection/concern/love AND it meshes with MY > conscience.

I suggest you quickly develop a thicker skin, this is USENET, not your very own support group. > I know that almost all of the above is ‘ground rules’ instead of ‘on > topic’ … but I HAD to say it (I am scared, vulnerable, confused and > alone except for my cat) … NOW: do I understand correctly that > questions of a medical/tech nature should be made to AHD and > supportive/social items should be posted to ASD ??? Then what’s to be > posted to MHD?

MHD appears to be more for technical issues than AHD, and is visited by many Type Is with insulin, syringe, pump questions. > My sister is type 2, 10 days ago, she fed me lavishly, I downed about > 3 cokes, ice cream sandwiches for desert… the about an hour later > said "I think you are diabetic, here, let me test you." Worst part > was she had to explain a lot of things, especially what 475 mg/dL > means and what normal is supposed to be. Honestly, I didn’t go into > denial, but I did pull my head in and re-evaluate REALITY and > incidentally myself image for several days.

A reading of 475 AT ANY TIME is sufficient to diagnose that you’re a diabetic! You need to seek professional help. Don’t give us a bunch of excuses why you can’t or won’t see a physician, you NEED to be evaluated in order to determine if you require some medications to assist your gaining control of your BG levels. > have been taking wide and detailed vitamins, minerals, and herbals > every day for almost ever (several months at a time, skip a month ( > reality check ), go at it again … ) stopped now to eliminate any > effect they may have been having (one was ginseng, and a little of > EVERYTHING conceivable else, but not an excessive amount of anything)

A total waste of time and money at thid point. All you’re doing is changing the flowers in the vases on the Titanic! > have mild sleeping apnea … better since I quit smoking about 3 > months ago … cold turkey … had been smoking slightly less than a > pack a day of ultra lights for about 25 yrs.

Good for you! Wish I could quit. > minor itching in between toes and bottom of toes and balls of feet > … using Micatin and Scholl foot powder to eliminate the possibility > of it being athelete’s foot ( I hope it is ). will know in another 2 > weeks according to the directions.

But, it could be something worse than athlete’s foot, in which case waiting two weeks is sheer folly. > And I > acknowledge that I neeeed help: at least information and ideas and > options, and hopefully acquaintances and friends.

Some of us believe in "tough love", you won’t always get responses wrapped in a ribbon and tied in a bow. Find a teaching hospital, sit yourself in the waiting room and SEE A DOCTOR! Regards, James the Elder

Response:

You don’t get it he HAS to see a doctor There are NO excuses I am not about to give any advice to anyone who won’t seek medical advice.  It is the same as malpractice. Unlike you brits, LOTS of us in the US do not have insurance – it is expensive to see a doctor, and we may have trouble paying for it. BUT, he has to.  cutting out the crap he is scarfing down would help pay for it. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Yeah but you must agree that he asked for help, he knows he needs to see a > doctor, that wasn’t the issue that he asked for help with. I can understand > that, and we know nothing of his background nor where he comes from …… > so that being the case, offering as much help as possible would seem to be > the way forward >It doesn’t matter >If you wait till SOMEDAY >then you die >Almost NO ONE at his age can get or afford non-group insurance., and >group insurance is not underwritten >Why should he expect to get insurance tomorrow, and not today. >>I get the impression that the reason he’s not done that is because he > needs >>insurance to pay for the treatment, if you go to the doctor and get >>diagnosed before you get insurance then you won’t get insurance, or not > at >>the same price! However that doesn’t make it any less important that he > gets >>to see a doctor as soon as he can. >>>cc’d by email >>>sigh >>>You are on a newsgroup – you better get a little less shy if you want to >>> get the most out of it >>>1) You HAVE to go to a doctor – no choice. >>>a) check your local papers for ads for programs looking for diabetics >>>to study – they will provide, at a minimum,  free medical visits and > labs >>>b) Check your local health department and the local hospitals. >>>SOMETIMES there are free, or very low cost diabetic screening programs. >>>c) look for both on the internet >>>2) Stop wasting your money and endangering yourself with phony "herbs" >>>and "supplements" You can NOT afford those scams, and, they are usually >>>bad for diabetics. >>>3) After you get a prescription, either post on the NG, or email me >>>privately.  I know LOTS of ways to get cheap or free meds. – you are NOT >>>the only uninsured person in the US. >>>4) Good thing stopping smoking >>>5) You HAVE to have regular eye exams, from an opthomologist – or, one >>>day SOON you will wake up blind.  Again  there are lots of options which >>>might get you free, or reduced cost care. >>>People who get flamed on the groups are people who come on to a >>>newsgroup of long time diabetics and TELL us what WE should do, because >>>they (newbie, troll, scammers, or spammers) know EVERYTHING. (or want to >>>get rich off of us) >>>People who try and learn will usually get a number of points of view and >>>possibly useful answers. >>>We can be a bit rough – and you may run into trolls like the Chung, the >>>Watchtroll, or one of Momma Betty’s Aspartame trolls, and spammers like >>>herb pushers, BioDeath, Manatech, or their ilk – but they pass.  But, we >>>hope you stay, and that we can be of help to you >>>>I waded thru all the postings that my server had stored for AHD and ASD >>and >>>>MHD … close to 2000 … mostly from ASD … took me 4 days, almost >>>>nonstop, sticks about every 2 hrs, eating something as often  ,,, was >>like >>>>being inside a cross between a cloths dryer and a kaleidoscope !!! I’m >>spin >>>>dizzy and comfrused. >>>>I hope it is OK to post this to all three (this one time) … As I will >>>>probably lurk in all of them. I don’t plan on revealing much about >>myself as >>>>I am very poor, have not been diagnosed, and do not want to be > diagnosed >>>>until I can find some insurance. (and if I have learned anything from >>the >>>>past 4 days about SOME of the people in here … what I just said is >>enough >>>>to start a Dresden style fire storm along the lines of YOU MUST GO TO A >>>>DOC… etc;.) Before you even start … >>>>(1) Do try to have some compassion for a unique individual, (me), and >>even >>>>though I may be totally misguided … YOU do NOT have the RIGHT to >>dictate >>>>to me … so unless you believe in coercion … please don’t tell me >>that I >>>>SHOULD or MUST or OUGHT etc. to do ‘this’ or ‘that’ … I will NOT >>respond >>>>… If you try too hard … I will tell NewsRover to block you without >>even >>>>informing you. I DO respond to logical argument and reasoning and > gentle >>>>persuasion, when I perceive it is done with >>caring/affection/concern/love >>>>AND it meshes with MY conscience. >>>>BTW: (a quick aside) Lord Acton coined a Diction, which I rewrote (I’m > a >>>>ghost and technical writer, freelance, and need more work, so …. >>please >>>>… ) … anyhow the revised version goes like this: The FALSE belief >>that >>>>one person can or does have POWER over another person or persons … >>>>CORRUPTS the person holding said belief … And, if said belief > includes >>>>ABSOLUTE POWER, its holder IS CORRUPTED ABSOLUTELY !!! >>>>(2) Do respect my privacy, as if it were you own most heart held >>possession. >>>>I have no idea what you all can find out about me, (but I have a clue >>from >>>>some of your anti-spammers’ recent posts) … I haven’t the skill to >>even >>>>try to hide or confuse what my OS (win98) or news reader (NewsRover) >>makes >>>>available to you. So I just have to trust you from the get-go, I hope >>you’re >>>>up to it. >>>>I know that almost all of the above is ‘ground rules’ instead of ‘on >>topic’ >>>>… but I HAD to say it (I am scared, vulnerable, confused and alone >>except >>>>for my cat) … NOW: do I understand correctly that questions of a >>>>medical/tech nature should be made to AHD and supportive/social items >>should >>>>be posted to ASD ??? Then what’s to be posted to MHD? >>>>My sister is type 2, 10 days ago, she fed me lavishly, I downed about 3 >>>>cokes, ice cream sandwiches for desert… the about an hour later said >>"I >>>>think you are diabetic, here, let me test you." Worst part was she had >>to >>>>explain a lot of things, especially what 475 mg/dL means and what > normal >>is >>>>supposed to be. Honestly, I didn’t go into denial, but I did pull my >>head in >>>>and re-evaluate REALITY and incidentally myself image for several days. >>>>I am male, 54′, 260 lbs, Caucasian (is race a factor? – there: my first >>>>question), after that first stick I’ve had a low reading of 145 once > (it >>had >>>>to be false … I’ve since learned that squeezing the finger tip to get >>the >>>>blood out puts out more plasma and gives false low reading) and a high >>of >>>>375. in the last 18 hrs: 269, 281, 294, 364, 335, 294, 248, 231, & 240. >>>>yesterday a high of 338 2 hrs after breakfast, and a low of 221 before >>>>dinner, the rest all over in between (ave 260) … the 3 days before >>>>slightly higher but getting generally lower, with some spikes. about 8+ >>>>sticks a day. eat a little of this … see what happens … eat a > little >>of >>>>that … see what happens … try to keep each 2 hr meal under about 15 >>>>carbs, no raw sugars/starches, up to about 200 calories (x12/day = > about >>>>2400+/-) reading a lot of labels and looking a lot of things up. my #s >>>>indicate to me that I’m in serious trouble and I hope and pray that I >>got >>>>the wake up call in time. >>>>passing no ketones, but passing 100-1000 mg/dL glucose about 6 times a >>day >>>>(no pattern to the up/down). I have always drank at least a gallon of >>water >>>>a day, do a pass a lot of water. I don’t seem to be particularly >>continually >>>>thirsty … tested that … lots of saliva after 6 hours with no > liquid. >>>>Switched to weak Lipton green tea with 1oz lemon juice per 1/2 gal >>(that’s >>>>my drinking jug size), no sweetener/no sugar, (conscience or intuition >>and >>>>slim facts moved me to this switch to green tea as a >>>>antioxidant/diuretic/purgative??? I’ll try it for a while, unless you >>all >>>>give me reason otherwise)… does anybody know if Lipton green tea has >>>>caffeine? how much? (would check with Lipton if was day) (is caffeine >>>>contraindicated?) >>>>have been taking wide and detailed vitamins, minerals, and herbals > every >>day >>>>for almost ever (several months at a time, skip a month ( reality >>check ), >>>>go at it again … ) stopped now to eliminate any effect they may have >>been >>>>having (one was ginseng, and a little of EVERYTHING conceivable else, >>but >>>>not an excessive amount of anything) … >>>>BP mid 130s over mid 80s almost al the time, been that way since I was >>19 >>>>and in college … at that time was diagnosed (unofficially) >>hypoglycemia >>>>after a 4 hr glucose tolerance test. not severe, friend doc said eat >>every 3 >>>>hours until I started registering hunger on a regular basis. bought a >>alarm >>>>wrist watch and ate every 3 hrs for couple of years. gradually lost >>interest

… read more »

Response:

Yeah but you must agree that he asked for help, he knows he needs to see a doctor, that wasn’t the issue that he asked for help with. I can understand that, and we know nothing of his background nor where he comes from …… so that being the case, offering as much help as possible would seem to be the way forward

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> It doesn’t matter > If you wait till SOMEDAY > then you die > Almost NO ONE at his age can get or afford non-group insurance., and > group insurance is not underwritten > Why should he expect to get insurance tomorrow, and not today. > I get the impression that the reason he’s not done that is because he needs > insurance to pay for the treatment, if you go to the doctor and get > diagnosed before you get insurance then you won’t get insurance, or not at > the same price! However that doesn’t make it any less important that he gets > to see a doctor as soon as he can. >>cc’d by email >>sigh >>You are on a newsgroup – you better get a little less shy if you want to >>  get the most out of it >>1) You HAVE to go to a doctor – no choice. >>a) check your local papers for ads for programs looking for diabetics >>to study – they will provide, at a minimum,  free medical visits and labs >>b) Check your local health department and the local hospitals. >>SOMETIMES there are free, or very low cost diabetic screening programs. >>c) look for both on the internet >>2) Stop wasting your money and endangering yourself with phony "herbs" >>and "supplements" You can NOT afford those scams, and, they are usually >>bad for diabetics. >>3) After you get a prescription, either post on the NG, or email me >>privately.  I know LOTS of ways to get cheap or free meds. – you are NOT >>the only uninsured person in the US. >>4) Good thing stopping smoking >>5) You HAVE to have regular eye exams, from an opthomologist – or, one >>day SOON you will wake up blind.  Again  there are lots of options which >>might get you free, or reduced cost care. >>People who get flamed on the groups are people who come on to a >>newsgroup of long time diabetics and TELL us what WE should do, because >>they (newbie, troll, scammers, or spammers) know EVERYTHING. (or want to >>get rich off of us) >>People who try and learn will usually get a number of points of view and >>possibly useful answers. >>We can be a bit rough – and you may run into trolls like the Chung, the >>Watchtroll, or one of Momma Betty’s Aspartame trolls, and spammers like >>herb pushers, BioDeath, Manatech, or their ilk – but they pass.  But, we >>hope you stay, and that we can be of help to you >>>I waded thru all the postings that my server had stored for AHD and ASD > and >>>MHD … close to 2000 … mostly from ASD … took me 4 days, almost >>>nonstop, sticks about every 2 hrs, eating something as often  ,,, was > like >>>being inside a cross between a cloths dryer and a kaleidoscope !!! I’m > spin >>>dizzy and comfrused. >>>I hope it is OK to post this to all three (this one time) … As I will >>>probably lurk in all of them. I don’t plan on revealing much about > myself as >>>I am very poor, have not been diagnosed, and do not want to be diagnosed >>>until I can find some insurance. (and if I have learned anything from > the >>>past 4 days about SOME of the people in here … what I just said is > enough >>>to start a Dresden style fire storm along the lines of YOU MUST GO TO A >>>DOC… etc;.) Before you even start … >>>(1) Do try to have some compassion for a unique individual, (me), and > even >>>though I may be totally misguided … YOU do NOT have the RIGHT to > dictate >>>to me … so unless you believe in coercion … please don’t tell me > that I >>>SHOULD or MUST or OUGHT etc. to do ‘this’ or ‘that’ … I will NOT > respond >>>… If you try too hard … I will tell NewsRover to block you without > even >>>informing you. I DO respond to logical argument and reasoning and gentle >>>persuasion, when I perceive it is done with > caring/affection/concern/love >>>AND it meshes with MY conscience. >>>BTW: (a quick aside) Lord Acton coined a Diction, which I rewrote (I’m a >>>ghost and technical writer, freelance, and need more work, so …. > please >>>… ) … anyhow the revised version goes like this: The FALSE belief > that >>>one person can or does have POWER over another person or persons … >>>CORRUPTS the person holding said belief … And, if said belief includes >>>ABSOLUTE POWER, its holder IS CORRUPTED ABSOLUTELY !!! >>>(2) Do respect my privacy, as if it were you own most heart held > possession. >>>I have no idea what you all can find out about me, (but I have a clue > from >>>some of your anti-spammers’ recent posts) … I haven’t the skill to > even >>>try to hide or confuse what my OS (win98) or news reader (NewsRover) > makes >>>available to you. So I just have to trust you from the get-go, I hope > you’re >>>up to it. >>>I know that almost all of the above is ‘ground rules’ instead of ‘on > topic’ >>>… but I HAD to say it (I am scared, vulnerable, confused and alone > except >>>for my cat) … NOW: do I understand correctly that questions of a >>>medical/tech nature should be made to AHD and supportive/social items > should >>>be posted to ASD ??? Then what’s to be posted to MHD? >>>My sister is type 2, 10 days ago, she fed me lavishly, I downed about 3 >>>cokes, ice cream sandwiches for desert… the about an hour later said > "I >>>think you are diabetic, here, let me test you." Worst part was she had > to >>>explain a lot of things, especially what 475 mg/dL means and what normal > is >>>supposed to be. Honestly, I didn’t go into denial, but I did pull my > head in >>>and re-evaluate REALITY and incidentally myself image for several days. >>>I am male, 54′, 260 lbs, Caucasian (is race a factor? – there: my first >>>question), after that first stick I’ve had a low reading of 145 once (it > had >>>to be false … I’ve since learned that squeezing the finger tip to get > the >>>blood out puts out more plasma and gives false low reading) and a high > of >>>375. in the last 18 hrs: 269, 281, 294, 364, 335, 294, 248, 231, & 240. >>>yesterday a high of 338 2 hrs after breakfast, and a low of 221 before >>>dinner, the rest all over in between (ave 260) … the 3 days before >>>slightly higher but getting generally lower, with some spikes. about 8+ >>>sticks a day. eat a little of this … see what happens … eat a little > of >>>that … see what happens … try to keep each 2 hr meal under about 15 >>>carbs, no raw sugars/starches, up to about 200 calories (x12/day = about >>>2400+/-) reading a lot of labels and looking a lot of things up. my #s >>>indicate to me that I’m in serious trouble and I hope and pray that I > got >>>the wake up call in time. >>>passing no ketones, but passing 100-1000 mg/dL glucose about 6 times a > day >>>(no pattern to the up/down). I have always drank at least a gallon of > water >>>a day, do a pass a lot of water. I don’t seem to be particularly > continually >>>thirsty … tested that … lots of saliva after 6 hours with no liquid. >>>Switched to weak Lipton green tea with 1oz lemon juice per 1/2 gal > (that’s >>>my drinking jug size), no sweetener/no sugar, (conscience or intuition > and >>>slim facts moved me to this switch to green tea as a >>>antioxidant/diuretic/purgative??? I’ll try it for a while, unless you > all >>>give me reason otherwise)… does anybody know if Lipton green tea has >>>caffeine? how much? (would check with Lipton if was day) (is caffeine >>>contraindicated?) >>>have been taking wide and detailed vitamins, minerals, and herbals every > day >>>for almost ever (several months at a time, skip a month ( reality > check ), >>>go at it again … ) stopped now to eliminate any effect they may have > been >>>having (one was ginseng, and a little of EVERYTHING conceivable else, > but >>>not an excessive amount of anything) … >>>BP mid 130s over mid 80s almost al the time, been that way since I was > 19 >>>and in college … at that time was diagnosed (unofficially) > hypoglycemia >>>after a 4 hr glucose tolerance test. not severe, friend doc said eat > every 3 >>>hours until I started registering hunger on a regular basis. bought a > alarm >>>wrist watch and ate every 3 hrs for couple of years. gradually lost > interest >>>as all seemed normal. night sweats mild and seldom … >>>have mild sleeping apnea … better since I quit smoking about 3 months > ago >>>… cold turkey … had been smoking slightly less than a pack a day of >>>ultra lights for about 25 yrs. >>>minor itching in between toes and bottom of toes and balls of feet … > using >>>Micatin and Scholl foot powder to eliminate the possibility of it being >>>athelete’s foot ( I hope it is ). will know in another 2 weeks according > to >>>the directions. >>>no change in vision in years, far sighted slightly, not quite mild >>>astigmatism

… read more »

Response:

It doesn’t matter If you wait till SOMEDAY then you die Almost NO ONE at his age can get or afford non-group insurance., and group insurance is not underwritten Why should he expect to get insurance tomorrow, and not today. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I get the impression that the reason he’s not done that is because he needs > insurance to pay for the treatment, if you go to the doctor and get > diagnosed before you get insurance then you won’t get insurance, or not at > the same price! However that doesn’t make it any less important that he gets > to see a doctor as soon as he can. >cc’d by email >sigh >You are on a newsgroup – you better get a little less shy if you want to >  get the most out of it >1) You HAVE to go to a doctor – no choice. >a) check your local papers for ads for programs looking for diabetics >to study – they will provide, at a minimum,  free medical visits and labs >b) Check your local health department and the local hospitals. >SOMETIMES there are free, or very low cost diabetic screening programs. >c) look for both on the internet >2) Stop wasting your money and endangering yourself with phony "herbs" >and "supplements" You can NOT afford those scams, and, they are usually >bad for diabetics. >3) After you get a prescription, either post on the NG, or email me >privately.  I know LOTS of ways to get cheap or free meds. – you are NOT >the only uninsured person in the US. >4) Good thing stopping smoking >5) You HAVE to have regular eye exams, from an opthomologist – or, one >day SOON you will wake up blind.  Again  there are lots of options which >might get you free, or reduced cost care. >People who get flamed on the groups are people who come on to a >newsgroup of long time diabetics and TELL us what WE should do, because >they (newbie, troll, scammers, or spammers) know EVERYTHING. (or want to >get rich off of us) >People who try and learn will usually get a number of points of view and >possibly useful answers. >We can be a bit rough – and you may run into trolls like the Chung, the >Watchtroll, or one of Momma Betty’s Aspartame trolls, and spammers like >herb pushers, BioDeath, Manatech, or their ilk – but they pass.  But, we >hope you stay, and that we can be of help to you >>I waded thru all the postings that my server had stored for AHD and ASD > and >>MHD … close to 2000 … mostly from ASD … took me 4 days, almost >>nonstop, sticks about every 2 hrs, eating something as often  ,,, was > like >>being inside a cross between a cloths dryer and a kaleidoscope !!! I’m > spin >>dizzy and comfrused. >>I hope it is OK to post this to all three (this one time) … As I will >>probably lurk in all of them. I don’t plan on revealing much about > myself as >>I am very poor, have not been diagnosed, and do not want to be diagnosed >>until I can find some insurance. (and if I have learned anything from > the >>past 4 days about SOME of the people in here … what I just said is > enough >>to start a Dresden style fire storm along the lines of YOU MUST GO TO A >>DOC… etc;.) Before you even start … >>(1) Do try to have some compassion for a unique individual, (me), and > even >>though I may be totally misguided … YOU do NOT have the RIGHT to > dictate >>to me … so unless you believe in coercion … please don’t tell me > that I >>SHOULD or MUST or OUGHT etc. to do ‘this’ or ‘that’ … I will NOT > respond >>… If you try too hard … I will tell NewsRover to block you without > even >>informing you. I DO respond to logical argument and reasoning and gentle >>persuasion, when I perceive it is done with > caring/affection/concern/love >>AND it meshes with MY conscience. >>BTW: (a quick aside) Lord Acton coined a Diction, which I rewrote (I’m a >>ghost and technical writer, freelance, and need more work, so …. > please >>… ) … anyhow the revised version goes like this: The FALSE belief > that >>one person can or does have POWER over another person or persons … >>CORRUPTS the person holding said belief … And, if said belief includes >>ABSOLUTE POWER, its holder IS CORRUPTED ABSOLUTELY !!! >>(2) Do respect my privacy, as if it were you own most heart held > possession. >>I have no idea what you all can find out about me, (but I have a clue > from >>some of your anti-spammers’ recent posts) … I haven’t the skill to > even >>try to hide or confuse what my OS (win98) or news reader (NewsRover) > makes >>available to you. So I just have to trust you from the get-go, I hope > you’re >>up to it. >>I know that almost all of the above is ‘ground rules’ instead of ‘on > topic’ >>… but I HAD to say it (I am scared, vulnerable, confused and alone > except >>for my cat) … NOW: do I understand correctly that questions of a >>medical/tech nature should be made to AHD and supportive/social items > should >>be posted to ASD ??? Then what’s to be posted to MHD? >>My sister is type 2, 10 days ago, she fed me lavishly, I downed about 3 >>cokes, ice cream sandwiches for desert… the about an hour later said > "I >>think you are diabetic, here, let me test you." Worst part was she had > to >>explain a lot of things, especially what 475 mg/dL means and what normal > is >>supposed to be. Honestly, I didn’t go into denial, but I did pull my > head in >>and re-evaluate REALITY and incidentally myself image for several days. >>I am male, 54′, 260 lbs, Caucasian (is race a factor? – there: my first >>question), after that first stick I’ve had a low reading of 145 once (it > had >>to be false … I’ve since learned that squeezing the finger tip to get > the >>blood out puts out more plasma and gives false low reading) and a high > of >>375. in the last 18 hrs: 269, 281, 294, 364, 335, 294, 248, 231, & 240. >>yesterday a high of 338 2 hrs after breakfast, and a low of 221 before >>dinner, the rest all over in between (ave 260) … the 3 days before >>slightly higher but getting generally lower, with some spikes. about 8+ >>sticks a day. eat a little of this … see what happens … eat a little > of >>that … see what happens … try to keep each 2 hr meal under about 15 >>carbs, no raw sugars/starches, up to about 200 calories (x12/day = about >>2400+/-) reading a lot of labels and looking a lot of things up. my #s >>indicate to me that I’m in serious trouble and I hope and pray that I > got >>the wake up call in time. >>passing no ketones, but passing 100-1000 mg/dL glucose about 6 times a > day >>(no pattern to the up/down). I have always drank at least a gallon of > water >>a day, do a pass a lot of water. I don’t seem to be particularly > continually >>thirsty … tested that … lots of saliva after 6 hours with no liquid. >>Switched to weak Lipton green tea with 1oz lemon juice per 1/2 gal > (that’s >>my drinking jug size), no sweetener/no sugar, (conscience or intuition > and >>slim facts moved me to this switch to green tea as a >>antioxidant/diuretic/purgative??? I’ll try it for a while, unless you > all >>give me reason otherwise)… does anybody know if Lipton green tea has >>caffeine? how much? (would check with Lipton if was day) (is caffeine >>contraindicated?) >>have been taking wide and detailed vitamins, minerals, and herbals every > day >>for almost ever (several months at a time, skip a month ( reality > check ), >>go at it again … ) stopped now to eliminate any effect they may have > been >>having (one was ginseng, and a little of EVERYTHING conceivable else, > but >>not an excessive amount of anything) … >>BP mid 130s over mid 80s almost al the time, been that way since I was > 19 >>and in college … at that time was diagnosed (unofficially) > hypoglycemia >>after a 4 hr glucose tolerance test. not severe, friend doc said eat > every 3 >>hours until I started registering hunger on a regular basis. bought a > alarm >>wrist watch and ate every 3 hrs for couple of years. gradually lost > interest >>as all seemed normal. night sweats mild and seldom … >>have mild sleeping apnea … better since I quit smoking about 3 months > ago >>… cold turkey … had been smoking slightly less than a pack a day of >>ultra lights for about 25 yrs. >>minor itching in between toes and bottom of toes and balls of feet … > using >>Micatin and Scholl foot powder to eliminate the possibility of it being >>athelete’s foot ( I hope it is ). will know in another 2 weeks according > to >>the directions. >>no change in vision in years, far sighted slightly, not quite mild >>astigmatism almost vertical axis (from reading in the dark as a kid, I’m >>told ???), >>Last full physical about 3 yrs ago was told all well except what I was > doing >>to myself : A. lose weight (285 at that time), B. stop smoking, C. > exercise. >>Now (started a week ago) 15 minutes a day on a stair stepper (make sure > Bg >>is less that 300) reasonable starting workout, sweat at 5 min. winded at > 15. >>will work it up to 30 min 6 days/week. and  now at lowest toughness > level of >>3 will wind up at toughest level and max min in about 6 months. >>Only been testing daily and often since Bayer sent me a new meter which >>arrived on the 17th. Sis had an old Bayer lancet machine and meter but > the >>meter didn’t work right and Bayer was nice enough to send me a new newer > one >>and instructions (sis didn’t have them) and a case and a box of disks > and a >>bag of

… read more »

Response:

I get the impression that the reason he’s not done that is because he needs insurance to pay for the treatment, if you go to the doctor and get diagnosed before you get insurance then you won’t get insurance, or not at the same price! However that doesn’t make it any less important that he gets to see a doctor as soon as he can.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> cc’d by email > sigh > You are on a newsgroup – you better get a little less shy if you want to >   get the most out of it > 1) You HAVE to go to a doctor – no choice. > a) check your local papers for ads for programs looking for diabetics > to study – they will provide, at a minimum,  free medical visits and labs > b) Check your local health department and the local hospitals. > SOMETIMES there are free, or very low cost diabetic screening programs. > c) look for both on the internet > 2) Stop wasting your money and endangering yourself with phony "herbs" > and "supplements" You can NOT afford those scams, and, they are usually > bad for diabetics. > 3) After you get a prescription, either post on the NG, or email me > privately.  I know LOTS of ways to get cheap or free meds. – you are NOT > the only uninsured person in the US. > 4) Good thing stopping smoking > 5) You HAVE to have regular eye exams, from an opthomologist – or, one > day SOON you will wake up blind.  Again  there are lots of options which > might get you free, or reduced cost care. > People who get flamed on the groups are people who come on to a > newsgroup of long time diabetics and TELL us what WE should do, because > they (newbie, troll, scammers, or spammers) know EVERYTHING. (or want to > get rich off of us) > People who try and learn will usually get a number of points of view and > possibly useful answers. > We can be a bit rough – and you may run into trolls like the Chung, the > Watchtroll, or one of Momma Betty’s Aspartame trolls, and spammers like > herb pushers, BioDeath, Manatech, or their ilk – but they pass.  But, we > hope you stay, and that we can be of help to you > I waded thru all the postings that my server had stored for AHD and ASD and > MHD … close to 2000 … mostly from ASD … took me 4 days, almost > nonstop, sticks about every 2 hrs, eating something as often  ,,, was like > being inside a cross between a cloths dryer and a kaleidoscope !!! I’m spin > dizzy and comfrused. > I hope it is OK to post this to all three (this one time) … As I will > probably lurk in all of them. I don’t plan on revealing much about myself as > I am very poor, have not been diagnosed, and do not want to be diagnosed > until I can find some insurance. (and if I have learned anything from the > past 4 days about SOME of the people in here … what I just said is enough > to start a Dresden style fire storm along the lines of YOU MUST GO TO A > DOC… etc;.) Before you even start … > (1) Do try to have some compassion for a unique individual, (me), and even > though I may be totally misguided … YOU do NOT have the RIGHT to dictate > to me … so unless you believe in coercion … please don’t tell me that I > SHOULD or MUST or OUGHT etc. to do ‘this’ or ‘that’ … I will NOT respond > … If you try too hard … I will tell NewsRover to block you without even > informing you. I DO respond to logical argument and reasoning and gentle > persuasion, when I perceive it is done with

caring/affection/concern/love – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> AND it meshes with MY conscience. > BTW: (a quick aside) Lord Acton coined a Diction, which I rewrote (I’m a > ghost and technical writer, freelance, and need more work, so …. please > … ) … anyhow the revised version goes like this: The FALSE belief that > one person can or does have POWER over another person or persons … > CORRUPTS the person holding said belief … And, if said belief includes > ABSOLUTE POWER, its holder IS CORRUPTED ABSOLUTELY !!! > (2) Do respect my privacy, as if it were you own most heart held possession. > I have no idea what you all can find out about me, (but I have a clue from > some of your anti-spammers’ recent posts) … I haven’t the skill to even > try to hide or confuse what my OS (win98) or news reader (NewsRover) makes > available to you. So I just have to trust you from the get-go, I hope you’re > up to it. > I know that almost all of the above is ‘ground rules’ instead of ‘on topic’ > … but I HAD to say it (I am scared, vulnerable, confused and alone except > for my cat) … NOW: do I understand correctly that questions of a > medical/tech nature should be made to AHD and supportive/social items should > be posted to ASD ??? Then what’s to be posted to MHD? > My sister is type 2, 10 days ago, she fed me lavishly, I downed about 3 > cokes, ice cream sandwiches for desert… the about an hour later said "I > think you are diabetic, here, let me test you." Worst part was she had to > explain a lot of things, especially what 475 mg/dL means and what normal is > supposed to be. Honestly, I didn’t go into denial, but I did pull my head in > and re-evaluate REALITY and incidentally myself image for several days. > I am male, 54′, 260 lbs, Caucasian (is race a factor? – there: my first > question), after that first stick I’ve had a low reading of 145 once (it had > to be false … I’ve since learned that squeezing the finger tip to get the > blood out puts out more plasma and gives false low reading) and a high of > 375. in the last 18 hrs: 269, 281, 294, 364, 335, 294, 248, 231, & 240. > yesterday a high of 338 2 hrs after breakfast, and a low of 221 before > dinner, the rest all over in between (ave 260) … the 3 days before > slightly higher but getting generally lower, with some spikes. about 8+ > sticks a day. eat a little of this … see what happens … eat a little of > that … see what happens … try to keep each 2 hr meal under about 15 > carbs, no raw sugars/starches, up to about 200 calories (x12/day = about > 2400+/-) reading a lot of labels and looking a lot of things up. my #s > indicate to me that I’m in serious trouble and I hope and pray that I got > the wake up call in time. > passing no ketones, but passing 100-1000 mg/dL glucose about 6 times a day > (no pattern to the up/down). I have always drank at least a gallon of water > a day, do a pass a lot of water. I don’t seem to be particularly continually > thirsty … tested that … lots of saliva after 6 hours with no liquid. > Switched to weak Lipton green tea with 1oz lemon juice per 1/2 gal (that’s > my drinking jug size), no sweetener/no sugar, (conscience or intuition and > slim facts moved me to this switch to green tea as a > antioxidant/diuretic/purgative??? I’ll try it for a while, unless you all > give me reason otherwise)… does anybody know if Lipton green tea has > caffeine? how much? (would check with Lipton if was day) (is caffeine > contraindicated?) > have been taking wide and detailed vitamins, minerals, and herbals every day > for almost ever (several months at a time, skip a month ( reality check ), > go at it again … ) stopped now to eliminate any effect they may have been > having (one was ginseng, and a little of EVERYTHING conceivable else, but > not an excessive amount of anything) … > BP mid 130s over mid 80s almost al the time, been that way since I was 19 > and in college … at that time was diagnosed (unofficially) hypoglycemia > after a 4 hr glucose tolerance test. not severe, friend doc said eat every 3 > hours until I started registering hunger on a regular basis. bought a alarm > wrist watch and ate every 3 hrs for couple of years. gradually lost interest > as all seemed normal. night sweats mild and seldom … > have mild sleeping apnea … better since I quit smoking about 3 months ago > … cold turkey … had been smoking slightly less than a pack a day of > ultra lights for about 25 yrs. > minor itching in between toes and bottom of toes and balls of feet … using > Micatin and Scholl foot powder to eliminate the possibility of it being > athelete’s foot ( I hope it is ). will know in another 2 weeks according to > the directions. > no change in vision in years, far sighted slightly, not quite mild > astigmatism almost vertical axis (from reading in the dark as a kid, I’m > told ???), > Last full physical about 3 yrs ago was told all well except what I was doing > to myself : A. lose weight (285 at that time), B. stop smoking, C. exercise. > Now (started a week ago) 15 minutes a day on a stair stepper (make sure Bg > is less that 300) reasonable starting workout, sweat at 5 min. winded at 15. > will work it up to 30 min 6 days/week. and  now at lowest toughness level of > 3 will wind up at toughest level and max min in about 6 months. > Only been testing daily and often since Bayer sent me a new meter which > arrived on the 17th. Sis had an old Bayer lancet machine and meter but the > meter didn’t work right and Bayer was nice enough to send me a new newer one > and instructions (sis didn’t have them) and a case and a box of disks and a > bag of lancets and calibrating solution. the latter three have not arrived > yet. So I am using disks (test strips) that are a year expired, but checking > against sis’s other type of meter with current strips seems to indicate that > I’m getting reasonably accurate readings. it will be nice to calibrate the > meter and run a current disk thru it. How I’m going to afford disks when I > run out I don’t know … but I will find a way !!! Yes, the 3 day rethink > exited with among other things RESOLVE.  And I acknowledge that I neeeed > help: at least information and ideas and options, and hopefully > acquaintances

… read more »

Response:

> Thoughts, questions, suggestions, comments welcome.

What does your doctor say? What Rxs did s/he give? And your BP should be a little lower; it is recommended that diabetics have lower BP than "normals." — "Did Father shoot him? I will eat Grandfather for dinner." – Helen Keller, on learning of the death of her grandfather

Response:

> What does your doctor say? What Rxs did s/he give?

I guess the following wasn’t explicit enough … I am very poor, have not been diagnosed, and do not want to be diagnosed until I can find some insurance. Therefore, I clarify: (1) I don’t have a doctor. (2) I haven’t been diagnosed. (3) I have not been Rx’ed. > And your BP should be a little lower; it is recommended that diabetics > have lower BP than "normals."

Thank you for the suggestion.. How low should it be, ideally? What would be a good way to get it there? I’m hoping that as I increase my exercise slowly and stick to it, that BP will go down, but I have no idea how much that might help. ?? Losing weight, after I get my glucose #s into better shape might help BP as well. tnx quirque — whoever takes umbrage when none was intended … is a fool. whoever takes umbrage when it was intended … is a STUPID fool.

Response:

> If you think you are diabetic type 2, then have a look on the net for > metabolic syndrome aka syndrome x.  It is a combination of problems > most type 2 diabetics start out with – higher BP, high cholesterol, > higher BG etc.

I will. BWT is there some way I can test for/monitor my own cholesterol? >The common treatment for BP in diabetics is an ACE > inhibitor as it offers some degree of protection to the kidneys.

I suppose ACE is a prescription item… Are over the counter diuretics (Doan’s or Dewitts) OK for diabetics if BP only needs to come down a little? >The best protection for kidneys is of course lowering the bg’s > dramatically to near normal, kidneys tend to go belly up rather easily > in an out of control diabetic.  Here is an interesting article on BP > in diabetics: > http://www.americanheart.org/presenter.jhtml?identifier=3015383

Thanks, good article, also signed up for ‘heart of diabetes’. > Do you qualify for Medicare by the way?

No. Thanks again, Quirque — whoever takes umbrage when none was intended … is a fool. whoever takes umbrage when it was intended … is a STUPID fool.

Response:

cc’d by email sigh You are on a newsgroup – you better get a little less shy if you want to   get the most out of it 1) You HAVE to go to a doctor – no choice.         a) check your local papers for ads for programs looking for diabetics to study – they will provide, at a minimum,  free medical visits and labs         b) Check your local health department and the local hospitals. SOMETIMES there are free, or very low cost diabetic screening programs.         c) look for both on the internet 2) Stop wasting your money and endangering yourself with phony "herbs" and "supplements" You can NOT afford those scams, and, they are usually bad for diabetics. 3) After you get a prescription, either post on the NG, or email me privately.  I know LOTS of ways to get cheap or free meds. – you are NOT the only uninsured person in the US. 4) Good thing stopping smoking 5) You HAVE to have regular eye exams, from an opthomologist – or, one day SOON you will wake up blind.  Again  there are lots of options which might get you free, or reduced cost care. People who get flamed on the groups are people who come on to a newsgroup of long time diabetics and TELL us what WE should do, because they (newbie, troll, scammers, or spammers) know EVERYTHING. (or want to get rich off of us) People who try and learn will usually get a number of points of view and possibly useful answers. We can be a bit rough – and you may run into trolls like the Chung, the Watchtroll, or one of Momma Betty’s Aspartame trolls, and spammers like herb pushers, BioDeath, Manatech, or their ilk – but they pass.  But, we hope you stay, and that we can be of help to you – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I waded thru all the postings that my server had stored for AHD and ASD and > MHD … close to 2000 … mostly from ASD … took me 4 days, almost > nonstop, sticks about every 2 hrs, eating something as often  ,,, was like > being inside a cross between a cloths dryer and a kaleidoscope !!! I’m spin > dizzy and comfrused. > I hope it is OK to post this to all three (this one time) … As I will > probably lurk in all of them. I don’t plan on revealing much about myself as > I am very poor, have not been diagnosed, and do not want to be diagnosed > until I can find some insurance. (and if I have learned anything from the > past 4 days about SOME of the people in here … what I just said is enough > to start a Dresden style fire storm along the lines of YOU MUST GO TO A > DOC… etc;.) Before you even start … > (1) Do try to have some compassion for a unique individual, (me), and even > though I may be totally misguided … YOU do NOT have the RIGHT to dictate > to me … so unless you believe in coercion … please don’t tell me that I > SHOULD or MUST or OUGHT etc. to do ‘this’ or ‘that’ … I will NOT respond > … If you try too hard … I will tell NewsRover to block you without even > informing you. I DO respond to logical argument and reasoning and gentle > persuasion, when I perceive it is done with caring/affection/concern/love > AND it meshes with MY conscience. > BTW: (a quick aside) Lord Acton coined a Diction, which I rewrote (I’m a > ghost and technical writer, freelance, and need more work, so …. please > … ) … anyhow the revised version goes like this: The FALSE belief that > one person can or does have POWER over another person or persons … > CORRUPTS the person holding said belief … And, if said belief includes > ABSOLUTE POWER, its holder IS CORRUPTED ABSOLUTELY !!! > (2) Do respect my privacy, as if it were you own most heart held possession. > I have no idea what you all can find out about me, (but I have a clue from > some of your anti-spammers’ recent posts) … I haven’t the skill to even > try to hide or confuse what my OS (win98) or news reader (NewsRover) makes > available to you. So I just have to trust you from the get-go, I hope you’re > up to it. > I know that almost all of the above is ‘ground rules’ instead of ‘on topic’ > … but I HAD to say it (I am scared, vulnerable, confused and alone except > for my cat) … NOW: do I understand correctly that questions of a > medical/tech nature should be made to AHD and supportive/social items should > be posted to ASD ??? Then what’s to be posted to MHD? > My sister is type 2, 10 days ago, she fed me lavishly, I downed about 3 > cokes, ice cream sandwiches for desert… the about an hour later said "I > think you are diabetic, here, let me test you." Worst part was she had to > explain a lot of things, especially what 475 mg/dL means and what normal is > supposed to be. Honestly, I didn’t go into denial, but I did pull my head in > and re-evaluate REALITY and incidentally myself image for several days. > I am male, 54′, 260 lbs, Caucasian (is race a factor? – there: my first > question), after that first stick I’ve had a low reading of 145 once (it had > to be false … I’ve since learned that squeezing the finger tip to get the > blood out puts out more plasma and gives false low reading) and a high of > 375. in the last 18 hrs: 269, 281, 294, 364, 335, 294, 248, 231, & 240. > yesterday a high of 338 2 hrs after breakfast, and a low of 221 before > dinner, the rest all over in between (ave 260) … the 3 days before > slightly higher but getting generally lower, with some spikes. about 8+ > sticks a day. eat a little of this … see what happens … eat a little of > that … see what happens … try to keep each 2 hr meal under about 15 > carbs, no raw sugars/starches, up to about 200 calories (x12/day = about > 2400+/-) reading a lot of labels and looking a lot of things up. my #s > indicate to me that I’m in serious trouble and I hope and pray that I got > the wake up call in time. > passing no ketones, but passing 100-1000 mg/dL glucose about 6 times a day > (no pattern to the up/down). I have always drank at least a gallon of water > a day, do a pass a lot of water. I don’t seem to be particularly continually > thirsty … tested that … lots of saliva after 6 hours with no liquid. > Switched to weak Lipton green tea with 1oz lemon juice per 1/2 gal (that’s > my drinking jug size), no sweetener/no sugar, (conscience or intuition and > slim facts moved me to this switch to green tea as a > antioxidant/diuretic/purgative??? I’ll try it for a while, unless you all > give me reason otherwise)… does anybody know if Lipton green tea has > caffeine? how much? (would check with Lipton if was day) (is caffeine > contraindicated?) > have been taking wide and detailed vitamins, minerals, and herbals every day > for almost ever (several months at a time, skip a month ( reality check ), > go at it again … ) stopped now to eliminate any effect they may have been > having (one was ginseng, and a little of EVERYTHING conceivable else, but > not an excessive amount of anything) … > BP mid 130s over mid 80s almost al the time, been that way since I was 19 > and in college … at that time was diagnosed (unofficially) hypoglycemia > after a 4 hr glucose tolerance test. not severe, friend doc said eat every 3 > hours until I started registering hunger on a regular basis. bought a alarm > wrist watch and ate every 3 hrs for couple of years. gradually lost interest > as all seemed normal. night sweats mild and seldom … > have mild sleeping apnea … better since I quit smoking about 3 months ago > … cold turkey … had been smoking slightly less than a pack a day of > ultra lights for about 25 yrs. > minor itching in between toes and bottom of toes and balls of feet … using > Micatin and Scholl foot powder to eliminate the possibility of it being > athelete’s foot ( I hope it is ). will know in another 2 weeks according to > the directions. > no change in vision in years, far sighted slightly, not quite mild > astigmatism almost vertical axis (from reading in the dark as a kid, I’m > told ???), > Last full physical about 3 yrs ago was told all well except what I was doing > to myself : A. lose weight (285 at that time), B. stop smoking, C. exercise. > Now (started a week ago) 15 minutes a day on a stair stepper (make sure Bg > is less that 300) reasonable starting workout, sweat at 5 min. winded at 15. > will work it up to 30 min 6 days/week. and  now at lowest toughness level of > 3 will wind up at toughest level and max min in about 6 months. > Only been testing daily and often since Bayer sent me a new meter which > arrived on the 17th. Sis had an old Bayer lancet machine and meter but the > meter didn’t work right and Bayer was nice enough to send me a new newer one > and instructions (sis didn’t have them) and a case and a box of disks and a > bag of lancets and calibrating solution. the latter three have not arrived > yet. So I am using disks (test strips) that are a year expired, but checking > against sis’s other type of meter with current strips seems to indicate that > I’m getting reasonably accurate readings. it will be nice to calibrate the > meter and run a current disk thru it. How I’m going to afford disks when I > run out I don’t know … but I will find a way !!! Yes, the 3 day rethink > exited with among other things RESOLVE.  And I acknowledge that I neeeed > help: at least information and ideas and options, and hopefully > acquaintances and friends. > Gotta plan on the exercise. Trying not to stress  (BP would indicate I’m > reasonably OK) I think that I am in glucose toxicity. I think that I need to > get my #s down to ?normal? or near, to get out of toxicity, so that the > numbers will mean something more real, so that I quit passing Gl. so that I > can get to a place where I can build a more permanent plan. Please correct > me if I’m wrong. Thoughts, questions, suggestions, comments welcome. Oh, > BTW, I’ve got thick skin literally and figuratively … sticks barely hurt > and I hope you can’t push any of my ‘emote’ buttons. > thanks in advance, > quique

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> What does your doctor say? What Rxs did s/he give? > I guess the following wasn’t explicit enough … > I am very poor, have not been diagnosed, and do not want to be > diagnosed until I can find some insurance. > Therefore, I clarify: (1) I don’t have a doctor. (2) I haven’t been > diagnosed. (3) I have not been Rx’ed. > And your BP should be a little lower; it is recommended that > diabetics have lower BP than "normals." > Thank you for the suggestion.. How low should it be, ideally? What > would be a good way to get it there? > I’m hoping that as I increase my exercise slowly and stick to it, > that BP will go down, but I have no idea how much that might help. ?? > Losing weight, after I get my glucose #s into better shape might help > BP as well.

If you think you are diabetic type 2, then have a look on the net for metabolic syndrome aka syndrome x.  It is a combination of problems most type 2 diabetics start out with – higher bp, high cholesterol, higher bg’s etc.  The common treatment for bp in diabetics is an ACE inhibitor as it offers some degree of protection to the kidneys.  The best protection for kidneys is of course lowering the bg’s dramatically to near normal, kidneys tend to go belly up rather easily in an out of control diabetic.  Here is an interesting article on BP in diabetics: http://www.americanheart.org/presenter.jhtml?identifier=3015383 Do you qualify for medicare by the way?

Response:

I waded thru all the postings that my server had stored for AHD and ASD and MHD … close to 2000 … mostly from ASD … took me 4 days, almost nonstop, sticks about every 2 hrs, eating something as often  ,,, was like being inside a cross between a cloths dryer and a kaleidoscope !!! I’m spin dizzy and comfrused. I hope it is OK to post this to all three (this one time) … As I will probably lurk in all of them. I don’t plan on revealing much about myself as I am very poor, have not been diagnosed, and do not want to be diagnosed until I can find some insurance. (and if I have learned anything from the past 4 days about SOME of the people in here … what I just said is enough to start a Dresden style fire storm along the lines of YOU MUST GO TO A DOC… etc;.) Before you even start … (1) Do try to have some compassion for a unique individual, (me), and even though I may be totally misguided … YOU do NOT have the RIGHT to dictate to me … so unless you believe in coercion … please don’t tell me that I SHOULD or MUST or OUGHT etc. to do ‘this’ or ‘that’ … I will NOT respond … If you try too hard … I will tell NewsRover to block you without even informing you. I DO respond to logical argument and reasoning and gentle persuasion, when I perceive it is done with caring/affection/concern/love AND it meshes with MY conscience. BTW: (a quick aside) Lord Acton coined a Diction, which I rewrote (I’m a ghost and technical writer, freelance, and need more work, so …. please … ) … anyhow the revised version goes like this: The FALSE belief that one person can or does have POWER over another person or persons … CORRUPTS the person holding said belief … And, if said belief includes ABSOLUTE POWER, its holder IS CORRUPTED ABSOLUTELY !!! (2) Do respect my privacy, as if it were you own most heart held possession. I have no idea what you all can find out about me, (but I have a clue from some of your anti-spammers’ recent posts) … I haven’t the skill to even try to hide or confuse what my OS (win98) or news reader (NewsRover) makes available to you. So I just have to trust you from the get-go, I hope you’re up to it. I know that almost all of the above is ‘ground rules’ instead of ‘on topic’ … but I HAD to say it (I am scared, vulnerable, confused and alone except for my cat) … NOW: do I understand correctly that questions of a medical/tech nature should be made to AHD and supportive/social items should be posted to ASD ??? Then what’s to be posted to MHD? My sister is type 2, 10 days ago, she fed me lavishly, I downed about 3 cokes, ice cream sandwiches for desert… the about an hour later said "I think you are diabetic, here, let me test you." Worst part was she had to explain a lot of things, especially what 475 mg/dL means and what normal is supposed to be. Honestly, I didn’t go into denial, but I did pull my head in and re-evaluate REALITY and incidentally myself image for several days. I am male, 54′, 260 lbs, Caucasian (is race a factor? – there: my first question), after that first stick I’ve had a low reading of 145 once (it had to be false … I’ve since learned that squeezing the finger tip to get the blood out puts out more plasma and gives false low reading) and a high of 375. in the last 18 hrs: 269, 281, 294, 364, 335, 294, 248, 231, & 240. yesterday a high of 338 2 hrs after breakfast, and a low of 221 before dinner, the rest all over in between (ave 260) … the 3 days before slightly higher but getting generally lower, with some spikes. about 8+ sticks a day. eat a little of this … see what happens … eat a little of that … see what happens … try to keep each 2 hr meal under about 15 carbs, no raw sugars/starches, up to about 200 calories (x12/day = about 2400+/-) reading a lot of labels and looking a lot of things up. my #s indicate to me that I’m in serious trouble and I hope and pray that I got the wake up call in time. passing no ketones, but passing 100-1000 mg/dL glucose about 6 times a day (no pattern to the up/down). I have always drank at least a gallon of water a day, do a pass a lot of water. I don’t seem to be particularly continually thirsty … tested that … lots of saliva after 6 hours with no liquid. Switched to weak Lipton green tea with 1oz lemon juice per 1/2 gal (that’s my drinking jug size), no sweetener/no sugar, (conscience or intuition and slim facts moved me to this switch to green tea as a antioxidant/diuretic/purgative??? I’ll try it for a while, unless you all give me reason otherwise)… does anybody know if Lipton green tea has caffeine? how much? (would check with Lipton if was day) (is caffeine contraindicated?) have been taking wide and detailed vitamins, minerals, and herbals every day for almost ever (several months at a time, skip a month ( reality check ), go at it again … ) stopped now to eliminate any effect they may have been having (one was ginseng, and a little of EVERYTHING conceivable else, but not an excessive amount of anything) … BP mid 130s over mid 80s almost al the time, been that way since I was 19 and in college … at that time was diagnosed (unofficially) hypoglycemia after a 4 hr glucose tolerance test. not severe, friend doc said eat every 3 hours until I started registering hunger on a regular basis. bought a alarm wrist watch and ate every 3 hrs for couple of years. gradually lost interest as all seemed normal. night sweats mild and seldom … have mild sleeping apnea … better since I quit smoking about 3 months ago … cold turkey … had been smoking slightly less than a pack a day of ultra lights for about 25 yrs. minor itching in between toes and bottom of toes and balls of feet … using Micatin and Scholl foot powder to eliminate the possibility of it being athelete’s foot ( I hope it is ). will know in another 2 weeks according to the directions. no change in vision in years, far sighted slightly, not quite mild astigmatism almost vertical axis (from reading in the dark as a kid, I’m told ???), Last full physical about 3 yrs ago was told all well except what I was doing to myself : A. lose weight (285 at that time), B. stop smoking, C. exercise. Now (started a week ago) 15 minutes a day on a stair stepper (make sure Bg is less that 300) reasonable starting workout, sweat at 5 min. winded at 15. will work it up to 30 min 6 days/week. and  now at lowest toughness level of 3 will wind up at toughest level and max min in about 6 months. Only been testing daily and often since Bayer sent me a new meter which arrived on the 17th. Sis had an old Bayer lancet machine and meter but the meter didn’t work right and Bayer was nice enough to send me a new newer one and instructions (sis didn’t have them) and a case and a box of disks and a bag of lancets and calibrating solution. the latter three have not arrived yet. So I am using disks (test strips) that are a year expired, but checking against sis’s other type of meter with current strips seems to indicate that I’m getting reasonably accurate readings. it will be nice to calibrate the meter and run a current disk thru it. How I’m going to afford disks when I run out I don’t know … but I will find a way !!! Yes, the 3 day rethink exited with among other things RESOLVE.  And I acknowledge that I neeeed help: at least information and ideas and options, and hopefully acquaintances and friends. Gotta plan on the exercise. Trying not to stress  (BP would indicate I’m reasonably OK) I think that I am in glucose toxicity. I think that I need to get my #s down to ?normal? or near, to get out of toxicity, so that the numbers will mean something more real, so that I quit passing Gl. so that I can get to a place where I can build a more permanent plan. Please correct me if I’m wrong. Thoughts, questions, suggestions, comments welcome. Oh, BTW, I’ve got thick skin literally and figuratively … sticks barely hurt and I hope you can’t push any of my ‘emote’ buttons. thanks in advance, quique

Response:

>Mack, >Thanks for the SITREP. I gather you’re in Norfolk. >When do they figure they’ll have the Midtown Tunnel back in business? >Regards, >James the Elder

last report not for another month and a half. Mack Type 1 since 1975 http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org http://www.insulin-pumpers.org  In tribute to the United States of America and the State  of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and  terrorism.

Response:

> last report not for another month and a half.

Geeze! Bet that’s making a LOT of commuters unhappy. And all for want of a bigger hammer! Regards, James the Elder

Response:

>> last report not for another month and a half. >Geeze! Bet that’s making a LOT of commuters unhappy. >And all for want of a bigger hammer! >Regards, >James the Elder

we found out the other day that the tunnel’s flood gates have not been tested or fully closed in over 2 years.  lack of proper maintenance may been a contributing factor. Mack Type 1 since 1975 http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org http://www.insulin-pumpers.org  In tribute to the United States of America and the State  of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and  terrorism.

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Halifax, NS was just hit very hard by Juan.

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Mack, Thanks for the SITREP. I gather you’re in Norfolk. When do they figure they’ll have the Midtown Tunnel back in business? Regards, James the Elder

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Mack, what a story!  When I hear tales such as yours I appreciate again just how fortunate we were.  Stay safe. — Best wishes Louise Type 2 since 2000, controlling by diet and exercise

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Any other Isabel survivors out there?  We didn’t do too badly.  We were >without power for 3 days and internet access for 4 days.  We lost probably >about $200 of food, but were able to save most of our meats.  No trees fell >on our house and no water or sewage damage.  Adjusting what I ate was a big >challenge.  I ate a lot of nuts and salads from a cooler.  We also had bad >water for a couple days, but we had enough bottled water to tide us over. >All in all a very scary storm, but I’m grateful we got through it with only >minor financial loss and inconvenience.   There are still some who don’t >have power yet. > I went to work from  9 am on Thursday until 9 am on Friday to provide > coverage for the storm.  At work we have a large campus.  To walk the > entire perimeter it takes 1 and 15 minutes without stopping.  This > includes the Rec. Island and the hiking trails.  We had several small > trees come down around the parking garage and day car center.  One of > the large trees about 3 stories tall was almost uprooted next to the > main building, even though it is hanging at a 15 degree angle now it > is still being supported by it’s root ball.  The hiking trails along > the river are impassible due to all the trees that came down.  The > Rec. Island only has a couple of branches down.  None of the buildings > suffered any damage.  We still haven’t found out why our small 100 KW > generator blew.  I was actually checking the fuel gauge when it > happened at 2 am and the shower of sparks was pretty un-nerving.  The > 400 KW generator made it through the night.  We had power back on at > the office some time Friday afternoon before I went back to work. > Shortly after losing power all over the city we had a report of a > tornado on the ground in my neighborhood.  Judging from the amount of > damage in my area I don’t think the report was accurate.  I was in > constant telephone contact with my other half who actually got the > night off and stayed home, even though the original plan was to be in > a secured government facility sharing space with marines and navy > personnel until the storm passed. > Normally my office runs on limited staff on Saturdays and is closed on > Sundays.  We changed that and opened for Sat and Sun operating hours > last Saturday.  We started flying in extra people from our home office > and other regional offices so we could have enough people in he field > processing claims as quickly as possible.  We quickly filled several > local hotels with our out of state employees and to help our local > employees we have been allowing them to come in and get ice, shower in > the fitness center and as always we allow them to bring their family > members into eat in our full service restaurant style cafeteria. > At my house we were without power for 3 days.  Lost a few things in > the fridge, nothing from the deep freezer (packed it in ice and kept > fresh ice in it until the power came back on.)  No damage to my home > or any of the trees in my yard.  Many within a 3 block radius did not > do as well.  Several had 2 or more trees fall on and come into their > homes.  One lady’s home is buried under 4 trees only one of which is > from her own yard.  My foster mom is still without power.  She lives > only a few blocks away on the other side of the high way that > separates our neighborhoods.  She’s been spending time here in the AC > but going home at night to keep an eye on her property.  I’ve been > keeping several large coolers filled with ice at her house and keeping > her supplied with fresh brewed Iced Tea and food.  Although many of > the local restaurants opened by Saturday or Sunday and have been > keeping longer hours to feed as many people as possible.  The local > christian church down the street from my house disappointed the entire > neighborhood when the preacher went door to door with a chain saw > asking people if they needed help cutting out any branches or trees > and then asking and I quote "how much money do you have to pay for > this?"  Some areas are still without power and some places were so > badly damaged by falling trees that they are literally unlivable.  One > of the local bridge/tunnels will be closed for up to 2 months because > the bridge workers waited too long to close the flood gates and the > tunnel flooded.  Those areas still without power are under curfew to > reduce crime and help stop the looting that started as soon as local > EMS/Police announced on the radio and TV that all services would be > suspended during the worst part of the storm.  I’ve given away all the > extra supplies I laid in for the storm, batteries, food, bottled > water, kerosene lights and other supplies. > Mack > Type 1 since 1975 > http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org > http://www.insulin-pumpers.org >  In tribute to the United States of America and the State >  of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and >  terrorism.

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>Any other Isabel survivors out there?  We didn’t do too badly.  We were >without power for 3 days and internet access for 4 days.  We lost probably >about $200 of food, but were able to save most of our meats.  No trees fell >on our house and no water or sewage damage.  Adjusting what I ate was a big >challenge.  I ate a lot of nuts and salads from a cooler.  We also had bad >water for a couple days, but we had enough bottled water to tide us over. >All in all a very scary storm, but I’m grateful we got through it with only >minor financial loss and inconvenience.   There are still some who don’t >have power yet.

I went to work from  9 am on Thursday until 9 am on Friday to provide coverage for the storm.  At work we have a large campus.  To walk the entire perimeter it takes 1 and 15 minutes without stopping.  This includes the Rec. Island and the hiking trails.  We had several small trees come down around the parking garage and day car center.  One of the large trees about 3 stories tall was almost uprooted next to the main building, even though it is hanging at a 15 degree angle now it is still being supported by it’s root ball.  The hiking trails along the river are impassible due to all the trees that came down.  The Rec. Island only has a couple of branches down.  None of the buildings suffered any damage.  We still haven’t found out why our small 100 KW generator blew.  I was actually checking the fuel gauge when it happened at 2 am and the shower of sparks was pretty un-nerving.  The 400 KW generator made it through the night.  We had power back on at the office some time Friday afternoon before I went back to work.   Shortly after losing power all over the city we had a report of a tornado on the ground in my neighborhood.  Judging from the amount of damage in my area I don’t think the report was accurate.  I was in constant telephone contact with my other half who actually got the night off and stayed home, even though the original plan was to be in a secured government facility sharing space with marines and navy personnel until the storm passed. Normally my office runs on limited staff on Saturdays and is closed on Sundays.  We changed that and opened for Sat and Sun operating hours last Saturday.  We started flying in extra people from our home office and other regional offices so we could have enough people in he field processing claims as quickly as possible.  We quickly filled several local hotels with our out of state employees and to help our local employees we have been allowing them to come in and get ice, shower in the fitness center and as always we allow them to bring their family members into eat in our full service restaurant style cafeteria. At my house we were without power for 3 days.  Lost a few things in the fridge, nothing from the deep freezer (packed it in ice and kept fresh ice in it until the power came back on.)  No damage to my home or any of the trees in my yard.  Many within a 3 block radius did not do as well.  Several had 2 or more trees fall on and come into their homes.  One lady’s home is buried under 4 trees only one of which is from her own yard.  My foster mom is still without power.  She lives only a few blocks away on the other side of the high way that separates our neighborhoods.  She’s been spending time here in the AC but going home at night to keep an eye on her property.  I’ve been keeping several large coolers filled with ice at her house and keeping her supplied with fresh brewed Iced Tea and food.  Although many of the local restaurants opened by Saturday or Sunday and have been keeping longer hours to feed as many people as possible.  The local christian church down the street from my house disappointed the entire neighborhood when the preacher went door to door with a chain saw asking people if they needed help cutting out any branches or trees and then asking and I quote "how much money do you have to pay for this?"  Some areas are still without power and some places were so badly damaged by falling trees that they are literally unlivable.  One of the local bridge/tunnels will be closed for up to 2 months because the bridge workers waited too long to close the flood gates and the tunnel flooded.  Those areas still without power are under curfew to reduce crime and help stop the looting that started as soon as local EMS/Police announced on the radio and TV that all services would be suspended during the worst part of the storm.  I’ve given away all the extra supplies I laid in for the storm, batteries, food, bottled water, kerosene lights and other supplies. Mack Type 1 since 1975 http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org http://www.insulin-pumpers.org  In tribute to the United States of America and the State  of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and  terrorism.

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This post not CC’d by email >Any other Isabel survivors out there?  We didn’t do too badly.  We were >without power for 3 days and internet access for 4 days.  We lost probably >about $200 of food, but were able to save most of our meats.  No trees fell >on our house and no water or sewage damage.  Adjusting what I ate was a big >challenge.  I ate a lot of nuts and salads from a cooler.  We also had bad >water for a couple days, but we had enough bottled water to tide us over. >All in all a very scary storm, but I’m grateful we got through it with only >minor financial loss and inconvenience.   There are still some who don’t >have power yet.

G’day G’day Folks,  Glad you came through it all so well. I’ll guess we’ll hear about the ones who didn’t fare so well later. The nuts were a smart idea. While nothing as dramatic has occurred here it is the Spring equinox and four transport lorries were over turned on open stretches of highway by the winds. Best wishes, especially for those as yet unaccounted for. — Quentin Grady       ^  ^  / New Zealand,       >#,#< [                     / /     "… and the blind dog was leading." http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin

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In todays newspaper, it stated that some power may not be back on for almost a month for some NC residents! I sympathize for the ones who had it rough with this storm. I recall Hugo in ‘89, and it came inland toward the Western part of NC. I live 45-50 miles from Charlotte. We only got a little wind off of Isabel. One thing I did see the day of Isabel, rather in the evening….it was a RAINBOW! Hadn’t seen one in a long time. My father seen it from the front porch and had me to see it. (no pot of gold though, at the end of it)….:( (LOL!!!) Kimberly Hedrick type 1, since 1974, at age 3.

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> Any other Isabel survivors out there?  We didn’t do too badly.  We were > without power for 3 days and internet access for 4 days.  We lost probably > about $200 of food, but were able to save most of our meats.  No trees fell > on our house and no water or sewage damage.  Adjusting what I ate was a big > challenge.  I ate a lot of nuts and salads from a cooler.  We also had bad > water for a couple days, but we had enough bottled water to tide us over. > All in all a very scary storm, but I’m grateful we got through it with only > minor financial loss and inconvenience.   There are still some who don’t > have power yet.

We were only slightly affected here in NY.  Had a power outage overnight, and some downed trees, but no real damage. — Type 2 http://users.bestweb.net/~jbove/

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We were without DSL for 14 hours!!! however two blocks west of us, and west for almost a mile from there still has no signs of power or traffic lights. We were prepared for flooding as we are sensitive to heavy rainfall, but got none. I cut down or trimmed all the trees near from the houses power, phone, and cable lines.  I think that the investment in a new pruning hook WELL paid for itself. The trees and vines had been so entangled that when I cut the largest tree down, it stayed hung up.  I had to trim it out of the lines with a 20′ pruning hook We had three trees down on the house last major storm (Floyd), so I guess the remaining ones were strong enough and had deep enough roots. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Any other Isabel survivors out there?  We didn’t do too badly.  We were > without power for 3 days and internet access for 4 days.  We lost probably > about $200 of food, but were able to save most of our meats.  No trees fell > on our house and no water or sewage damage.  Adjusting what I ate was a big > challenge.  I ate a lot of nuts and salads from a cooler.  We also had bad > water for a couple days, but we had enough bottled water to tide us over. > All in all a very scary storm, but I’m grateful we got through it with only > minor financial loss and inconvenience.   There are still some who don’t > have power yet. > — > Best wishes > Louise > Type 2 since 2000, controlling by diet and exercise

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Any other Isabel survivors out there?  We didn’t do too badly.  We were without power for 3 days and internet access for 4 days.  We lost probably about $200 of food, but were able to save most of our meats.  No trees fell on our house and no water or sewage damage.  Adjusting what I ate was a big challenge.  I ate a lot of nuts and salads from a cooler.  We also had bad water for a couple days, but we had enough bottled water to tide us over. All in all a very scary storm, but I’m grateful we got through it with only minor financial loss and inconvenience.   There are still some who don’t have power yet. — Best wishes Louise Type 2 since 2000, controlling by diet and exercise

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Glad to hear that there wasn’t any lasting physical damage. Welcome back, you only missed 5 or 6 flamewars, pretty average really, LOL. — t2_lurking geabbottATabbottandabbottDOTcom Do not mail to t2_lurking (auto-delete)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Any other Isabel survivors out there?  We didn’t do too badly.  We were > without power for 3 days and internet access for 4 days.  We lost probably > about $200 of food, but were able to save most of our meats.  No trees fell > on our house and no water or sewage damage.  Adjusting what I ate was a big > challenge.  I ate a lot of nuts and salads from a cooler.  We also had bad > water for a couple days, but we had enough bottled water to tide us over. > All in all a very scary storm, but I’m grateful we got through it with only > minor financial loss and inconvenience.   There are still some who don’t > have power yet. > — > Best wishes > Louise > Type 2 since 2000, controlling by diet and exercise

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Is this an ongoing dispute between these two?  At first blush, Budd seems to be taking extraordinary offense at what seems (and I could be wrong here!) some common sense suggestions.  What’s going on, folks? Long simmering feud or just today’s tiff? dave

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> Is this an ongoing dispute between these two?  At first blush, Budd > seems to be taking extraordinary offense at what seems (and I could be > wrong here!) some common sense suggestions.  What’s going on, folks? > Long simmering feud or just today’s tiff?

Tiff — Ronnie Ruff So shines a good deed in a weary world.                        –Willy Wonka– I pray for the power. To turn it around. I’m too old to die young. And too young to die now.           Warren Zevon 1980 http://www.livejournal.com/users/ronnie_in_dc

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Nope, not a long going feud. I’m normally an easy going guy. I was simply offended by his insensitive attitude towards those of us with both forms of Diabetes that are following the directives from our health care professionals, have extenuating circumstances that prohibit us from running 25 miles a day like some of us did in Army Basic, and are doing our utmost to stay as healthy as we can. His attitude struck me as not caring about any of that and his way was the only way TO A FULL CURE (caps for emphasis only) Besides, I had a D.I. in Basic (1970, Ft Leonard Wood, Mo.) that would have ripped him to shreds in a week. <VBG> My apologies to you, Dave. Budd – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Is this an ongoing dispute between these two?  At first blush, Budd > seems to be taking extraordinary offense at what seems (and I could be > wrong here!) some common sense suggestions.  What’s going on, folks? > Long simmering feud or just today’s tiff? > dave

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no need for any apology, Budd.  Thanks for responding to my query so I could put a frame of reference around the messages you two were posting.    It’s too bad that many of us (I’m guilty too) lose our compassion and decency when we communicate in this impersonal medium.  I doubt that you two would have the same bitter exchange were you face to face.  Or even if you were speaking via phone.  It’s like on the freeway, when someone accidentally cuts you off, you don’t think of them as a human being, but that "a**hole in that SUV cut me off.  Who the hell does he think he is??"  If you were walking in the mall and someone bumped into you, there would be "excuse me’s" uttered by both parties, because that other person is "real". Anyhow, I wish you well. There are DI’s that could rip anybody to shreds!  They eat young recruits for breakfast! dave – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Nope, not a long going feud. I’m normally an easy going guy. > I was simply offended by his insensitive attitude towards those of us > with both forms of Diabetes that are following the directives from our > health care professionals, have extenuating circumstances that prohibit > us from running 25 miles a day like some of us did in Army Basic, and > are doing our utmost to stay as healthy as we can. His attitude struck > me as not caring about any of that and his way was the only way TO A > FULL CURE (caps for emphasis only) > Besides, I had a D.I. in Basic (1970, Ft Leonard Wood, Mo.) that would > have ripped him to shreds in a week. <VBG> > My apologies to you, Dave. > Budd > Is this an ongoing dispute between these two?  At first blush, Budd > seems to be taking extraordinary offense at what seems (and I could be > wrong here!) some common sense suggestions.  What’s going on, folks? > Long simmering feud or just today’s tiff? > dave

Response:

> no need for any apology, Budd.

I felt it was needed. I’m not usually so aggressive towards those type of posts. > Thanks for responding to my query so I > could put a frame of reference around the messages you two were posting.

It’s nothing. Just my helpful side exerting itself again. > It’s too bad that many of us (I’m guilty too) lose our compassion and > decency when we communicate in this impersonal medium.  I doubt that you > two would have the same bitter exchange were you face to face.  Or even > if you were speaking via phone.  It’s like on the freeway, when someone > accidentally cuts you off, you don’t think of them as a human being, but > that "a**hole in that SUV cut me off.  Who the hell does he think he > is??"  If you were walking in the mall and someone bumped into you, > there would be "excuse me’s" uttered by both parties, because that other > person is "real".

What struck me wrong was the impersonal, everyone is exactly alike attitude. I am not he, he is not me, nor I you or … well, you get the idea. What works for one may not work for another, or as is commonly said here, "YMMV" > Anyhow, I wish you well.

Thank you. > There are DI’s that could rip anybody to shreds!  They eat young > recruits for breakfast!

<LOL> True, but the one DI I’m talking about took a 5′10", 222 lb tubby knocked his weight down to 140 in three weeks and then coached him thru a 5 min 48 second mile run after an emotional trauma of losing his Father in the seventh week of Basic, the fastest mile he’d ever run. And I never got to thank him for it. I guess it also bothered me that as a teen I had built my Polio weakened legs back up and in the process strengthened my heart enough to survive a total of eight heart attacks, seven of them in a three day period. No one in my family on either side has ever survived more than four. I just felt he doesn’t have a clue at all about what some of us have already been thru, what we have already achieved, and even what we have already conquered. Where does he get off telling me I need to do what he says? Who died and left him master of the human race? If he thinks that stuff is motivational, then he needs to learn more about the human spirit. I suggest working with the handicapped for a couple years. I’ve known some that could motivate a corpse with their enthusiasm. Sorry for the rant, but I feel better now. Budd

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Well, maybe you’re a little out of sorts and not feeling all that well after your operation. I think Dave understands that. Good on both of you. — Cheri > no need for any apology, Budd.

I felt it was needed. I’m not usually so aggressive towards those type – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->of posts.

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Cheri, I never was upset with Budd in the first place.  I posted the thread just to find out what was going on.  I certainty understand where he is coming from–makes sense once you get more of the picture. dave – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Well, maybe you’re a little out of sorts and not feeling all that well > after your operation. I think Dave understands that. Good on both of > you. > — > Cheri >>no need for any apology, Budd. > I felt it was needed. I’m not usually so aggressive towards those type >of posts.

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I’m sorry, but he did offend me. But I’d rather just drop the whole thing. Budd – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Well, maybe you’re a little out of sorts and not feeling all that well > after your operation. I think Dave understands that. Good on both of > you. > — > Cheri >>no need for any apology, Budd. > I felt it was needed. I’m not usually so aggressive towards those type >of posts.

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Yes , he almost definately was checking your kidneys , my girlfriend had the 24hr urine collection , for protein in urine – and is to have a kidney angioplasty- after they did a scan and other tests to find the problem . tim – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Hi Truly, > I have thought of you often and it is good to see you again. Welcome > back > I don’t know if you have read this or not but found it as I wanted to > help because I know having protein in the urine is one of the signs of > kidney damage. > http://www.kidneywdc.org/brochure_diabetes.cfm > I hope it helps but someone much wiser will be along to help. > Once again it is so nice to see you in the group again. > Diana > Hello old friends and new…it’s good to see you all again. > I’ve been working on getting my health back.  I had convinced myself >  that > by reading a.s.d and m.h.d I was treating my diabetes. As long as I >  *knew* > how to cope with diabetes I didn’t actually have to *do* anything >  about > it.  I’ve also known when to test to get the *right* readings on my > monitor. (14 day average = 112 – yup I’m doing good).  I had a few >  more > tricks to make myself look good ‘on paper’, but we’ll skip over >  those for > now. > Then, I started feeling bad.  So I read more here and on the www.  I >  was > still having trouble with the Read = Do equation.  And my feet >  started to > burn and ache – not ache – hurt, unrelentingly!  The foot doc put me >  in > compression stockings and on neurontin. On my own I added Evening >  Primrose > Oil (someone here recommended it – maybe Tony in Mexico).  I’ve >  since > stopped the Neurontin – the name gives me worry – too much like >  neutron – > and I read something bad about but I don’t remember what it was >  (more > denial – hey what does it matter that I don’t remember? I read it – >  that’s > what counts, right?) > The stockings and the EPO are working for me now. But they aren’t >  going to > heal what damage has already been done.  If it weren’t for hurting >  my foot > I’d kick myself in the ass – repeatedly. >  My mouth stayed so dry that i couldn’t talk at times because my >  tongue > would be stick to my teeth.  My dry mouth is a haven for bacteria >  and I > have to see a periodontist every month to try to save my bottom >  teeth. The > uppers are too far gone. I’ve lost 6 on the top already and my perio >  wants > my dentist to pull the rest of the to ones out because they are > contaminating the lowers. > So now I’m looking at dentures… [what the fuck was I thinking?] > There is a little good news…after hanging in around 6.4, 6.3 for a > couple of years my HbAlc came in at 5.9 this last time. > *I had to do one of those 24 urine collections. When my doc got the > results he summons me to office and prescribed  for protein in my >  urine – > I don’t know what that means – what it indicates – but I don’t think >  it’s > trival.  Anyone…? > Truly > T2

Response:

>Hello old friends and new…it’s good to see you all again.

It’s great to see you back, Truly I’m sorry you’ve had complications, but hopefully you can get some improvement with better control. I hope things look up for you from here on in……. Bev Remove the "SpamFree" for email, please.   Join us in the Diabetic-Talk Chatroom on UnderNet /server irc.undernet.org — /join #Diabetic-Talk More info: http://www.diabetic-talk.org/

Response:

Hi Truly, Good to see you posting again. I’m sorry that you’re going through this stuff, but it sounds like you’re back on track. Listen to your periodontist and have the top teeth pulled and get an upper denture, and do all you can to save the lowers because it’s so much easier to deal with dentures if you can manage to save the lowers. The uppers always fit much better than the lowers due to the palette suction holding them up. Trust me. Good luck. — Cheri – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Hello old friends and new…it’s good to see you all again. >I’ve been working on getting my health back.  I had convinced myself that >by reading a.s.d and m.h.d I was treating my diabetes. As long as I *knew* >how to cope with diabetes I didn’t actually have to *do* anything about >it.  I’ve also known when to test to get the *right* readings on my >monitor. (14 day average = 112 – yup I’m doing good).  I had a few more >tricks to make myself look good ‘on paper’, but we’ll skip over those for >now. >Then, I started feeling bad.  So I read more here and on the www.  I was >still having trouble with the Read = Do equation.  And my feet started to >burn and ache – not ache – hurt, unrelentingly!  The foot doc put me in >compression stockings and on neurontin. On my own I added Evening Primrose >Oil (someone here recommended it – maybe Tony in Mexico).  I’ve since >stopped the Neurontin – the name gives me worry – too much like neutron – >and I read something bad about but I don’t remember what it was (more >denial – hey what does it matter that I don’t remember? I read it – that’s >what counts, right?) >The stockings and the EPO are working for me now. But they aren’t going to >heal what damage has already been done.  If it weren’t for hurting my foot >I’d kick myself in the ass – repeatedly. > My mouth stayed so dry that i couldn’t talk at times because my tongue >would be stick to my teeth.  My dry mouth is a haven for bacteria and I >have to see a periodontist every month to try to save my bottom teeth. The >uppers are too far gone. I’ve lost 6 on the top already and my perio wants >my dentist to pull the rest of the to ones out because they are >contaminating the lowers. >So now I’m looking at dentures… [what the fuck was I thinking?] >There is a little good news…after hanging in around 6.4, 6.3 for a >couple of years my HbAlc came in at 5.9 this last time. >*I had to do one of those 24 urine collections. When my doc got the >results he summons me to office and prescribed  for protein in my urine – >I don’t know what that means – what it indicates – but I don’t think it’s >trival.  Anyone…? >Truly >T2

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Hi Truly, I have thought of you often and it is good to see you again. Welcome back I don’t know if you have read this or not but found it as I wanted to help because I know having protein in the urine is one of the signs of kidney damage. http://www.kidneywdc.org/brochure_diabetes.cfm I hope it helps but someone much wiser will be along to help. Once again it is so nice to see you in the group again. Diana

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hello old friends and new…it’s good to see you all again. > I’ve been working on getting my health back.  I had convinced myself that > by reading a.s.d and m.h.d I was treating my diabetes. As long as I *knew* > how to cope with diabetes I didn’t actually have to *do* anything about > it.  I’ve also known when to test to get the *right* readings on my > monitor. (14 day average = 112 – yup I’m doing good).  I had a few more > tricks to make myself look good ‘on paper’, but we’ll skip over those for > now. > Then, I started feeling bad.  So I read more here and on the www.  I was > still having trouble with the Read = Do equation.  And my feet started to > burn and ache – not ache – hurt, unrelentingly!  The foot doc put me in > compression stockings and on neurontin. On my own I added Evening Primrose > Oil (someone here recommended it – maybe Tony in Mexico).  I’ve since > stopped the Neurontin – the name gives me worry – too much like neutron – > and I read something bad about but I don’t remember what it was (more > denial – hey what does it matter that I don’t remember? I read it – that’s > what counts, right?) > The stockings and the EPO are working for me now. But they aren’t going to > heal what damage has already been done.  If it weren’t for hurting my foot > I’d kick myself in the ass – repeatedly. >  My mouth stayed so dry that i couldn’t talk at times because my tongue > would be stick to my teeth.  My dry mouth is a haven for bacteria and I > have to see a periodontist every month to try to save my bottom teeth. The > uppers are too far gone. I’ve lost 6 on the top already and my perio wants > my dentist to pull the rest of the to ones out because they are > contaminating the lowers. > So now I’m looking at dentures… [what the fuck was I thinking?] > There is a little good news…after hanging in around 6.4, 6.3 for a > couple of years my HbAlc came in at 5.9 this last time. > *I had to do one of those 24 urine collections. When my doc got the > results he summons me to office and prescribed  for protein in my urine – > I don’t know what that means – what it indicates – but I don’t think it’s > trival.  Anyone…? > Truly > T2

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Question:

> NO, cooking herbs are usually used in small quanitits.  The only herbs I > use in any quanity are mint, sativa,  and oregano.  The rest are in > small bottles

Have you ever heard of menthol?   It comes from mint.   Oil of Oregano is being used as a natural antibiotic.    Quantities may differ for different applications. Cooking herbs are often used in medicinal ways.   Plants have effects, some good, some bad, some in ways that taste good and some in medicinal ways. Thinking otherwise is not knowing the facts. But as far as I know there aren’t any herbs that cure diabetes, so we are all just batting our gums here.

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Ah but you are. The subject we are talking about is a cooking herb being used as a med. Or is it a medical herb being used while cooking? Sleepy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >cc’d by email >I am not talking about COOKING herbs >>This post not CC’d by email >>>cc’d by email >>>Stay away from Fenugrek – and all "herbs" and "supplement" > I think that is way too blanket a statement. Some people would think > that it is unhealthy to cook with parsley, sage, rosemary, and thyme. > Also, I take two different supplements per day. A multi-vitamin, and > fish oil. I don’t see anything dangerous about either. > Sleepy > Support bacteria. They’re the only culture some people have

Support bacteria. They’re the only culture some people have

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NO, cooking herbs are usually used in small quanitits.  The only herbs I use in any quanity are mint, sativa,  and oregano.  The rest are in small bottles – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Ah but you are. The subject we are talking about is a cooking herb > being used as a med. Or is it a medical herb being used while cooking? > Sleepy >cc’d by email >I am not talking about COOKING herbs >>>This post not CC’d by email >>>>cc’d by email >>>>Stay away from Fenugrek – and all "herbs" and "supplement" >>I think that is way too blanket a statement. Some people would think >>that it is unhealthy to cook with parsley, sage, rosemary, and thyme. >>Also, I take two different supplements per day. A multi-vitamin, and >>fish oil. I don’t see anything dangerous about either. >>Sleepy >>Support bacteria. They’re the only culture some people have > Support bacteria. They’re the only culture some people have

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> cc’d by email > I am not talking about COOKING herbs

Many of those have medicinal effects also. Recently someone sent me an article indicating sage might be effective for alzheimers disease, knowing that my mother in law has this.   I wouldn’t dream of taking a chance in giving her anything unproven, even something we use in cooking like sage. I have since heard that sage oil can be poisonous! Herbs have real effects, and some are dangerous.   Many herbs we use in cooking were originally intended to preserve foods or to mask unpleasant flavors and odors but we continue to use them for taste alone nowadays. — Evelyn "Since everything is but an apparition, perfect in being what it is, having nothing to do with good or bad, acceptance or rejection, one may well burst into laughter."    -Longchenpa – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>This post not CC’d by email >>>cc’d by email >>>Stay away from Fenugrek – and all "herbs" and "supplement" > I think that is way too blanket a statement. Some people would think > that it is unhealthy to cook with parsley, sage, rosemary, and thyme. > Also, I take two different supplements per day. A multi-vitamin, and > fish oil. I don’t see anything dangerous about either. > Sleepy > Support bacteria. They’re the only culture some people have

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> As far as I know, the only good use for anything named > "wort", is to > make beer out of it. > Sleepy

I’ll drink to that… LOL  BJ

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > People are free to use what they want.  I don’t use these > uncontrolled products.  When young I had trouble several > times listening to the lore. I thought some items worked > but when I discontinued them it made no difference. All > in my mind. > It is you money and your life, so I can not tell you what to > do. > So many lazy people want your money.  Stay up night figuring > a way to get it.  The "biggies" drugs are very costly but you > do get something for you money.    Spammers do not care about > your > health but care about your hard earned money.   A few > will be back trying to sell a cure for the problem they cause, > then trying to sell your survivors a tombstone for you. > A few Docs may be in the same category. >                                                Guy >> Has anyone heard of Fenugreek Seed and its possible glycemic >> control properties? >> My vitamin store suggests this herb may help control blood >> sugar levels, however, that was the extent of their >> recommendation. Commets please. Thanks >> Charles > Vitamin Store? BJ

I’m still wondering what a Vitamin Store is?  :-) BJ

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cc’d by email I am not talking about COOKING herbs – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->This post not CC’d by email >>cc’d by email >>Stay away from Fenugrek – and all "herbs" and "supplement" > I think that is way too blanket a statement. Some people would think > that it is unhealthy to cook with parsley, sage, rosemary, and thyme. > Also, I take two different supplements per day. A multi-vitamin, and > fish oil. I don’t see anything dangerous about either. > Sleepy > Support bacteria. They’re the only culture some people have

Response:

This post not CC’d by email >cc’d by email >Well Quenton >We are in agreement on a lot of this >1) The stuff appears to affect BG.

G’day G’day Ted,  In the amounts I take the effect is slight. I most certainly would not rely on it as a substitute for the Diamicron subscribed by my GP. >2) It is extremely difficult to know what you are getting.

Also true.  Supplements I buy come from a registered compounding pharmacist. >There is an additional point I would make in regard to many active drugs >sold as "herbs" >That is that we do not KNOW what the effective agent(s) are, what the >effective dosages are, and what the counterindications are,

I think we both agree over herbs.  Many of them are sold either as standardised extracts or unstandardized.  As you say, for many of them the effective agents are unknown.  Worse than that when not standardised there is the matter of variation in potency with the time when they were harvested, variations in growing conditions due to climatic conditions, length of storage, temperature and humidity during storage.  Put simply there are a lot of variables. >Also, in the US in particular, the FDA has no jurisdiction over "herbs" >and "supplements" so they make sure that a package of lettuce contains >lettuce, and weighs what it says, and meats cleanliness standards, and… >But not "herbal" or "supplement"  They could be selling you ground rat >hair, and calling it anything they want.

They could.  Australia and New Zealand differ markedly in the degree of regulation.  Australia has tight regulation and New Zealand doesn’t. We really do depend on the reputation of the company selling the supplements.   Now that might seem pretty irrelevant say to people living in England, Canada or the USA but there are lessons to be learnt from the PAM pharmaceuticals experience in Australia. The over the counter med that caused people to hallucinate and want to jump out of aeroplanes was NOT a herb and it was NOT a supplement.  It was an over the counter travel calm medication … the sort of thing that presumably would come under the FDA description of a drug. >People HAVE died from taking Fenugrek.  As far as I know, only infants, >but I have not done exhaustive research.

You might well be right.  A retarded boy died of epsom salts given as a laxative when regularly given many times the adult dose.  People die of asprin.  People have even committed suicide with asprin. >As for curry powder, since it is sold as a food, it IS subject to FDA >inspection and standards.  Fenugrek is WAY down the list of ingredients. >  Last time I bought the Fenugrek (for cooking) a 2 oz bottle lasted me >20 years – when I threw most of it out, because it was too old.

Fenugreek has a strong and penetrating smell.  While it is typical of what Westerner’s call a curry smell, many curries don’t even include it. >Hyper will kill you slowly – Hypo can kill you fast.  ANYTHING which can >throw you hypo should be approached with extreme caution.  Herb, >supplement, med, diet, exercise.  when talking about lowering BG >BE CAREFUL

Sounds like good advice to me. Best wishes, — Quentin Grady       ^  ^  / New Zealand,       >#,#< [                     / /     "… and the blind dog was leading." http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin

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>This post not CC’d by email >cc’d by email >Stay away from Fenugrek – and all "herbs" and "supplement"

I think that is way too blanket a statement. Some people would think that it is unhealthy to cook with parsley, sage, rosemary, and thyme. Also, I take two different supplements per day. A multi-vitamin, and fish oil. I don’t see anything dangerous about either. Sleepy Support bacteria. They’re the only culture some people have

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This post not CC’d by email >People probably use large quantities of fenugreek in curry powders. >For those that don’t know fenugreek is the spice whose smell has >penetrative powers you can smell it through the shrink wrap on packets >in supermarket curry. >In the category of for what it’s worth: the recipes I have (ok, that I >briefly checked) call for 1 tsp (5ml) in a curry of  servings >MrBill

G’day G’day MrBill,   Thanks.  The number of servings appears to be deleted.   Fenugreek also appears in recipes for a dressing for green beans. Best wishes, — Quentin Grady       ^  ^  / New Zealand,       >#,#< [                     / /     "… and the blind dog was leading." http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin

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As far as I know, the only good use for anything named "wort", is to make beer out of it. Sleepy >Study by a hospital of some 2500 subjects and St John’s wort reported in >today’s LA Times.  Like many other "natural" and "herbal" products, St John’s >wort had an effect on medications including those taken for cholesterol, high >blood pressure, and birth control.   >Whatever you decide about fenugreek or any other herb, CHECK WITH YOUR DOCTOR >ON THE INTERACTION  WITH YOUR MEDICATIONS. >Nan, Type 2

Support bacteria. They’re the only culture some people have

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cc’d by email Well Quenton We are in agreement on a lot of this 1) The stuff appears to affect BG 2) It is extremely difficult to know what you are getting . There is an additional point I would make in regard to many active drugs sold as "herbs" That is that we do not KNOW what the effective agent(s) are, what the effective dosages are, and what the counterindications are, Also, in the US in particular, the FDA has no jurisdiction over "herbs" and "supplements" so they make sure that a package of lettuce contains lettuce, and weighs what it says, and meats cleanliness standards, and… But not "herbal" or "supplement"  They could be selling you ground rat hair, and calling it anything they want. People HAVE died from taking Fenugrek.  As far as I know, only infants, but I have not done exhaustive research. As for curry powder, since it is sold as a food, it IS subject to FDA inspection and standards.  Fenugrek is WAY down the list of ingredients.   Last time I bought the Fenugrek (for cooking) a 2 oz bottle lasted me 20 years – when I threw most of it out, because it was too old. Hyper will kill you slowly – Hypo can kill you fast.  ANYTHING which can throw you hypo should be approached with extreme caution.  Herb, supplement, med, diet, exercise.  when talking about lowering BG BE CAREFUL – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > This post not CC’d by email >cc’d by email >Stay away from Fenugrek – and all "herbs" and "supplement" > G’day G’day Ted, >   Most people recognise and opinion when they see it. >YES, Fenugreek can sometimes drop your BG – DROP, not control.  It can >kill you in a flash. > For three years I have taken Glucon which contains amongst other > things 50 mg of 4:1 extract of fenugreek. (So far no flashes have been > reported in my vicinity  and any reports of my death are greatly > exaggerated. I am not yet looking for a ghost writer. <grin>)   > It doesn’t make a dramatic difference to my blood glucose levels. > When I have stopped and restarted it for some reason there appears to > be a 10% difference. > What would be unwise is experimenting with uncontrolled doses of > fenugreek. >You have no way of knowing what dosage of the active ingredients are in >any of the stuff > Unfortunately one is dependent on the reputation of individual > supplement manufacturers. Some are reliable, some are scum bags. > Legislation has so far been shown to be ineffective in regulating the > industry. >You are probably safe with most curry powders. > People probably use large quantities of fenugreek in curry powders. > For those that don’t know fenugreek is the spice whose smell has > penetrative powers you can smell it through the shrink wrap on packets > in supermarket curry. >>Has anyone heard of Fenugreek Seed and its possible glycemic control >>properties? >>My vitamin store suggests this herb may help control blood sugar levels, >>however, that was the extent of their recommendation. Commets please. >>Thanks >>Charles

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This post not CC’d by email >cc’d by email >Stay away from Fenugrek – and all "herbs" and "supplement"

G’day G’day Ted,   Most people recognise and opinion when they see it. >YES, Fenugreek can sometimes drop your BG – DROP, not control.  It can >kill you in a flash.

For three years I have taken Glucon which contains amongst other things 50 mg of 4:1 extract of fenugreek. (So far no flashes have been reported in my vicinity  and any reports of my death are greatly exaggerated. I am not yet looking for a ghost writer. <grin>)   It doesn’t make a dramatic difference to my blood glucose levels. When I have stopped and restarted it for some reason there appears to be a 10% difference. What would be unwise is experimenting with uncontrolled doses of fenugreek. >You have no way of knowing what dosage of the active ingredients are in >any of the stuff

Unfortunately one is dependent on the reputation of individual supplement manufacturers. Some are reliable, some are scum bags. Legislation has so far been shown to be ineffective in regulating the industry. >You are probably safe with most curry powders.

People probably use large quantities of fenugreek in curry powders. For those that don’t know fenugreek is the spice whose smell has penetrative powers you can smell it through the shrink wrap on packets in supermarket curry. > Has anyone heard of Fenugreek Seed and its possible glycemic control > properties? > My vitamin store suggests this herb may help control blood sugar levels, > however, that was the extent of their recommendation. Commets please. > Thanks > Charles

– Quentin Grady       ^  ^  / New Zealand,       >#,#< [                     / /     "… and the blind dog was leading." http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin

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Study by a hospital of some 2500 subjects and St John’s wort reported in today’s LA Times.  Like many other "natural" and "herbal" products, St John’s wort had an effect on medications including those taken for cholesterol, high blood pressure, and birth control.   Whatever you decide about fenugreek or any other herb, CHECK WITH YOUR DOCTOR ON THE INTERACTION  WITH YOUR MEDICATIONS. Nan, Type 2

Response:

Has anyone heard of Fenugreek Seed and its possible glycemic control properties? My vitamin store suggests this herb may help control blood sugar levels, however, that was the extent of their recommendation. Commets please. Thanks Charles

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It might be helpful, consider the below.  The first is a general survey and the second results of research with t2 folk.  My advice in using anything like this is to consider that there is no silver bullit pill or substance to substitute for the long term exercise, weight control, and control of carbs as the first steps, aided by meds and/or suppliments. http://www.diabetesforum.net/eng_diet_Fenugreek_Seeds.htm http://makeashorterlink.com/?Z3E8329F5 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Has anyone heard of Fenugreek Seed and its possible glycemic control >properties? >My vitamin store suggests this herb may help control blood sugar levels, >however, that was the extent of their recommendation. Commets please. >Thanks >Charles

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cc’d by email Stay away from Fenugrek – and all "herbs" and "supplement" YES, Fenugreek can sometimes drop your BG – DROP, not control.  It can kill you in a flash. You have no way of knowing what dosage of the active ingredients are in any of the stuff You are probably safe with most curry powders. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Has anyone heard of Fenugreek Seed and its possible glycemic control > properties? > My vitamin store suggests this herb may help control blood sugar levels, > however, that was the extent of their recommendation. Commets please. > Thanks > Charles

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> Has anyone heard of Fenugreek Seed and its possible glycemic > control properties? > My vitamin store suggests this herb may help control blood > sugar levels, however, that was the extent of their > recommendation. Commets please. Thanks > Charles

Vitamin Store? BJ

Response:

People are free to use what they want.  I don’t use these uncontrolled products.  When young I had trouble several times listening to the lore. I thought some items worked but when I discontinued them it made no difference. All in my mind. It is you money and your life, so I can not tell you what to do. So many lazy people want your money.  Stay up night figuring a way to get it.  The "biggies" drugs are very costly but you do get something for you money.    Spammers do not care about your health but care about your hard earned money.   A few will be back trying to sell a cure for the problem they cause, then trying to sell your survivors a tombstone for you. A few Docs may be in the same category.                                                Guy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Has anyone heard of Fenugreek Seed and its possible glycemic > control properties? > My vitamin store suggests this herb may help control blood > sugar levels, however, that was the extent of their > recommendation. Commets please. Thanks > Charles >Vitamin Store? BJ

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